Yay more Fun - Housing Association Rental Repossession

[The Tech Clerk]

Re: Yay more Fun

That makes sense. I wasn't meaning to sound accusatory I was hoping to be helpful so that you don't get wrongfooted by the DJ at the hearing In which case you should give some thought to your potential answer to this possible question from the DJ: "If you've got £3,500.00 in your bank account why haven't you paid off these rent arrears?"

The court has to be seen to be even-handed to both the Claimant and the Defendant and you may well get asked some tricky questions so rehearse these before the day when you'll be feeling nervous

Taking a big chance there?? as above!

[kilasuit]

Re: Yay more Fun

I will have to concur 100% with the above, you have posted the printout from your bank account showing the £3.5k, so you can't really say your account has just £0 because it would be a lie. You may well have spent some of the £3.5k on essentials, utilities, etc. but if so you will have to be prepared to elaborate rather than just saying £0. Also rent arrears are a priority debt, so you'll have to explain why you haven't paid those when you've got that money in your account.

In view of the above, the question of why you would like to pay the arrears in £20 installments could also arise. I can understand that, if you were going to get evicted anyway, you'd probably pay in installments rather than a lump sum. If you moved out of that property that debt would move down the ladder and would no longer be a priority. However, for now, the arrears ARE a priority and you'll have to come up with a good answer to the question as why you haven't paid them/don't want to pay them in a lump sum.

The DD glitches and errors are all well and good as an explanation as to how the arrears came to be in the first place, especially with HB paid directly to the HA, however, they do not explain why you still haven't paid them.

One thing to bear in mind is that, whilst debt, arrears and repossession are all civil matters, any attempt to lie to, or mislead the court, could constitute a criminal offence!

In regards to not paying them we have the court date imminent and also if we had to go down Private rent we'd need to pay the 6months up front as things stand so that would be (6 x 500 = £3000) plus the deposit too.

I think that is a reasonable reason not to have paid them yet and also to be wanting to pay them in installments if we are given a possession order etc.

Everything i say or do at this point equals risk risk risk.

So even though its a priority debt as things stand if we were given a suspended possession order or such until that point it is just another debt.

Like now i could in theory pay off the RA's and Utilities arrears too but that leaves us looking like being in a ditch.

My hopes are that HA sees that i'm defending and attempt to gauge an acceptable to both parties offer that consists of me paying RA's and them giving us a further 6 month starter tenancy (not that they will - almost guaranteed )

[PlanB]

Re: Yay more Fun

In regards to not paying them we have the court date imminent and also if we had to go down Private rent we'd need to pay the 6months up front as things stand so that would be (6 x 500 = £3000) plus the deposit too.

I think that is a reasonable reason not to have paid them yet and also to be wanting to pay them in installments if we are given a possession order etc.

Everything i say or do at this point equals risk risk risk.

So even though its a priority debt as things stand if we were given a suspended possession order or such until that point it is just another debt.

Like now i could in theory pay off the RA's and Utilities arrears too but that leaves us looking like being in a ditch.

My hopes are that HA sees that i'm defending and attempt to gauge an acceptable to both parties offer that consists of me paying RA's and them giving us a further 6 month starter tenancy (not that they will - almost guaranteed )

That's a very logical answer and one which a DJ may well understand

So consider whether that should be spelt out in your WS for the judge and the Claimant to read before the hearing starts. You would be telling the court that you now have the funds to pay the rent arrears (from the unexpected unfair dismissal payout which came after these proceedings had been issued), but fear that if you do pay them you'd have no money left to pay your rent elsewhere if you get your home repossessed and your family is evicted and made homeless Maybe even say that if the Claimant were to consider granting you a new Starter Tenancy then you would be willing to pay all the arrears within 14 days of the hearing.

You could even ask for an adjournment of the hearing or an indefinite stay of the proceedings (with conditions) to give you time to honour this commitment. Some DJ's love to adjourn (delegate responsibility back to the HA) and the Claimant would not look good if they refused your offer since they are meant to be acting like a social landlord

[kilasuit]

Re: Yay more Fun

That's a very logical answer and one which a DJ may well understand

So consider whether that should be spelt out in your WS for the judge and the Claimant to read before the hearing starts. You would be telling the court that you now have the funds to pay the rent arrears (from the unexpected unfair dismissal payout), but fear that if you do pay them you'd have no money left to pay your rent elsewhere if you get your home repossessed and your family is evicted and made homeless Maybe even say that if the Claimant were to consider granting you a new Starter Tenancy then you would be willing to pay all the arrears within 14 days of the hearing.

You could even ask for an adjournment of the hearing or an indefinite stay of the proceedings to give you time to honour this commitment. Some DJ's love to adjourn (delegate responsibility back to the HA) and the Claimant would not look good if they refused your offer since they are meant to be acting ike a social landlord

thing is i could even make the payment there and then as after almost 3 months of arguments in the compliant i got their details to pay via SO this was again ignored on a few occasions.

If things went how i'd like them to then we'd be replaced on the housing register as to be able to bid for other properties with other HAs in our area but not given a definitave time in which we'd be made to leave.

Ie on our terms.


my biggest gripe is that this last year has been a waste of time if this all goes pear-shaped.

When we moved i researched the Right to Buy/Acquire and this time is able to be used towards the 5 years rule. If DJ gives them possession then we may as well have been in a private rental the whole time.
Heck looks like we will be renting rest of our lives at this rate.

[PlanB]

Re: Yay more Fun

If things went how i'd like them to then we'd be replaced on the housing register as to be able to bid for other properties with other HAs in our area but not given a definitave time in which we'd be made to leave.

Well then tell them that

You may not be placed on the housing register if you have rent arrears, and I'm fairly certain you won't if you get repossessed for rent arrears (back to the *intentionally homeless* thing)

Maybe leaving your departure date open-ended won't tempt the HA if you say they really want you out, so why not set a mutually agreeable date in the diary of (say) six months time

The HA is not seeking possession on the grounds of your conduct so next week's battle is really all about the money. If you haven't got any arrears then the Claimant will have to tell the court why they want possession and saying "we don't like him" isn't necessarily a good enough reason

[kilasuit]

Re: Yay more Fun

Its as simple as renting is dead money.

i'd rather pay a mortgage and own my property than be paying rent all my life.

My original plans have been somewhat delayed by almost 3 years and as such any more lost time equals yet more headaches.

the difference between being in Private and social housing is the difference in rents payable is ridiculous like difference of at least £40 a week

Heck if Private landlords lowered their rent (in this area at least) then even with the maximum in HB we would still be lookin at a shortfall of at least £7 a week and thats based on £107.31 a week in HB and the rent being £500pcm.
NO matter what we will never in Private rentals be able to save enough to get a sizeable deposit unless i can get a well paid job which without many qualifications is very unlikely.

At least in a Social rental we could have the chance to start saving for a deposit.

[PlanB]

Re: Yay more Fun

At least in a Social rental we could have the chance to start saving for a deposit.

I'm not sure that's the reason social housing exists. It's supposed to be a safety net for people on low or no income with multiple problems who would be homeless without state intervention. It's not somewhere to park yourself cheaply while you save up to buy a place of your own having taken advantage of low rent subsidised by taxpayers like me

Oh dear, I hope I'm not being too outspoken here

[kilasuit]

Re: Yay more Fun

I'm not sure that's the reason social housing exists. It's supposed to be a safety net for people on low or no income with multiple problems who would be homeless without state intervention. It's not somewhere to park yourself cheaply while you save up to buy a place of your own having taken advantage of rent subsidised by tax payers like me

Oh dear, I hope I'm not being too outspoken here

What would the definition of low income be??

Seeing as all the local estate agents request that you have an available income (not including Tax Credits or HB or CB) to be at least 2.5 x rent then i'd need to be earning 1250 a month (after tax) to be able to get housed in a private rental here.

which means i'd roughly need an income of around 19k to be able to rent here. Or inc missus apprenticeship of just under 5k id need to earn 15k.

Unfortunately theres nothing like that here. So would you not deem that as being deemed homeless without State intervention?

[kilasuit]

Re: Yay more Fun

rent subsidised by tax payers like me

Oh dear, I hope I'm not being too outspoken here

Remember i've been one too since 16 and rented since 16 too.

the system is flawed to the max. and all it does is punish punish punish.
unless of course you just dont pay any tax at all.

then your fine aint ya.

[kilasuit]

Re: Yay more Fun

One thing to bear in mind here is that if you are not regarded as homeless, you won't be rehoused. If you go and find a private tenancy then you'll very likely be renting privately for the foreseeable future and if you are not always employed could have a HB shortfall to deal with as well.

If they HA evicts you, the council will have to rehouse you because you have a small child. But they will only do this if you have no other place to stay. However, having rent arrears won't help you here.

You really need to weigh up all the options, if you chose not to pay the arrears and put £3k towards renting a private place instead, you will have to stay in private. If you pay the arrears you could arrange to stay longer in your current flat or, failing that, get evicted and very likely rehoused. It's a decision you have to make before the 18th!

this is where i am trying to get the likely hood of what the council would decide on whether it would be intentional or non-intentional.

If only there was a simple calculator to work it out ehh

[PlanB]

Re: Yay more Fun

this is where i am trying to get the likely hood of what the council would decide on whether it would be intentional or non-intentional.

If only there was a simple calculator to work it out ehh

It seems to me that your priority is to do whatever you can to prevent being repossessed in court next week for the sake of your family. And if that means paying £700 to clear your rent arrears from your McDees £3.5k unexpected payout then I would urge you to do that. You'll still have £2.8k left to play with even after that

You've got a good sob story for the court:

you were unfairly dismissed from your job

you got into arrears when HB was slow to pay (they always are and DJs accept that) and there was a mix-up over the DD

since the possession proceedings were issued you have fought hard to get an unfair dismissal payout which you have/have not* (*delete accordingly) used to clear your arrears so everything is back on track

you have several job interviews in the pipeline and your missus has started an apprenticeship with good prospects for the future

your little boy is settled in his home and has friends locally, if he is uprooted it will badly affect his happiness and wellbeing (Does he go to a local playgroup or nursery?)

your/her Mother helps with childcare which will be essential when you return to work soon, and if you're forced to move then you can no longer rely on this support and the world will fall in on this happy settled family unit

^^^^ that all sounds so much better than "I won't pay the HA wankers a penny towards my rent arrears because I want to keep my McDees' windfall to buy a car and/or put it in a savings account towards buying a property and/or move into a much nicer private rented property".

Because if the DJ sees you've got enough money to live elsewhere then he'll see no reason to dismiss the Claimant's request for a possession order will he


Do you see what I'm trying to say

[PlanB]

Re: Yay more Fun

Heck if Private landlords lowered their rent (in this area at least) then even with the maximum in HB we would still be lookin at a shortfall of at least £7 a week and thats based on £107.31 a week in HB and the rent being £500pcm.

I'm a private Landlord and if I lowered the rent how would I be able to pay the mortgage on the property or eat That would be like asking you to take a pay cut at McDees so the chain could give away free burgers to starving people in the Third World Everyone has to make a living.

If you have enough for a deposit and the first month's rent then you should be accepted into the private rental sector with no problem if the Landlord accepts HB tenants. Loads of them do. This went wrong when the system changed from paying HB direct to Landlords to this silly "empowering" Housing Allowance scheme where the money goes direct to the Tenant who all too often doesn't pass it on to the Landlord The result was that some Landlords boycotted HB Tenants.

Being in arrears with your current HA and therefore getting repossessed from your current home should not prevent your entitlement to claim HB on a private rental. It only impacts on your statutory entitlement to social housing if you have been been made *intentionally homeless* for withholding any rent which you can afford to pay.

[PlanB]

Re: Yay more Fun

It's always the Government's fault

I'm appalled at the number of homeless families in London who are being re-housed "outside of the area" even though their friends and families all live nearby. In other words bussed out of town to rundown parts of the Midlands where they know no one, which then creates social ghettos away from sight of the rich locals (and voters). These are mostly families where English is not their first language

In most boroughs you can't have your HB paid direct to the Landlord unless you're at least 8 weeks in arrears unless it's social housing which is presumably why Kilasuit's rent is now being paid direct to his HA. A private Landlord may take him on knowing he's on benefits if he is able to pay the first two months' rent upfront to cover for any delay in processing a HB claim

[The Tech Clerk]

Re: Yay more Fun

It's always the Government's fault

I'm appalled at the number of homeless families in London who are being re-housed "outside of the area" even though their friends and families all live nearby. In other words bussed out of town to rundown parts of the Midlands where they know no one, which then creates social ghettos away from sight of the rich locals (and voters). These are mostly families where English is not their first language

In most boroughs you can't have your HB paid direct to the Landlord unless you're at least 8 weeks in arrears unless it's social housing which is presumably why Kilasuit's rent is now being paid direct to his HA. A private Landlord may take him on knowing he's on benefits if he is able to pay the first two months' rent upfront to cover for any delay in processing a HB claim

Nothing new there, they were doing that years ago then paying local councils for re-housing them, then locals still await housing.

[PlanB]

Re: Yay more Fun

As most of today's landlords have a mortgage, . . . .

HB can still be paid directly to the landlord (Kilasuit's has been paid directly to the HA). Prejudice plays a big part, many landlords don't want 'DSS' tenants because they think they are all hooligans who will wreck the place.

All But-To-Let mortgages have a standard clause which prevents the Landlord from taking "DSS" tenants whether they're willing or not because the lenders know it's harder to evict Tenants on HB.

If a BTL borrower falls behind with their mortgage payments there are no possession proceedings because the lender can simply take the property into receivership after two months' arrears. There is no hearing it's just seized by the lender because BTL loans are non-regulated products.

After that the tenant has to pay their rent direct to the lender or its managing agent who will subsequently evict them at the end of their AST in order to sell/auction the property. If the Landlord takes a DSS Tenant then they will have broken the terms of their mortgage and the property can be taken into receivership for that too

There's probably prejudice in there too, but mostly it's about Ts & Cs which forbid Landlords from allowing "DSS" Tenants living in the property