Yay more Fun - Housing Association Rental Repossession

[PlanB]

Re: Yay more Fun

Time i think for them to start backing down and dealing with the problems at hand here and now . . . .

Also as a neat little entry i told them until court settles things i am withholding the HB shortfall and placing it into a savings account until the time the courts decide on the matter.

Is it wise to withhold the HB shortfall since the HA has issued you with both a section 21 Notice (because your fixed term tenancy agreement has expired) and a section 8 Notice (because you have rent arrears)

I'm not familiar with criminal law but I do know that someone is innocent until proven otherwise so the county court dealing with your repossession (if the HA issue proceedings as threatened by their solicitor) may/may not see your potential legal argument with a third party (your neighbour who has yet to be proven guilty) as good enough reason to stop the repossession for rent arrears with your Landlord. Perhaps you would have to prove that in some way the Landlord was responsible and failed to control your neighbour and you could counterclaim for damages

The spat with your neighbour could destroy the HA's argument over your own conduct but it won't make any difference to the rent arrears especially if you are seen to be deliberately withholding what you contractually owe under your tenancy agreement but not claiming financial hardship as a reason for non payment You can withhold rent to counter disrepair, but I'm not aware you can withhold rent due to your neighbour's actions.

[kilasuit]

Re: Yay more Fun

I am only withholding the shortfall due to them not looking into my complaint properly about how the rent arrears came to be as they used the excuse that a court can deal with it.

my argument has been from the beginning that the rent arrears were down to their incompetence of resetting up a direct debit after an error they created

but they are denying i asked for it to be setup

[cymruambyth]

Re: Yay more Fun

Problem is you do not want to be evicted and as PlanB has said this makes your position weaker. Do you have any evidence to support 'your claim' that you had this conversation because I think that will be their argument.

[kilasuit]

Re: Yay more Fun

I was paying rent via DD fortnightly on a thursday so it was being paid week 1 and week 3 however something messed up and i caught it (thanks to HSBC) on the weds of week 2.

I rang them up and specifically told them that they needed to cancel it and reinstate it for the following week. the response i got from them was yes we will do that.

Next week i was working stupid hours again so wasnt as meticulous as usual at checking my account so didnt notice that it hadnt been taken or set up.

this was beginning of april

then beginning of may i get sent home from work and then on 12th found out my granddad passed away. and then on 21st was "sacked"

so to me if they had set things up properly they would have had thier payments but due to their incompetance they didnt

[PlanB]

Re: Yay more Fun

I am only withholding the shortfall due to them not looking into my complaint properly about how the rent arrears came to be as they used the excuse that a court can deal with it.

my argument has been from the beginning that the rent arrears were down to their incompetence of resetting up a direct debit after an error they created

but they are denying i asked for it to be setup

The questions the DJ will be asking at your repossession hearing are:

1. Do you owe any rent or not under the terms of your tenancy agreement ? If this answer is "Yes" the Landlord can seek possession under section 8.

2. Do you have good reason to withhold any rent or not ?

3. Is there anything in the tenancy agreement which stipulates how the rent should be paid by the tenant (you) or collected by the Landlord (HA) and has that clause (if any) been breached by either party ?

4. Do question 1 - 3 even matter when you're on a fixed term contract which has expired, so under section 21 the Landlord can seek possession even if you've overpaid your rent, because it's a 'no fault' legal right for the owner of a property to have it back at the end of the fixed term

I could post up various bits of legislation if that would help, because I don't want to lull you into the false sense of security that section 21 can be defended

You may be able to fight your eviction under the Human Rights Act see Paul's post:

http://forums.all-about-debt.co.uk/s...2&postcount=19

If it was me I'd carry on paying every single penny of the rent which has been paid to you by HB because I'm not sure you're allowed to put it in a deposit account instead of handing it over to your Landlord

[cymruambyth]

Re: Yay more Fun

Thanks again PlanB. I don't know anything about this. I was trying to put forward an argument that the HA could use. If you show ability and good intention you have a much stronger position in court, or in any application to live elsewhere , plus you could fight the intentionally homeless argument from the council.

[PlanB]

Re: Yay more Fun

T I was trying to put forward an argument that the HA could use. If you show ability and good intention you have a much stronger position in court, or in any application to live elsewhere , plus you could fight the intentionally homeless argument from the council.

You're right Cym, the Housing Association can indeed put forward that argument as we all know everything in court has to be backed up by evidence laid by a paper trail and not something said on the phone in an unrecorded call which the other party can deny

But the more important issue here is whether a minor admin error which was subsequently rectified will even matter in the grander scheme of things

[PlanB]

Re: Yay more Fun

I rang them up and specifically told them that they needed to cancel it and reinstate it for the following week. the response i got from them was yes we will do that.

Next week i was working stupid hours again so wasnt as meticulous as usual at checking my account so didnt notice that it hadnt been taken or set up.

. . . . . so to me if they had set things up properly they would have had thier payments but due to their incompetance they didnt

I'm probably being a bit stupid here but the HA wouldn't have needed to cancel your DD and then reinstate it, they could simply suspend collection for that week, and then they could collect the rent again under the same DD the following week by agreement with you over the phone.

Maybe you cancelled it your end, and asked them to set-up a new one If that was the case then you (not them) were responsible for stopping the payments because you cancelled the DD (if you did that is). If you asked them to set up a new one and they didn't you may be able to argue it was their responsibility to do this.

But if your rent was getting into arrears over a long period of time because of the bank DD misunderstanding I'd be very surprised if you weren't being sent letters warning you about it during the weeks that followed. HAs are pretty quick to churn out those rent arrears' template letters, and if that did happen then the HA can argue that they notified you of the problem and it was on your head to put it right.

[kilasuit]

Re: Yay more Fun

The HB is paid directly to them but due to a HB overpayment there is £15 a week shortfall. Its this shortfall that i'm withholding.

I was advised by their team that deal with the DDs that they needed me to cancel it my end as well just to make sure that it wasnt collected seeing as it was to be collected on the next working day. PLus i didnt find out until around 3:30 in the afternoon and that left me little time to do much else.

I quite clearly expressed my disdain that i had to jump through hoops due to thier error and that they needed to have a new DD set up for the correct week.

[PlanB]

Re: Yay more Fun

The HB is paid directly to them but due to a HB overpayment there is £15 a week shortfall. Its this shortfall that i'm withholding.

So HB are deducting £15 per week off your current benefit (which is now being paid direct to the HA) because there was an overpayment made in the past. Was that overpayment paid direct to the HA or direct to you?

The HA need you to make up the £15 shortfall each week because it is genuinely due under the terms of your tenancy agreement or it will be considered as rent arrears and a legal reason for them to seek possession of your home. I really don't see how withholding it can benefit your positon.

Presumably the amount of your ongoing HB entitlement is under review anyway due to your partner starting her paid apprenticeship. Maybe while there are outstanding issues with your Housing Benefit assessment the HA will be more lenient and give you time to sort the arrears.

But my advice would be to enter into a formal aggreement to pay off the arrears if you've got the money, because a court would definitely take notice of that at any repossession hearing

[kilasuit]

Re: Yay more Fun

Well looks like more fun around the corner.

looks like will be in court on October 18th for this happenings.

Looking thorugh the claimants statement of truth they say that apparently i am working.


Fault 1 there.

It is being made on the ground of rent arrears.

Looks like CAB time for me now.

[PlanB]

Re: Yay more Fun

Well looks like more fun around the corner.

looks like will be in court on October 18th for this happenings.

Looking thorugh the claimants statement of truth they say that apparently i am working.


Fault 1 there.

It is being made on the ground of rent arrears.

Looks like CAB time for me now.

So the HA's solicitors have finally issued the possession proceedings

If they're seeking possession on the grounds of rent arrears this could have a negative impact on your ability to get re-housed because you could be seen as *intentionally homeless* especially if you've willfully withheld payment of any of those arrears because this will go against you in court (where DJs do have descretion to be kind if they want) and with the council housing team (which has no statutory duty to provide a home for someone who is deemed to have caused they're own problems)

It would have been better if they had pursued you under the section 21 Notice which would mean you had to get out of the property because the Landlord required it back. Under those circumstances you should qualify for re-housing.

Are you in a position to pay some if not all of those arrears before the hearing on 18th October because if so then just do it I can't put that in any other way unless you want to find yourself, your partner and your small child out on the streets even though it could take 3 months for the legal process to complete.

Get to the CAB quick and see whether it's not to late to do a deal with the HA whereby you agree to pay the arrears and they re-issue proceedings under section 21 (i.e. because they want and are entitled to have their property back).

Let us know what happens next but don't leave it too late to get professional help

[kilasuit]

Re: Yay more Fun

So the HA's solicitors have finally issued the possession proceedings

If they're seeking possession on the grounds of rent arrears this could have a negative impact on your ability to get re-housed because you could be seen as *intentionally homeless* especially if you've willfully withheld payment of any of those arrears because this will go against you in court (where DJs do have descretion to be kind if they want) and with the council housing team (which has no statutory duty to provide a home for someone who is deemed to have caused they're own problems)

It would have been better if they had pursued you under the section 21 Notice which would mean you had to get out of the property because the Landlord required it back. Under those circumstances you should qualify for re-housing.

Are you in a position to pay some if not all of those arrears before the hearing on 18th October because if so then just do it I can't put that in any other way unless you want to find yourself, your partner and your small child out on the streets even though it could take 3 months for the legal process to complete.

Get to the CAB quick and see whether it's not to late to do a deal with the HA whereby you argree to pay the arrears and they re-issue proceedings under section 21 (i.e. because they want and are entitled to have their property back).

Let us know what happens next but don't leave it too late to get professional help

But i've disputed the amount of arrears and how it came to be.

If they had set up DD when i requested it then they would have had rent paid from april until May 21st so looking at least £484 paid that is counted towards the arrears amount.

There is possiblity to pay some of it but nowhere near the amount it is now at which i actually dont know how much that is.

Missus gets paid on thurs but only like £200 and i've put £100 away towards the arrears with £15 a week out of our CTC goin to the same account (with Local Credit Union) each weds.

My arguement has been from the start that my DD was set up for pay day so was always paid and therefore always would have been. It was their computer/human error that forced the DD to become misaligned with my payday so its thier error.

If i had let it be paid i'd have paid at least £100 In overdraft fees which i feel is unreasonable and unfair due to their error.

I feel i did the right thing but i know they wont see that. Its their fault they shoudl pay for it and as i've suggested to them as a starting point for bartering, 4 weeks rent i feel is reasonable. I expect that it would be 1 payment which would be 2 weeks that would be agreed and that would drastically diminish RA's

I need to ring Tax credits and confirm that they are paying us right amount as well as Council for HB and also Discretionary Housing Payment advice too.

[PlanB]

Re: Yay more Fun

I feel i did the right thing but i know they wont see that. Its their fault they shoudl pay for it and as i've suggested to them as a starting point for bartering, 4 weeks rent i feel is reasonable. I expect that it would be 1 payment which would be 2 weeks that would be agreed and that would drastically diminish RA's

I need to ring Tax credits and confirm that they are paying us right amount as well as Council for HB and also Discretionary Housing Payment advice too.

You've got a month to reach a settlement before the court hearing so no need to panic or pack your bags just yet

We've all learnt the hard way that law and justice aren't always the same thing which means you need to do a deal with the HA if you want to keep the roof over your head. If you enter into a formal agreement to clear the arrears then you stand a good chance of getting the HA to agree to stay those proceedings That'll do for starters. I doubt they'll want to withdraw the proceedings because they'll want to keep you on your toes in case you stop paying.

[kilasuit]

Re: Yay more Fun

You've got a month to reach a settlement before the court hearing so no need to panic or pack your bags just yet

We've all learnt the hard way that law and justice aren't always the same thing which means you need to do a deal with the HA if you want to keep the roof over your head. If you enter into a formal agreement to clear the arrears then you stand a good chance of getting the HA to agree to stay those proceedings That'll do for starters. I doubt they'll want to withdraw the proceedings because they'll want to keep you on your toes in case you stop paying.

From the complaint i had raised i cant see them coming to any agreement in slightest.

I do think it will be settled with the courts especially seeing as we dislike living where we are due to it being a small flat and lots of Community issues.

We need a 2/3 bed house really with a garden for our now 3 yr old son (3 sat just gone) otherwise we are basically tripping over each other.

Cant Private rent in our area until i'm working again but doubt i'd pass the credit checks now.

I just cant see how its fair that we can be pushed out of social housing bcos of a bellend thats paying a mortgage instead of us paying rent.