SarahSarah Diary: UE and negotiating settlements

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

Any thoughts from anyone on this? In summary, Halifax/BOS never sent me any information following my SAR in 2018. Cabot have never sent me a CCA, nor even a recon and in fact wrote in 2017 that they were still looking but that the debt is currently unenforceable. MC say they sent me copies but I have not received that.

Did Mortimer Clarke’s letter say exactly when they sent you copies?

And if I have understood you correctly Halifax/BOS have not complied with your SAR from 2018 so maybe send them another. Why didn’t they comply with your original SAR - was there a reason (they asked for identification) or was it just silence?

Di

[Warwick65]

Any thoughts from anyone on this? In summary, Halifax/BOS never sent me any information following my SAR in 2018. Cabot have never sent me a CCA, nor even a recon and in fact wrote in 2017 that they were still looking but that the debt is currently unenforceable. MC say they sent me copies but I have not received that.

Can anyone elaborate on what their quoting of the Carey v HSBC case means? I assume that it's not applicable here as my agreement was with Halifax, not Cabot?

As Niddy said Jo was involved with the Carey judgement however, if I have interpreted it correctly what they are saying is that for a CCA request they can 'get away' with a reconstituted agreement (although it should be accurate).

I have to say, I had quite a few accounts with Cabot who wrote saying they were looking for the agreement and would be in touch, that was a long time ago (2012-2014) and in most cases I didn't hear again.

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

. . . . what they are saying is that for a CCA request they can 'get away' with a reconstituted agreement (although it should be accurate).

I have to say, I had quite a few accounts with Cabot who wrote saying they were looking for the agreement and would be in touch, that was a long time ago (2012-2014) and in most cases I didn't hear again.

In fact a recon should be both ‘honest and accurate’ - some debt purchasers struggle with the ‘honesty’ part.

Good news about your Cabot debts which must be Statute Barred by now, or at least most of them

Di

[SarahSarah]

Did Mortimer Clarke’s letter say exactly when they sent you copies?

And if I have understood you correctly Halifax/BOS have not complied with your SAR from 2018 so maybe send them another. Why didn’t they comply with your original SAR - was there a reason (they asked for identification) or was it just silence?

Di

Mortimer Clarke's letter does specify a date they sent the info and in fact, I have only just noticed that they specify that they sent it by email... I have just looked and realised that I didn't actually open it because it's a zipped attachment... Should I?! They sent a password for the zipped file via a second email - I'm guessing they could see if I opened it.

In the hard copy letter dated October, they include a copy of the letter from July but not the supporting documents. Perhaps I should ask them to send me the supporting docs by mail?

In July 2018, Halifax asked for further ID info in relation to the SAR, which I provided. I have heard nothing from them since.

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

Mortimer Clarke's letter does specify a date they sent the info and in fact, I have only just noticed that they specify that they sent it by email... I have just looked and realised that I didn't actually open it because it's a zipped attachment... Should I?! In the hard copy letter dated October, they include a copy of the letter from July but not the supporting documents. Perhaps I should ask them to send me the supporting docs by mail?

In July 2018, Halifax asked for further ID info in relation to the SAR, which I provided. I have heard nothing from them since.

I can’t really advise you whether you should or shouldn’t open a zip folder, buI I know curiosity would always get the better of me

Without knowing the content it’s hard to say whether they have or haven’t complied with your CCA Request.

I would chase Halifax for your SAR in case that sheds any light on this matter.

Di

[SarahSarah]

I can’t really advise you whether you should or shouldn’t open a zip folder, buI I know curiosity would always get the better of me

Without knowing the content it’s hard to say whether they have or haven’t complied with your CCA Request.

I would chase Halifax for your SAR in case that sheds any light on this matter.

Di

OK, I'll write to Halifax again and will write to Mortimer Clarke and ask for copies of their supporting documents by mail. I'm not opening the zip file. I don't want them to default to email and it wastes a bit of time if nothing else.

Thanks Di.

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

OK, I'll write to Halifax again and will write to Mortimer Clarke and ask for copies of their supporting documents by mail. I'm not opening the zip file. I don't want them to default to email and it wastes a bit of time if nothing else.

Thanks Di.

Sounds like a plan.

Mortimer Clarke will either issue a claim or they won’t. I don’t have a crystal ball, but it’s likely so don’t do anything which could harm your chance of success if they do.

Di

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

will write to Mortimer Clarke and ask for copies of their supporting documents by mail. I'm not opening the zip file.

Thanks Di.

Did Mortimer Clarke send you those documents in the post?

Di

[SarahSarah]

Did Mortimer Clarke send you those documents in the post?

Di

Not yet. I did receieve a letter saying "You have not responded, our client is keen to find out your income/ expenditure", which would have been sent out before they received my request.

[SarahSarah]

• Halifax
• Credit card
• Approx 2002
• £1,100
• Last full payment approx Oct 2007. Last DMP payment Jun 18.
• Arrangement via a DMC 2007-2018
• Defaulted. Now dropped off credit file.
• Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd

Mar 08: Default notice from Halifax.
Apr 08: Account passed to Blair, Olivier & Scott Ltd Debt Collectors
Sept 12: Halifax write to advise that "Halifax has assigned all of it's respective rights, title and interest... to Cabot Financial (UK) Ltd. " Later in the letter is states "Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited has been appointed by Cabot Financial (UK) Ltd to manage your account in line with the arrangements agreed with Blair, Oliver & Scott".
Sept 12: Welcome to Cabot letter "The Cabot Credit Management Group has recently bought the account you held with Halifax..."
Aug 13: Cabot offer a partial settlement of around 30%. Said it would be full and final settlement but marked as partially settled. Refused.
Jul 14: Settlement offer from Cabot of around 70%, refused.
Jun 17: My settlement offer of around 30% refused.
Jun 17: Sent CCA request.
Jul 17: We don not have this info (CCA) on file, however we have asked for it.
Sept 17: Letter from Cabot saying they have not been able to provide me with the requested info, credit agreement currently unenforceable.
une 18: Cancelled DMP. Payments no longer being made to this account.
July 18: Sent SAR to BOS (nee Halifax).
July 18: First letter from Cabot after cancelling DMP. Suggesting Step Change. Saying account now on hold for 14 days.
early Aug 18: received a response to SAR asking to sign my original letter. I have signed with a signature different to the one I used in 2002.
September 18: Received a statement of account showing 3 months with zero paid.
May 19: Letter from Cabot saying they have failed to make contact so will instruct "a company called Moorcroft to try to arrange a visit at your home to that they can put you back in touch with us". They go on to say they would rather speak to me within the next 7 days "or you'll receive a visit from Moorcroft".
Jul 19: Letter from Moorcroft saying they may pay me a visit if I don't call to arrange payment. The standard letter.
Jul 19: Letter from Halifax BOS saying they have been unable to find any info, please send DOB, previous address and signature. Which I did.
Aug 19: Letter from Moorcroft saying they will pay me a visit on a specific date. I have sent the harassment / doorstop template letter.
Sept 19: Response from Moorcroft saying they have passed my letter on to their client as liability lies with them. they will not make contact regarding collection of the balance whilst the issue is being investigated.
Nov 19: Letter from Cabot saying "we have been trying to contact you, please fill in this financial summary".
Feb 20: Letter - We are going to appoint Resolvecall to visit you. Call us or expect a visit from them.
Mar 20: Letter - Avoid legal action, you have 21 days. You account will be placed with a solicitor who will send you a letter before action.
Mar 20: Letters - You have 14 days before we commence legal proceedings... Then you now have 7 days...
Apr 20: Letter from Mortimer Clarke saying "Cabot reserves its right to pursue a court claim in the future". Please contact us within 30 days.
Jun 20: Letter Before Claim received from Mortimer Clarke Solicitors. Ticked box D and returned.
Aug 20:Letter from MC - We notice you have not completed income/ expend form, please reply within 10 days. Filed.
Sept 20: Another Letter Before Claim received. Ticked Box D and returned.
Oct 20: Letter from Mortimer Clarke - "We really need to talk to you... we are instructed to issue court proceedings and we recently wrote to you about this but we'd prefer to talk to you." Filed.

Nov 20: Letter from MC - "We note you have indicated you dispute the debt, however you have not clarified why". They then refer to a letter they say they sent in July which I didn't receive. They enclose a copy of the letter which states that is encloses: copy of reconstituted agreement, historic terms, statement of account from original creditor and statement of account from our firm. It also states that "our client is not able to provide a copy of the original credit agreement as well as the following:

"Please be advised that under the FCA Consumer Credit sourcebook at rule 13.1.4, a firm able to reconstitue a copy of the agreement, and there is no obligation to provide a copy which includes a copy of the signature. This was also confirmed in the case of Carey v HSBC Bank PLC (2009) EWHC 3417"

It then details background of the debt, my dispute, their investigation then says that Cabot complied with my requests for a CCA but includes them again (I didn't receive this letter they refer to with these copies). Furthermore the enclosed statement of account shows the numerous payments you have already made towards the debt which we would say is eveidence that you are aware of the debt. (I was paying via a DMP until Jun 18). In conclusion, they say I am liable for the debt and they will hold the debt for a further 21 days, please complete income/expenditure.

Anecdotally, I am now unemployed due to redundancy.

Nov 20: Sent second SAR to Halifax.
Nov 20: Sent MC a letter asking for copies of the supporting documentation they refer to in their letter dated July 20.
Jan 21: Received a response from Halifax, they need me to go to a branch to confirm ID.
Jan 21: Response from Mortimer Clarke with copies of statements back to when the account was opened with Halifax plus TWO reconstituted agreements, covering two different addresses I lived at. Sent these to Niddy who says they look unenforceable as they are recons.

Latest on Mortimer Clarke/ Cabot. Their letter says they are giving me 21 days to complete income/ expend form and provide offer of repayment.

[The Tech Clerk]

do not give them you have no obligation to give information! see what they come up with next

[nightwatch]

"Please be advised that under the FCA Consumer Credit sourcebook at rule 13.1.4, a firm able to reconstitue a copy of the agreement, and there is no obligation to provide a copy which includes a copy of the signature. This was also confirmed in the case of Carey v HSBC Bank PLC (2009) EWHC 3417"

They forget to tell you that, the above quote continues, it is for information purpose's only, BUT the original is needed for the court.
this also means they need to supply the original T&C's, which a lot of them struggle with.

How nice of them to give you 21 day's to fill in the I&E. this must be the new "NORM"

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

Latest on Mortimer Clarke/ Cabot. Their letter says they are giving me 21 days to complete income/ expend form and provide offer of repayment.

Mortimer Clarke have previously sent you two Letters of Claim and a reconstituted credit agreement which Niddy says is unenforceable.

I can’t predict their next move with certainty, but if they issue a claim they may struggle to win their case, especially since Cabot Financial (UK) are not FCA authorised to issue legal proceedings, although that may not stop them from trying.

Await their next move unless they decide not to make another move.

Does their letter say what that intend to do if you don’t dance to their tune in 21 days?

Di

[SarahSarah]

Diana Mayhew “failing which we are instructed to refer this matter to our client for further instruction”...

I’ll wait for that then...!

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

Diana Mayhew “failing which we are instructed to refer this matter to our client for further instruction”...

I’ll wait for that then...!

So they're saying that at this moment in time they do not have Cabot's instructions to issue a claim.

As you say, you'll just have to wait and see.

Di