DNW's UE Diary

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

I was very much expecting a claim for Christmas but it's not arrived as yet - although I'm still anticipating it on a daily basis.

Try not to think about it, knowing you can contact me direct if they do decide to issue legal proceedings.

Issuing a claim is not necessarily the same thing as winning a claim as PRA discovered went they took me to court and lost

Jo explains this here >

‘“RECONSTITUTED AGREEMENT” – IRREDEEMABLY UNENFORCEABLE”
“UNREDACTED DEEDS OF ASSIGNMENT – NO ASSIGNMENT PROVED”


So, held Recorder Bellamy in PRA Group (UK) Limited v Mayhew at Central London County Court on 22nd March 2017, at the end of a 3 day multi track trial, when dismissing PRA’s claim against our client.


Stale debts sued for on the back of 2 ‘reconstituted’ MBNA credit card agreements (May 1999 and October 2000) were held irredeemably unenforceable under CCA 1974. The evidence of an honest witness was preferred to that of so called “reconstituted agreements”.


After 3 days of close forensic examination of, and legal argument about, evidence and documents from both PRA and MBNA stating that our client’s specific debt had been assigned, the court held that no assignment had been proved.


Efforts, over many months, in earlier cases to force PRA into disclosure of un-redacted deeds and deep and sustained forensic challenge to the provenance of documents needed to prove regulatory compliance, finally drew back the veil. The reality behind bulk debt purchasing was revealed.


This decision shows that just saying an agreement is enforceable and producing a “reconstituted” copy does not prove that it is enforceable. Just saying an agreement has been assigned and producing a notice saying it has been assigned does not prove legal assignment.


Debt purchasers need to provide proof. If that means the pitifully few pence in the pound they pay for stale debts will increase because banks will now have to start keeping original evidence complying with regulatory consumer protection measures, it is hard to imagine many tears being shed, outside the City of London.

Di

[DNW]

Re: DNW's UE Diary

Egg 2

Name - Egg 2
Type of account - Credit Card
Date commenced - Jan 07
Approx balance - £6000
Date last paid - Mar-11 
Arrangement/not paying - No Payment
Status - In Arrears 
Account owner - Lender

Key:
Them
Me
Other

Activity

1. 26/04/2011 Payment overdue
2. 09/05/2011 DD reminder and card stopped
3. 13/06/2011 Contact us to discuss letter
4. 24/06/2011 Contact us to discuss letter
5. 11/07/2011 Contact us to discuss letter
6. 24/07/2011 My letter - request interest freeze and no change in circumstances.
7. 29/07/2011 Letter from Capital Credit Agencies - contact Egg else we'll instruct local agent
8. 17/08/2011 CCA Request sent
9. 30/08/2011 CCA Received and uploaded for Niddy's perusal via secure section
10. 31/08/2011
11. 05/11/11 - Default Notice received. As you're continuing to make token payments, no further action to be taken at this time.
12. 01/04/12 - Ceased token payments.
13. 22/06/12 - Received from BC - Account details of where to make new payments to. (Filed - await further contact)
14. 05/02/14 - Received from Barclaycard - formal demand for payment and sorry we've been reporting inaccurate info to the CRA's.
15. 01/07/17 - Received from Barclaycard - we're transferring your account to Hoist Portfolio who have chosen Robinsonway to act for them. (Filed).
16. 14/08/17 - Received from Barclaycard - NOA to Hoist Portfolio. Robinson Way have been appointed to collect. (Filed)
17. 17/08/17 - Received from Hoist - NOA, Robinson Way have been appointed to collect. (Filed)
18. 17/08/17 - Received from Robinson - Please contact us to agree payment plan else we could refer your account to our solicitors to issue claim. (Filed)
19. 31/08/17 - Received from RW - We want to help you pay off your debt, please contact us. (Filed).
20. 15/09/17 - Received from RW - 25% off your balance if you contact us. (Filed).
21. 04/10/17 - Received from RW - Pre-Legal Assessment. If you do not contact us by 06/10/17 we will be forced to assess your account for litigation.
22. 06/10/17 - Sent CCA request
23. 14/10/17 - Received from RW - Account on hold while we deal with CCA Request
24. 25/11/17 - Received from RW - Not yet heard back from OC - Account on hold while we wait.
25. 11/01/18 - Received from RW - Not yet heard back from OC - Account on hold while we wait.
26. 27/01/18 - Received from RW - here's your CCA, unable to provide varied T&C. You have 30 days to complete financial statement (response expected by 23/02/18)
27. 31/01/18 - Niddy says unenforceable, wait til the 30 days have passed, let them chase the financial statement and then send missing PTs template
28. 21/02/18 - Received from RW - We'd like to agree an affordable payment plan with you, get in touch and we'll help you to find the right solution. (No mention of the financial statement they'd asked to be completed by 23/02).
29. 27/06/18 - Received from RW - it's important for you to get in touch and agree a payment plan (filed)
30. 28/07/18 - Received from RW - We won't ask you to pay more than you can afford
31. 05/08/18 - Received from RW - We'd like to offer a 27% discount for you to settle your account
32. 22/08/18 - Received from RW - pay just 75% of your balance if you pay within 30 days
33. 19/09/18 - Received from Hoist Finance - Hoist Portfolio Holding has assigned all rights to Hoist Finance UK Holdings. Robinson Way will continue to service your account.
34. 31/01/19 - Received from RW - Agree a repayment plan today
35. 04/03/19 - Received from RW - Pay just 60% of your balance
36. 13/09/19 - Received from RW - don't ignore us
37. 11/10/19 - Received from RW - upto 25% discount available
38. 25/01/20 - Received from RW - please contact us
39. 02/12/20 - Received from RW: Discount of 85% available
40. 19/01/21 - Received from Hoist - Welcome to Hoist, let's agree a repayment plan

Update

19/01/21 - Received from Hoist - Welcome to Hoist, let's agree a repayment plan


Considering the last time anything was paid toward this was nearly 9 years ago*, I think I'll file this letter for now - unless anyone suggests otherwise?



*I can't actually believe this has all been part of my life for nearly 10 years, I think a general '10 years later post' will be top of my to-do list soon

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

Update

19/01/21 - Received from Hoist - Welcome to Hoist, let's agree a repayment plan . . . Considering the last time anything was paid toward this was nearly 9 years ago

What I like most in the history of this debt is your CCA Request to Barclaycard in 2011 was viewed as enforceable. You then sent another CCA Request to Hoist in 2017 and that was viewed as unenforceable

Debt purchasers don’t always automatically have access to documentation from the original creditor - I’m pleased to say.

Is that Welcome letter from Hoist from the same Hoist who was assigned the debt in 2017 or could it be a different Hoist as the result of an internal assignment?

Di

[DNW]

Is that Welcome letter from Hoist from the same Hoist who was assigned the debt in 2017 or could it be a different Hoist as the result of an internal assignment?

2017 It went from Barclays to Hoist Portfolio Holding Limited (HPH Ltd).

It's currently assigned to Hoist Finance UK Holdings 1 Limited I think - that was on the 2018 letterhead, and that letter stated it was Hoist Portfolio Holding Limited "HPH" who had assigned the rights to Hoist Finance UK Holdings 1 Limited, and that Hoist Finance UK Ltd had been appointed to manage the account, but that Robinson Way would continue to service the account.

Today's letter was from Hoist Finance UK Ltd.

Who knew they liked to tie us up in knots as to ownership of accounts!

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

Who knew they liked to tie us up in knots as to ownership of accounts!

Yes they do, just like a pretzel

Di

[DNW]

Re: DNW's UE Diary

Egg 1

Name - Egg
Type of account - Credit Card
Date commenced - July 2002
Approx balance - £6,800
Date last paid - Mar-11 
Arrangement/not paying - No Payment
Status - In Arrears 
Account owner - Lender

Key:
Them
Me
Other

Activity

1. 07/04/11 DD Cancelled letter
2. 07/04/11 DD cancelled and payment reminder
3. 12/04/11 Accept £1 token payment and suspend interest and charges for temp period. Default in due course.
4. 26/04/11 DD reminder
5. 20/05/11 Card not to be renewed
6. 09/08/11 Card withdrawn and cancelled
7. 17/08/11 CCA Request sent
8. 27/08/11 CCA received - sent to Niddy via secure section
9. 31/08/11
10. 05/11/11 - Default Notice received. As you're continuing to make token payments, no further action to be taken at this time.
11. 01/04/12 - Ceased token payments.
12. 23/06/12 - Received from BC - Account details of where to make new payments to(filed - await further contact)
13. 05/02/14 - Received from Barclaycard - formal demand for payment and sorry we've been reporting inaccurate info to the CRA's.
14. 01/07/17 - Received from Barclaycard - we're transferring your account to Hoist Portfolio who have chosen Robinsonway to act for them. (Filed).
15. 14/08/17 - Received from Barclaycard - NOA to Hoist Portfolio. Robinson Way have been appointed to collect. (Filed)
16. 17/08/17 - Received from Hoist - NOA, Robinson Way have been appointed to collect. (Filed)
17. 17/08/17 - Received from Robinson - Please contact us to agree payment plan else we could refer your account to our solicitors to issue claim.
18. 31/08/17 - Received from RW - We want to help you pay off your debt, please contact us. (Filed).
19. 15/09/17 - Received from RW - 25% off your balance if you contact us. (Filed).
20. 04/10/17 - Received from RW - Pre-Legal Assessment. If you do not contact us by 06/10/17 we will be forced to assess your account for litigation.
21. 06/10/17 - Sent CCA request
22. 14/10/17 - Received from RW - Account on hold while we deal with CCA Request
23. 25/11/17 - Received from RW - Not yet heard back from OC - Account on hold while we wait.
24. 11/01/18 - Received from RW - Not yet heard back from OC - Account on hold while we wait.
25. 07/02/18 - Received from RW - here's your CCA, unable to provide varied T&C. You have 30 days to complete financial statement (response due by 03/03/18
26. 11/02/18 - Niddy suggested waiting it out and sending missing PTs template when they hassle.
27. 21/02/18 - Received from RW - We'd like to agree an affordable payment plan with you, get in touch and we'll help you to find the right solution. (No mention of the financial statement they'd asked to be completed by 03/03).
28. 19/03/18 - Received from RW - We'd like to agree an affordable payment plan with you, get in touch and we'll help you to find the right solution. (No mention of the financial statement they'd asked to be completed by 03/03).
29. 29/03/18 - Received from RW by email - It's important that you contact us so that we can help you manage your debt.
30. 03/04/18 - Received from RW by email - They're prepared to accept payments that fit my budget, and I won't even have to speak to them on the phone to arrange this.
31. 09/04/18 - Received from RW by email - They've tried to contact me but had no response. I should visit their website to take that first step to financial freedom.
32. 12/06/18 - Received from RW by email - Your account remains unpaid but we want to help you find a solution.
33. 20/06/18 - Received from RW by email - We need you to take action on your account
34. 27/06/18 - Received from RW - it's important for you to get in touch and agree a payment plan (filed)
35. 22/07/18 - Received from RW by email - It's important that you contact us
36. 05/08/18 - Received from RW by email - Doing nothing leaves you at risk of further collections activity.
37. 05/08/18 - Received from RW - We'd like to offer a 37% discount for you to settle your account
38. 12/08/18 - Received from RW by email - Visit our website to set up a payment plan
39. 22/08/18 - Received from RW - pay just 75% of your balance if you pay within 30 days
40. 19/09/18 - Received from Hoist Finance - Hoist Portfolio Holding has assigned all rights to Hoist Finance UK Holdings. Robinson Way will continue to service your account.
41. 16/01/19 - Received from RW by email - Visit our website to set up a payment plan
42. 24/01/19 - Received from RW by email - We need you to take action on your account
43. 25/01/19 - Received from RW by email - We need you to take action on your account
44. 12/03/19 - Received from RW by email - We need you to take action on your account
45. 19/03/19 - Received from RW by email - We need you to take action on your account
46. 2019-now - Still receiving emails but filing without reading
47. 13/09/19 - Received from RW - don't ignore us
48. 02/12/20 - Received from RW: take 83% discount and pay only £1200
49. 01/03/21 - Received from Hoist Finance UK - you may be eligible for a discount
50. 27/03/21 - Received from Hoist Finance UK - you are eligible for a discount

Update[*]27/03/21 - Received from Hoist Finance UK - you are eligible for a discount

I'll file this with the mountain of previous correspondence. I don't think I need to currently send a reply seeing as it's 9 years since I last acknowledged this account with anything other than a CCA request

[nightwatch]

Yes, just file it away, mine too is SB but they do like to keep in touch, who am I to stop them their little bit of enjoyment, expecting a payment on a SB & UE account.

[DNW]

Re: DNW's UE Diary

Barclay Loan

Name - Barclays
Type of account - Loan
Date commenced - July 2009
Approx balance - £15,000
Date last paid - Mar-11 
Arrangement/not paying - Token Payment
Status - Default 
Account owner - DCA (CDCS)

Key:
Them
Me
Other


Activity

1. 05/04/2011 DD Cancelled letter received
2. 11/05/2011 Missed payment letter received
3. 04/06/2011 Two missed payments letter received
4. 15/06/2011 Default notice received from Barlcays
5. 15/06/2011 Refused to accept £1/month offer, debt to be passed to Recovery Dept.
6. 05/07/2011 Arrears notice
7. 23/07/2011 CDCS letter - account has now transferred to them and all comms to be directed to CDCS
8. 01/08/2011 My letter - no change in circumstances, don't phone, don't visit sent to CDCS
9. 17/08/2011 CCA Request sent
10. UPDATE 03/09/11 CCA received and sent to Niddy
11. 03/09/11
12. 10/12/11 - Arrears Notice received
13. 11/10/12 - Arrears Notice received
14. 08/03/13 - Arrears Notice received
15. 01/07/13 - Statement received
16. 12/08/13 - Arrears Notice received
17. 09/01/14 - Arrears Notice received
18. 07/06/14 - Arrears Notice received
19. 01/07/14 - Annual statement received
20. 08/08/14 - Please contact us to arrange further/higher payment (filed)
21. 11/08/14 - We made an error with your interest and are reducing the balance by £0.00
22. 2014-2019 - Only statements & arrears notices received
23. 20/11/19 - Statement received
24. 22/11/19 - We're going to transfer your account to PRA
25. 07/12/19 - NOA - Loan account sold to PRA Group (UK) Limited
26. 07/12/19 - Welcome to PRA Group, carry on making agreed payments but to us now instead of Barclays
27. 05/02/20 - Sent SAR to Barclays
28. 05/02/20 - Stopped token payments
29. 27/02/20 - Received SAR documents
30. 23/09/20 - Received from PRA - 30 days to contact them else they'll consider my account for 'next stage'.
31. 24/10/20 - Received from PRA - Letter before claim
32. 03/12/20 - Received from PRA - Statement of Account
33. 21/05/21 - Received from PRA Group - Notice of arrears
34. 04/06/21 - Received from PRA - Letter before claim

*Update*

04/06/21 - Received from PRA - Letter before claim


Just posting the update - and Di I've dropped you an email

[PlanB]

*Update*

04/06/21 - Received from PRA - Letter before claim


Just posting the update - and Di I've dropped you an email

No surprises there!

Don't stress about the credit agreement being enforceable because that was sent to you by Barclaycard so PRA may not get their hands on the same document.

Email the first couple of pages of the Letter of Claim to jo@joannaconnollysolicitors.co.uk

Di

[DNW]

Email sent and will await replies as and when

[PlanB]

Email sent and will await replies as and when

I can see you stopped the contractual payments in 2011 (and were defaulted) but then it says 'token payments' until 2020?

Di

[The Tech Clerk]

Been paying £1.00 monthly buy any chance????? or another amount? or phantom payments they state you paid (when you have not)??

[DNW]

Barclays never really hassled me, so I kept paying them small payments as it seemed to keep them quiet at a time when I was drowning in other more persistent creditors. So yes, low value payments rather than phantom ones.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing lol.

[PlanB]

Barclays never really hassled me, so I kept paying them small payments as it seemed to keep them quiet at a time

Maybe there was a reason why Barclaycard didn't hassle you, perhaps something wrong with the account? I'm not raising your expectations but there's more to a debt being enforceable other than the credit agreement.

I can see that in February you got a response to your SAR to Barclaycard. Is the credit agreement in that SAR exactly the same as the one as they sent you in 2011 which Niddy said was enforceable?

Was it a recon or a signed application form etc?

Also is there any evidence of a Default Notice being issued or served in June 2011 in that SAR?

Di

[Warwick65]

Hi
I have had a brief read back so may be wrong, please correct me if I am

You have been paying small payments for a while- did you carry on paying PRA?
Barclays defaulted you
You sent Barclays a CCA request and it came back but Niddy said enfirceable
The account was sold to PRA
You have had a letter of claim from PRA (was this from PRA or a firm of solicitors)

So right now it looks like you have a few options

1) Do Nothing- if you do it is highly likely that PRA will issue a claim
2) Send a CCA request to PRA (if the LOC came from solicitors send them a copy - this might slow things up and if they can't comply might stop everything
3) Respond to the letter of Claim by ticking box D (I dispute the claim) and ask for a copy of
The agreement
The default notice
The notice of assignment
The deed of assignment
A full statement of account showing how they arrived at the sum in he letter of claim
Also as in 2 above send a CCA request


Personally I think doing 1) is just silly and will all but guarantee you a claim which then has to be fought in the courts and that comes with no guarantees therefore I would be doing either 2 or 3. In my opinion you need to do everything you can to stay out of court (short of paying)

Who knows will PRA be able to get hold of the agreement - after RBS sold my enforceable agreements to Cabot , they were unable to provide copies of the agreements for some reason

I hope that helps.