SarahSarah Diary: UE and negotiating settlements

[nightwatch]

You could try contacting experian, sending a copy of the letter tht says that you didn't comply with the default notice, just say you belive it should have been reported as defaulted then and why are RBS still reporting it as late payment's?

[SarahSarah]

You could try contacting experian, sending a copy of the letter tht says that you didn't comply with the default notice, just say you belive it should have been reported as defaulted then and why are RBS still reporting it as late payment's?

Yeah, think I'll try that. Thank you.

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

Yeah, think I'll try that. Thank you.

Please don't do that.

I'll read back through the history of this debt tomorrow.

At a glance this debt appears to be still with the original creditor (or have I misunderstood?)

If they made a mistake over the Default then they may retrace their legal steps and remedy their mistake if you alert them to the error.

If the debt is subsequently assigned to a debt purchaser, then they (debt purchaser) can't do that retrospectively (remedy the flaw)

This is a £17k debt.

You need to tread carefully. Don't do anything which can potentially harm a county court claim against you.

Any contact with Experian will result in them (Experian) referring the issue to RBS who may well leap into action against you.

Di

[SarahSarah]

Please don't do that.

I'll read back through the history of this debt tomorrow.

At a glance this debt appears to be still with the original creditor (or have I misunderstood?)

If they made a mistake over the Default then they may retrace their legal steps and remedy their mistake if you alert them to the error.

If the debt is subsequently assigned to a debt purchaser, then they (debt purchaser) can't do that retrospectively (remedy the flaw)

This is a £17k debt.

You need to tread carefully. Don't do anything which can potentially harm a county court claim against you.

Any contact with Experian will result in them (Experian) referring the issue to RBS who may well leap into action against you.

Di

Thanks Di. I have only just seen this (I don't seem to get all post notifications) and am not sure if Experian have contacted RBS yet. They had said that the support letters don't refer to the account they have on file. This could be to do with the amalgamation of accounts but Experian doesn't show account number so it's a little confusing. I've just contacted them to ask them to suspend any investigation for now.

And come home to another Moorcroft letter saying they will pay me a visit...

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

Thanks Di. I have only just seen this (I don't seem to get all post notifications) and am not sure if Experian have contacted RBS yet. They had said that the support letters don't refer to the account they have on file. This could be to do with the amalgamation of accounts but Experian doesn't show account number so it's a little confusing. I've just contacted them to ask them to suspend any investigation for now.

Does this mean you have already raised the issue/complaint with Experian who may have alerted RBS to your 'concerns'?

Experian have a duty to do that. They are in effect only a library of information provided by their subscribers (original creditors and subsequent debt purchasers etc)

It's a £17k debt which means you need to be careful not to draw attention to yourself.

RBS can/perhaps will issue a county court claim against you where you will have to argue the default issues in court.

Di

[SarahSarah]

Does this mean you have already raised the issue/complaint with Experian who may have alerted RBS to your 'concerns'?

Experian have a duty to do that. They are in effect only a library of information provided by their subscribers.

It's a £17k debt which means you need to be careful not to draw attention to yourself.

RBS can/perhaps will issue a county court claim against you

Di

I have, yes. Great.

(I've emailed you.)

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

I have, yes.

I can see that you’ve not had a response to your SAR to RBS so maybe chase that.

The information you receive may help you to understand what they did/didn’t do in relation to any Default and when.

Raising a dispute via Experian may delay any intention by RBS to assign the account to a debt purchaser. It’s always easier to negotiate a F&F settlement with debt purchasers because they are likely to have only paid a modest sum for the debt giving them room to manoeuvre in negotiations.

If RBS have made any errors over the Default (such as not serving a valid DN) then they may attempt to fix the flaw. If they assign the account without correcting their mistakes then they will have difficulty being successful in any claim they issue.

Also, you refer to this £17k debt being two "amalgamated" accounts which may be the reason for confusion over the account reference/number. I can't see anything on your thread about the origin of the two accounts and why/when they were amalgamated, but you don't want RBS to undo that (if they can). Again it could be to your advantage if they don't realise what they did.

They may not ever issue a claim (let's hope not), but it's always wise to prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

Di

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

?????

• Royal Bank of Scotland
• Loan
• Jan 2007
• £17K
• Last full payment approx Oct 2007. Negotiated installment paid up to June 18.
• Arrangement via a DMC
• ?? (Was Delinquent, now unsure)
• AIC then Zinc Group Ltd then Moorcroft

Nov 07: Joined a Debt Management Company who negotiated small repayments.
Oct 11: Experian credit report status is "6 payments late". Special Instruction indicator: "Arrangment".
Mar 12: "Formal Notice of intention to file a default and to take court action to recover the debt". DMC then spoke with RBS and told me I was fine for another year. No court action was taken. I don't know if the account was defaulted.
Oct 12: Letter from RBS "... you have failed to comply with the requirements set out in the recent Default Notice/ Termination Notice(s) served against you... We are terminating all banking facilities". I don't know if this means it was actually defaulted.
Nov 12: Letter from RBS saying account details have been passed to AIC (Allied International Credit (UK) Ltd) to act as collection agent.
Dec 12: Intro letter from AIC.
Mar 13: Letter from AIC - early settlement offer with no figure. I did call them but no settlement figure was within reach for me.
During this time I spoke with AIC a few times over the phone to try and get a settlement figure. No luck.
Feb 15: Wrote to RBS to see if there was a chance of settling, they wrote back saying thanks, please deal with AIC.
Jun 17: Wrote to AIC asking for CCA. They responded saying it's RBS responsibility, passed on to them.
Sept 17: Chased AIC for CCA, they say they are still awaiting a response from RBS.
Sept 17: Experian credit report lists this account as "over 6 late payments".
Oct 17: I requested the CCA and received a "True Copy", no signed photocopy.
Jan 18: Wrote to RBS offering settlement. No response.

Jun 18: FOUND AAD! Hallelujah!

June 18: Niddy reckons this one is unenforceable, no signed agreement. They say in their letter they are only obliged to send a true copy - is there a template I can use to ask again? I may fall into an actual faint if this whoppa is UE!

June18: Niddy reckons this one is UE as there is no signed agreement. Is the "Missing prescribed terms" template appropriate here? I'm confused as they refer in their letter to the doc they sent being a "True Copy" and the template asks for a true copy. Pic of letter attached along with a response from RBS saying that AIC will be collecting the debt "on their behalf". Is this a nice way of saying they have sold the debt and no longer have anything to do with it?
Diana Mayhew

Update 30th June 18: Changed from Defaulted to Active. I had this wrong previously, apologies. Thought it had defaulted with all the others.
July 18: Sent SAR to RBOS.
July 18: Letter from AIC asking to call to arrange payment as DM cancelled.
Sept 18: Letter from RBS saying that they have been unable to reach an agreement with me so the account has been passed to Allied International to act as collection agent. Confusing as it's been with Allied for years. On my credit file, this account was delinquent for years, then randomly changed to payments up to date for a few months then went into delinquency again. Is there any detrimental effect (any worse than 72+ months of delinquency!) to this bizarre scoring?
Feb 19: Letter from RBS saying their previous collection agency has failed to agree a management plan with me so it has now been passed to a new collection agent - Zinc Group Ltd.
March 19: Zinc sent a welcome letter.
April 19: Zinc Credit Management wrote to say they will have not choice but to consider legal proceedings if they don't hear from me.
July 19: RBS wrote to say they have now passed the debt on to Moorcroft.
Aug: 19: Intro letter and follow up "we haven't heard from you" letters from Moorcroft. Filed.
Sept 19: Monthly Instalment Offer letter from Moorcroft. Threatening to "recommence collection activity" if no response within 7 days.
Sept 19: Letter from Moorcroft saying they may pay me a visit if I don't call to arrange payment. The standard letter.
Sept 19: Sent the do not visit letter.
Oct 19: Moorcroft have sent a letter saying thank you for confirming you will only communicate in writing, please fill in the attached expenditure form.

Have you had any response from RBS following your complaint (to Experian) about the Default issue on this £17k loan?

Di

[SarahSarah]

Have you had any response from RBS following your complaint (to Experian) about the Default issue on this £17k loan?

Di

Hi Di, they were loan and overdraft. Updated diary below...


?????

• Royal Bank of Scotland
• Loan & Overdraft
• Jan 2007
• £17K
• Last full payment approx Oct 2007. Negotiated installment paid up to June 18.
• Arrangement via a DMC
• 6+ late payments
• AIC then Zinc Group Ltd then Moorcroft

Nov 07: Joined a Debt Management Company who negotiated small repayments.
Oct 11: Experian credit report status is "6 payments late". Special Instruction indicator: "Arrangment".
Mar 12: "Formal Notice of intention to file a default and to take court action to recover the debt". DMC then spoke with RBS and told me I was fine for another year. No court action was taken. I don't know if the account was defaulted.
Oct 12: Letter from RBS "... you have failed to comply with the requirements set out in the recent Default Notice/ Termination Notice(s) served against you... We are terminating all banking facilities". I don't know if this means it was actually defaulted.
Nov 12: Letter from RBS saying account details have been passed to AIC (Allied International Credit (UK) Ltd) to act as collection agent.
Dec 12: Intro letter from AIC.
Mar 13: Letter from AIC - early settlement offer with no figure. I did call them but no settlement figure was within reach for me.
During this time I spoke with AIC a few times over the phone to try and get a settlement figure. No luck.
Feb 15: Wrote to RBS to see if there was a chance of settling, they wrote back saying thanks, please deal with AIC.
Jun 17: Wrote to AIC asking for CCA. They responded saying it's RBS responsibility, passed on to them.
Sept 17: Chased AIC for CCA, they say they are still awaiting a response from RBS.
Sept 17: Experian credit report lists this account as "over 6 late payments".
Oct 17: I requested the CCA and received a "True Copy", no signed photocopy.
Jan 18: Wrote to RBS offering settlement. No response.

Jun 18: FOUND AAD! Hallelujah!

June 18: Niddy reckons this one is unenforceable, no signed agreement. They say in their letter they are only obliged to send a true copy - is there a template I can use to ask again? I may fall into an actual faint if this whoppa is UE!

June18: Niddy reckons this one is UE as there is no signed agreement. Is the "Missing prescribed terms" template appropriate here? I'm confused as they refer in their letter to the doc they sent being a "True Copy" and the template asks for a true copy. Pic of letter attached along with a response from RBS saying that AIC will be collecting the debt "on their behalf". Is this a nice way of saying they have sold the debt and no longer have anything to do with it?
Diana Mayhew

Update 30th June 18: Changed from Defaulted to Active. I had this wrong previously, apologies. Thought it had defaulted with all the others.
July 18: Sent SAR to RBOS.
July 18: Letter from AIC asking to call to arrange payment as DM cancelled.
Sept 18: Letter from RBS saying that they have been unable to reach an agreement with me so the account has been passed to Allied International to act as collection agent. Confusing as it's been with Allied for years. On my credit file, this account was delinquent for years, then randomly changed to payments up to date for a few months then went into delinquency again. Is there any detrimental effect (any worse than 72+ months of delinquency!) to this bizarre scoring?
Feb 19: Letter from RBS saying their previous collection agency has failed to agree a management plan with me so it has now been passed to a new collection agent - Zinc Group Ltd.
March 19: Zinc sent a welcome letter.
April 19: Zinc Credit Management wrote to say they will have not choice but to consider legal proceedings if they don't hear from me.
July 19: RBS wrote to say they have now passed the debt on to Moorcroft.
Aug: 19: Intro letter and follow up "we haven't heard from you" letters from Moorcroft. Filed.
Sept 19: Monthly Instalment Offer letter from Moorcroft. Threatening to "recommence collection activity" if no response within 7 days.
Sept 19: Letter from Moorcroft saying they may pay me a visit if I don't call to arrange payment. The standard letter.
Sept 19: Sent the do not visit letter.
Oct 19: Moorcroft have sent a letter saying thank you for confirming you will only communicate in writing, please fill in the attached expenditure form.
Nov 19: Moorcroft sent an "Our field agent will visit you on this date". I sent another do not visit letter.
Nov 19: Moorcroft visited when I wasn't in.
Nov 19: Sent a letter saying I am still waiting on CCA and SAR.
Nov 19: Moorcroft wrote to say they acknowledge I have raised a query and will not contact me again while it is being investigated.
Nov 19: Moorcroft sent a letter saying they can't provide the SAR, have handed it to RBS. Also suggest giving a reason for the request so RBS can assist me fully.
Dec 19: RBS write re SAR asking for proof of identity and to clarify what info I would like along with account numbers. They've made me wait over a year, so I think I'll make them wait a little... My plan of action is to send ID and ask for everything they have relating to me, they have my address after all. I won't give account numbers.

[The Tech Clerk]

SAR should contain all information they hold not what these people think just this/that the other. A complaint to ICO usually make them jump?

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

Hi Di, they were loan and overdraft. Updated diary below...


?????

• Royal Bank of Scotland
• Loan & Overdraft
• Jan 2007
• £17K
• Last full payment approx Oct 2007. Negotiated installment paid up to June 18.
• Arrangement via a DMC
• 6+ late payments
• AIC then Zinc Group Ltd then Moorcroft

Nov 07: Joined a Debt Management Company who negotiated small repayments.
Oct 11: Experian credit report status is "6 payments late". Special Instruction indicator: "Arrangment".
. . . . .

June 18: Niddy reckons this one is unenforceable, no signed agreement. They say in their letter they are only obliged to send a true copy - is there a template I can use to ask again?
. . . . .

Nov 19: Moorcroft visited when I wasn't in.
Nov 19: Sent a letter saying I am still waiting on CCA and SAR.
Nov 19: Moorcroft wrote to say they acknowledge I have raised a query and will not contact me again while it is being investigated.
Nov 19: Moorcroft sent a letter saying they can't provide the SAR, have handed it to RBS. Also suggest giving a reason for the request so RBS can assist me fully.
Dec 19: RBS write re SAR asking for proof of identity and to clarify what info I would like along with account numbers. They've made me wait over a year, so I think I'll make them wait a little... My plan of action is to send ID and ask for everything they have relating to me, they have my address after all. I won't give account numbers.[/COLOR]

Your update changes things somewhat.

You say this debt totalling £17k was not just a loan, it represents two amalgamated accounts (i.e. a loan and an overdraft). What happened to make you suddenly realise that?

You sent a CCA Request in June 2018. Niddy said the credit agreement they sent you was unenforceable, so I'll guess that was the credit agreement for the loan.

So I'm not sure why you've written to remind them you're still waiting for your s77-79 CCA Request to be fulfilled, because that will only make them take a closer look at things while they carry out their "investigation". This could prompt them to remedy any flaws.

It's always safer to ask on the forum before you send letters.

Since things have changed it may be best not to respond to RBS' letter seeking proof of identity until things become clearer.

A complaint to the ICO will only attract even more attention to this debt, and prevent them from assigning it to a debt purchaser in a potentially flawed state.

(Ideally there should be a separate post for the overdraft history.)

Di

[SarahSarah]

Your update changes things somewhat.

You say this debt totalling £17k was not just a loan, it represents two amalgamated accounts (i.e. a loan and an overdraft). What happened to make you suddenly realise that?

You sent a CCA Request in June 2018. Niddy said the credit agreement they sent you was unenforceable, so I'll guess that was the credit agreement for the loan.

Di

As discussed in my email to Di, I have been reluctant to give every detail as we know these forums are read. My DMC advised me that the debt had been amalgamated into one, and all reference to it has been as one lump sum. I did however get statement of fees (zero) for the the overdraft last month having never had one before. Only the loan is now showing on my credit report.

Re the CCA, you're right, they had already sent an agreement which Niddy has said is unenforceable. I shouldn't have mentioned the CCA, but the SAR went unanswered until I raised it with Moorcroft.

Since the debt is still with RBS, I think what I should wait and see what comes next...? Any advice welcome.

[Sophie Hanlon]

Hi SarahSarah, I'm sure my colleague Di will review and get back to you shortly

[SarahSarah]

?????

• Royal Bank of Scotland
• Loan & Overdraft
• Jan 2007
• £17K
• Last full payment approx Oct 2007. Negotiated installment paid up to June 18.
• Arrangement via a DMC
• 6+ late payments
• AIC then Zinc Group Ltd then Moorcroft

Nov 07: Joined a Debt Management Company who negotiated small repayments.
Oct 11: Experian credit report status is "6 payments late". Special Instruction indicator: "Arrangment".
Mar 12: "Formal Notice of intention to file a default and to take court action to recover the debt". DMC then spoke with RBS and told me I was fine for another year. No court action was taken. I don't know if the account was defaulted.
Oct 12: Letter from RBS "... you have failed to comply with the requirements set out in the recent Default Notice/ Termination Notice(s) served against you... We are terminating all banking facilities". I don't know if this means it was actually defaulted.
Nov 12: Letter from RBS saying account details have been passed to AIC (Allied International Credit (UK) Ltd) to act as collection agent.
Dec 12: Intro letter from AIC.
Mar 13: Letter from AIC - early settlement offer with no figure. I did call them but no settlement figure was within reach for me.
During this time I spoke with AIC a few times over the phone to try and get a settlement figure. No luck.
Feb 15: Wrote to RBS to see if there was a chance of settling, they wrote back saying thanks, please deal with AIC.
Jun 17: Wrote to AIC asking for CCA. They responded saying it's RBS responsibility, passed on to them.
Sept 17: Chased AIC for CCA, they say they are still awaiting a response from RBS.
Sept 17: Experian credit report lists this account as "over 6 late payments".
Oct 17: I requested the CCA and received a "True Copy", no signed photocopy.
Jan 18: Wrote to RBS offering settlement. No response.

Jun 18: FOUND AAD! Hallelujah!

June 18: Niddy reckons this one is unenforceable, no signed agreement. They say in their letter they are only obliged to send a true copy - is there a template I can use to ask again? I may fall into an actual faint if this whoppa is UE!

June18: Niddy reckons this one is UE as there is no signed agreement. Is the "Missing prescribed terms" template appropriate here? I'm confused as they refer in their letter to the doc they sent being a "True Copy" and the template asks for a true copy. Pic of letter attached along with a response from RBS saying that AIC will be collecting the debt "on their behalf". Is this a nice way of saying they have sold the debt and no longer have anything to do with it?
Diana Mayhew

Update 30th June 18: Changed from Defaulted to Active. I had this wrong previously, apologies. Thought it had defaulted with all the others.
July 18: Sent SAR to RBOS.
July 18: Letter from AIC asking to call to arrange payment as DM cancelled.
Sept 18: Letter from RBS saying that they have been unable to reach an agreement with me so the account has been passed to Allied International to act as collection agent. Confusing as it's been with Allied for years. On my credit file, this account was delinquent for years, then randomly changed to payments up to date for a few months then went into delinquency again. Is there any detrimental effect (any worse than 72+ months of delinquency!) to this bizarre scoring?
Feb 19: Letter from RBS saying their previous collection agency has failed to agree a management plan with me so it has now been passed to a new collection agent - Zinc Group Ltd.
March 19: Zinc sent a welcome letter.
April 19: Zinc Credit Management wrote to say they will have not choice but to consider legal proceedings if they don't hear from me.
July 19: RBS wrote to say they have now passed the debt on to Moorcroft.
Aug: 19: Intro letter and follow up "we haven't heard from you" letters from Moorcroft. Filed.
Sept 19: Monthly Instalment Offer letter from Moorcroft. Threatening to "recommence collection activity" if no response within 7 days.
Sept 19: Letter from Moorcroft saying they may pay me a visit if I don't call to arrange payment. The standard letter.
Sept 19: Sent the do not visit letter.
Oct 19: Moorcroft have sent a letter saying thank you for confirming you will only communicate in writing, please fill in the attached expenditure form.
Nov 19: Moorcroft sent an "Our field agent will visit you on this date". I sent another do not visit letter.
Nov 19: Moorcroft visited when I wasn't in.
Nov 19: Sent a letter saying I am still waiting on CCA and SAR.
Nov 19: Moorcroft wrote to say they acknowledge I have raised a query and will not contact me again while it is being investigated.
Nov 19: Moorcroft sent a letter saying they can't provide the SAR, have handed it to RBS. Also suggest giving a reason for the request so RBS can assist me fully.
Dec 19: Statement of fees received for the overdraft account.
Dec 19: RBS write re SAR asking for proof of identity and to clarify what info I would like along with account numbers. They've made me wait over a year, so I think I'll make them wait a little... My plan of action is to send ID and ask for everything they have relating to me at my address. I won't give account numbers.
Jan 20: RBS write and give short deadline to provide proof of ID. I haven't made the deadline so will wait to see what happens.
Jan 20: Moorcroft write to suggest I get in touch to agree a payment schedule. No threats in this round yet.

[SarahSarah]

• Bank Of Scotland then Lloyds TSB
• Credit card
• Approx 2001
• £6k
• Last full payment approx Oct 2007. Negotiated installment paid up to date.
• Arrangement via a DMC
• Defaulted. Now dropped off credit file.
• PRA Group Court Claim Dismissed.

I requested the CCA and this debt was deemed UE by PRA Group. A few months later, I received a signed credit agreement. Not sure if that now makes this enforceable??

update June 18: Niddy has seen the signed agreement and says that this one is enforceable. I’ll try and settle it, any experience with PRA Group anyone??
Update 30 June 18: Cancelled DMP. Payments no longer being made to this account.
July 18: Sent SAR to BOS.
July 18: The calls have started, recording telling me PRA Group are trying to get in touch.
early August: Changed my mobile number.
early Sept: Letter from PRA saying that if I don’t call to set up a payment plan, they may pursue me via the county court. Gave me 14 days to respond, which I haven’t.
October 18: I have now received a Letter Before Claim from PRA Group. It includes the box A-G form and and Income & Expenditure form. I have already sent a CCA to PRA and Niddy believes the agreement to be enforceable. Not sure what my next move should be? Particularly interested in what you have to say Di as I know you know PRA well.
November 18: Di Mayhew has looked at the credit agreement they returned to me and has pointed out a few things that may make it unenforceable. I've responded to PRA with the completed form, ticking box D disputing that I owe the debt. Let's see what they come back with.
Feb 19: PRA sent an agreement which looks to be reconstituted
March 19: Letter from PRA advising they will continue to take this matter to court and issue proceedings in accordance with the Pre Action Protocol within the next 15 days. Diana Mayhew I have sent you copies of both of these letters (Feb & March).
Sept 19: PRA have sent another Letter Before Claim. I have responded saying that I returned their form in October 2018 and my position remains unchanged - I do not intend to return the form again, please do not send further letters.
Sept 19: PRA emailed me (for the first time in a long time to thank me for my complaint, they have started a formal investigation into my concerns. I didn't actually send my letter to a complaints department but I did say I would not hesitate to deal with any "further harrassment".
Oct 19: It's here, PRA have issued a court claim and I have received the form to fill in. Sending to Joanna Connolly Solicitors.
Feb 20: Thanks to the help of Joanna Connolly Solicitors, PRA have dismissed this claim. Thank you Diana Mayhew