Landlord not paying mortgage on property I am renting

[milliesmadmoth]

Re: Landlord not paying mortgage on property I am renting

The letting agent is not grasping tacit relocate, the case handler from Shelter Scotland was good enough to phone Mr Big Boss to explain the law around it and that his tenancy agreement did not include such clause...

Hi MilliesMadMother,

I clarified the tacit relocation issue and underlined the point that your tenancy is not moving onto a ‘month to month’ basis but will relocate for a further six month term. He appeared to grasp this at the end – I think.

He pointed out that in some other cases the lender has actually engaged their agency to collect rent on their behalf after a court decision in their favour and he again said that you would be safe paying rent to him. He said that even in the worst case scenario it was his experience that it would be 2-3 months time before the lender applied successfully to the court for a tenants removal.

He again said he would be willing to help you look for alternatives.

He said he understood your decision to withhold part of the rent till the court date but disagreed that you needed to do this and underlined that you are liable to pay rent whether the lender wins the case or not.

It’s up to you how you proceed from here regarding the rent.

Let’s just wait and see what happens on 22/4/15 and see if the lender gets in touch post court case.

Regards

Shelter Scotland

[milliesmadmoth]

Re: Landlord not paying mortgage on property I am renting

Hi MilliesMadMother,

I clarified the tacit relocation issue and underlined the point that your tenancy is not moving onto a ‘month to month’ basis but will relocate for a further six month term. He appeared to grasp this at the end – I think.

etc.....

Hi Case Handler @ Shelter Scotland

Thanks for doing that for me.

I understand that I am still liable to pay rent but should I be paying it to Letting Agent if the lender has not engaged with his agency. Surely there must be a limbo period until all this is sorted out. I will again on Wednesday 22nd make contact with Solicitor to find out the position or really they should be making contact with me, I have given them my contact details along with making contact with The Mortgage Trust.

Unless the current landlord wins the case on 22nd I don't think I should be continuing to pay Letting Agent until I hear that they are acting as the letting agent.

Surly I have a responsibility to make sure that I am paying the rent to the correct person or I could be liable for double payments.

What are your thoughts on this?

MilliesMadMother

[milliesmadmoth]

Re: Landlord not paying mortgage on property I am renting

The letting agent is not grasping tacit relocate, the case handler from Shelter Scotland was good enough to phone Mr Big Boss to explain the law around it and that his tenancy agreement did not include such clause...

Mr Big Boss

Further to your conversation with case handler at Shelter Scotland this morning on my behalf.

My reason for contacting Shelter Scotland was because I have never been in this situation before and was not clear of my rights as a tenant and for no other reason.

Could you please advise me of the bank details where I have to send my part payment of £315 for April to allow me to make the payment as I previously cancelled my standing order.

Once the case calls at court on 22nd April hopefully things will become clearer and we will be able to move forward in the right direction as to where rent payments have to be made.

I look forward to hearing from you in due course.

MilliesMadMother

[milliesmadmoth]

Re: Landlord not paying mortgage on property I am renting

Mr Big Boss

Further to your conversation with case handler at Shelter Scotland this morning on my behalf.

Etc....

Hi MilliesMadMother

Thank you for your further email and for the clarification- now fully understood.
Shelter are a good organisation in or opinion and do offer sound advice to tenants.

As far as the bank details – these are as follows- sort xxxxxx account xxxxxxxx

Yes we would agree that the situation will be clearer on 22 April once the case is heard. However, all that is really happening on 22 April is that Solicitors on behalf of the lender – Mortgage Trust will be calling for a decree to be granted. One would assume that this will be granted by the court but the property will still be legally owned by the landlord at this stage. It will be another month after this at least before the lender has a right to the heritable property. Slightly complicated but never the less the legal situation as I understand it.

Hopefully the above helps to make the position a little clearer – if not feel free to email again.

Mr Big Boss

[milliesmadmoth]

Re: Landlord not paying mortgage on property I am renting

Hi all at AAD

I have continued to post all the going back and forward between myself, Shelter Scotland and the letting agent in the hope that it helps someone else in the future and gives you all a bit more knowledge in the Scottish law for this as I know you said PlanB that you thought this tacit relocate was too good to be true and to be honest so did I.

Here is the proof in the pudding.... there is a god after all lol

[PlanB]

Re: Landlord not paying mortgage on property I am renting

Here is the proof in the pudding.... there is a god after all lol

There is a God and she's a woman

My inner cynic tells me the only reason the agent wants to collect the rent money on behalf of The Mortgage Trust is so they can charge a management fee. I loath estate agents more than I loathe my ex-husband and that's saying something.

The fact that Mr Big Boss didn't know your legal rights to occupy the property for a further six months when his agency had taken responsibility for actually issuing you with a contract (tenancy agreement) is shocking. The agency is a member of The Property Ombudsman scheme who'll be getting a complaint from you eventually since he has completely mismanaged the situation. What if you'd believed him and packed your bags? The TPO can order compensation if your complaint is upheld.

Here's where you'll make the complaint later http://www.tpos.co.uk/make-complaint-lettings.php

I also see that your Landlord had a duty to register with the local council which monitors private lets. Failing to register is a criminal offence which carries a fine of up to £50k. Call your local council to see if she has registered. I'm in a spiteful mood this morning since you've been treated so badly by her when she let the property knowing she was already in mortgage arrears at that point so the repossession would be inevitable, unless she uses your rent money to pay off those arrears by agreement with the lender.

http://www.cunninghameproperties.co....123184&ShowCat=


Landlord Registration

TUESDAY, 30TH DECEMBER, 2014

Landlord registration is a system that helps councils monitor private landlords and ensure that they are suitable people to let out property. Before any person or agency is registered, the council will have to check that the applicant is a fit and proper person to let property. All private landlords now have an obligation to apply to the local council for registration. If they haven't registered, or haven't applied for registration, it's a criminal offence.

If you are a landlord and you haven't applied to register and you're not exempt from registering you should do so as soon as possible. If the council find out they will contact you and give you a deadline by which you must register.


If you don't register, the council can send you a Rent Penalty Notice (RPN). Renting out property without being registered with the council is a criminal offence and landlords can be fined up to £50,000 if found guilty.

[milliesmadmoth]

Re: Landlord not paying mortgage on property I am renting

Yes we would agree that the situation will be clearer on 22 April once the case is heard. However, all that is really happening on 22 April is that Solicitors on behalf of the lender – Mortgage Trust will be calling for a decree to be granted. One would assume that this will be granted by the court but the property will still be legally owned by the landlord at this stage. It will be another month after this at least before the lender has a right to the heritable property. Slightly complicated but never the less the legal situation as I understand it.

Hi MilliesMadMother

The agent is correct in that the borrower remains the ‘owner’ of the property until it is sold – even after the lender might gain possession.

If a lender has obtained possession, there may still be outstanding issues to consider.

The borrower ceases to be liable for future mortgage payments once the loan has been called up under the Conveyancing and Feudal Reform (Scotland) Act 1970. After that date the loan agreement has been terminated. In the case of a notice of default under the 1970 Act, if the borrower has objected, the loan will remain in force and mortgage payments will still be due until at least the date of a decision on the objection.

In all cases the borrower will remain responsible for the interest on the outstanding balance of the loan until the loan is discharged, that is until payment of the proceeds of sale to the lender. The lender will deduct the amount due in respect of the loan from the proceeds of sale.

The borrower remains the owner of the property until a new purchaser (who buys the property from the lender, following repossession) acquires title to the house. As a result the borrower is liable for the cost of repairs and maintenance of the property up to that point. The lender may arrange for any work to be carried out, but it should do only what is reasonable and necessary, for example, replacing locks and broken windows and cutting the grass. Any charges for maintenance work will be deducted from the proceeds of the sale.

The borrower also remains responsible for the insurance of the property until the sale has been completed.

As for the rent, you will be bound by the terms of your contract as long as it remains in force e.g. until it is brought to an end validly or it is voided by a court. The lender may well seek to collect rent after repossession and might use the existing agent to do this or make alternative arrangements.

I hope this clarifies the position a little.

Regards,

Case Handler, Shelter Scotland

[milliesmadmoth]

Re: Landlord not paying mortgage on property I am renting

As for the rent, you will be bound by the terms of your contract as long as it remains in force e.g. until it is brought to an end validly or it is voided by a court. The lender may well seek to collect rent after repossession and might use the existing agent to do this or make alternative arrangements.

Hi Case Handler, Shelter Scotland

Thanks for this, does that mean I wait until after 22nd April and see where the lender says the money has to be sent?

MilliesMadMother

[milliesmadmoth]

Re: Landlord not paying mortgage on property I am renting

Thanks for this, does that mean I wait until after 22nd April and see where the lender says the money has to be sent?

Hi MilliesMadMother

Essentially , yes. But as I’ve said before, paying the agent will be fine and there won’t be a situation where you are ever paying ‘double’.

Case Handler, Shelter Scotland

[milliesmadmoth]

Re: Landlord not paying mortgage on property I am renting

I also see that your Landlord had a duty to register with the local council which monitors private lets. Failing to register is a criminal offence which carries a fine of up to £50k. Call your local council to see if she has registered.

Landlord Registration

TUESDAY, 30TH DECEMBER, 2014

Landlord registration is a system that helps councils monitor private landlords and ensure that they are suitable people to let out property. Before any person or agency is registered, the council will have to check that the applicant is a fit and proper person to let property. All private landlords now have an obligation to apply to the local council for registration. If they haven't registered, or haven't applied for registration, it's a criminal offence.

If you are a landlord and you haven't applied to register and you're not exempt from registering you should do so as soon as possible. If the council find out they will contact you and give you a deadline by which you must register.


If you don't register, the council can send you a Rent Penalty Notice (RPN). Renting out property without being registered with the council is a criminal offence and landlords can be fined up to £50,000 if found guilty.

Email sent to Licensing Department, Local Council


Hi Licensing Department,

Private Landlords Register Check

I am currently renting a property within your local authority where the Landlord has stopped paying the mortgage and it puts me in the position of eviction.

Could you please advise if this Landlord is on the Council Private Landlords Register.

Landlord: Mrs Landlord
Property Address: House on the hill....

I look forward to hearing from you in due course.

MilliesMadMother

[milliesmadmoth]

Re: Landlord not paying mortgage on property I am renting

paying the agent will be fine and there won’t be a situation where you are ever paying ‘double’.

PlanB

I don't feel comfortable with paying the letting agent my rent money if The Mortgage Trust has not signed them up to act on their behalf.

Where do I stand if I am asking for my rental agreement to tacit relocate but then not paying them the rent.

What are your thoughts and where do I stand. MMM xx

[PlanB]

Re: Landlord not paying mortgage on property I am renting

I don't feel comfortable with paying the letting agent my rent money if The Mortgage Trust has not signed them up to act on their behalf.

Where do I stand if I am asking for my rental agreement to tacit relocate but then not paying them the rent.

What are your thoughts and where do I stand.

From what I can tell the decision over who 'controls' the property will be made on 22nd April and I doubt it will be a retrospective decision i.e. what the Sheriff rules will be in force from that date onwards.

I don't know your Rent Due date but my initial reaction is to only pay the horrid agent rent due up until 22nd April with a letter/email giving your reasons such as legal uncertainty.

My logic is if you want The Mortgage Trust, their solicitors and/or the court to think favourably towards you then don't withhold rent until the court has made it's decision. Part of that decision-making may be based on your willingness and ability to pay rent which will cover the mortgage payments in future.

According to my maths your rent covers the monthly mortgage payment with £120 to spare. That would clear the arrears outstanding in a little over a year. The Sheriff may decide that would be a satisfactory outcome for the time being. In other words if the arrears were to be cleared in a year, the lender hasn't really got much of a problem as long as the rent goes direct from you to the lender.

Your current tenancy agreement doesn't expire until 30th April (have I got that right?) and I thought from what Shelter have told you it will automatically renew for six more months.

I'll read back through your posts to see what else jumps out at me. I work with common sense but I can't guarantee the court will do the same. However they will have discretion so play towards that for your own selfish reasons.

Plan B x

[milliesmadmoth]

Re: Landlord not paying mortgage on property I am renting

From what I can tell the decision over who 'controls' the property will be made on 22nd April and I doubt it will be a retrospective decision i.e. what the Sheriff rules will be in force from that date onwards.

I don't know your Rent Due date but my initial reaction is to only pay the horrid agent rent due up until 22nd April with a letter/email giving your reasons such as legal uncertainty.

My logic is if you want The Mortgage Trust, their solicitors and/or the court to think favourably towards you then don't withhold rent until the court has made it's decision. Part of that decision-making may be based on your willingness and ability to pay rent which will cover the mortgage payments in future.

Your current tenancy agreement doesn't expire until 30th April (have I got that right?) and I thought from what Shelter have told you it will automatically renew for six more months.

Plan B x

My rent due date is 1st of the month

Today I paid £321 which is my April payment up to and including 21st April.

I have already explained my reasoning to Mr Big Boss at the Letting Agent in an email.

[milliesmadmoth]

Re: Landlord not paying mortgage on property I am renting

And to finish my day I also sent this letter


Dear Mortgage Lenders Solicitor...

Re: House on the hill.....

Further to receiving a citation.

I am writing to let you know that I am a tenant at the above address, I have attached a copy of my agreement and believe the tenancy was granted with the lender’s implied permission through the owner’s ‘buy-to-let’ mortgage.

I maybe interested in buying the property for a reasonable price in the future.

I am willing to start making rent payments to the lender if an order for possession is granted in their favour.

I look forward to hearing from you on the above matter.

Yours sincerely

MilliesMadMother

I have just received this response email from the Mortgage Lenders Solicitor


MilliesMadMother

We refer again to your email of 9th April. As you are aware, proceedings have been raised against your landlord and the matter will call in Sheriff Court on 22nd April. We have instructions from our clients to seek Decree for possession at that hearing. Provided we are successful in doing so, our instructions are then to issue you with Notice to Quit which will give you a two month period in which to vacate the property. If you are still resident in the property on expiry of that two month notice period, our instructions will be to raise an action of ejection again you to enable our clients to obtain vacant possession of the property. Our clients are unable to take possession of the property with you as a sitting tenant and are unable to sell the property to you without first marketing it for sale on the open market.

We have also received correspondence from the Letting Agent and have confirmed the above to them by letter.

We are unable to give you any legal advice on this matter and would strongly suggest that you speak to your own Solicitor or seek advice from CAB or a similar advice agency on your position.

Mortgage Lenders Solicitor

[milliesmadmoth]

Re: Landlord not paying mortgage on property I am renting

MilliesMadMother

We refer again to your email of 9th April. As you are aware, proceedings have been raised against your landlord and the matter will call in Sheriff Court on 22nd April. We have instructions from our clients to seek Decree for possession at that hearing. Provided we are successful in doing so, our instructions are then to issue you with Notice to Quit which will give you a two month period in which to vacate the property. If you are still resident in the property on expiry of that two month notice period, our instructions will be to raise an action of ejection again you to enable our clients to obtain vacant possession of the property. Our clients are unable to take possession of the property with you as a sitting tenant and are unable to sell the property to you without first marketing it for sale on the open market.

We have also received correspondence from the Letting Agent and have confirmed the above to them by letter.

We are unable to give you any legal advice on this matter and would strongly suggest that you speak to your own Solicitor or seek advice from CAB or a similar advice agency on your position.

Mortgage Lenders Solicitor

Case Handler, Shelter Scotland

I have just received the attached email from the Lenders solicitor.

Where does my tacit relocate 6 months come into it?

MilliesMadMother