Child Support Agency 2003 scheme Child Maintenance new scheme for cases after 25th Nov 2013

[Inca]

Re: Child Support Agency 2003 scheme Child Maintenance new scheme for cases after 25th Nov 2013

The very best thing your son can go into the Tribunal with is the truth..plain and simple.
Cutting corners,leaving out salient facts because they don't 'sound good' is only going to tie him up in knots and if the Tribunal get the slightest whiff of a lie,they'll be right on it,especially given what the Tribunal is about.

To be blunt..'feelings' have no place where this matter is concerned. He is 50% responsible for the child as is she..and as they cannot be amicable regarding the financial side of bringing their child up they have allowed strangers to make the decisions for them..and they must abide by those decisions whether they agree with them or not..Let's put it this way..one of them is not going to like the outcome,she won't if she gets less than she thinks she should,he won't if she gets more than he thinks she's entitled to but that's the risk you take when you allow a 'third party' to intervene.

It's quite possible the 60k was 'pillow talk'....maybe he 'boosted' his income to impress her,,we've all been guilty of saying stuff to impress a boy/girlfriend.....only he can answer that.
She certainly seems adamant that he isn't being honest about his finances so my best advice is :-
Follow the Directions absolutely.
Your son needs to do an absolutely 100% totally honest list of his assets and finances (and income) and let the Tribunal see that ,far from being a deadbeat Dad,he is committed to allowing the Tribunal/CMS set a fair figure for maintenance for his child which he will pay diligently.all he is asking for is the £50pw he pays Mum2 to be factored into the final figure as per the CMS's own rules.

[Sapphire]

Re: Child Support Agency 2003 scheme Child Maintenance new scheme for cases after 25th Nov 2013

Totally agree with Inca about the £60k possibly being 'pillow talk' lets face it most men will swear black is white if it means getting the knickers off a girl. What concerns me is that you say its £29k 'declared' income, is there in anyway possible there's any 'undeclared' income, because if there is I think you need too re-think fast, because you might find that Mum No.3 is a pretty canny lady and you could end up having a nice visit from the HMRC and them going through everything.

[Enforcer]

Re: Child Support Agency 2003 scheme Child Maintenance new scheme for cases after 25th Nov 2013

Already explained this. Declared income of £29,000 was nearly £7,000 more than he actually earned. Account rant moved income around to make best use of tax allowances. There is no other income.

[Enforcer]

Re: Child Support Agency 2003 scheme Child Maintenance new scheme for cases after 25th Nov 2013

Questions that Judge asked CSA rep kept going through my head. Once I pointed out he did not earn the sum that was declared to HMRC and that accountant can move figures around within a partnership for tax purposes. Questions were, what is son's tax status? a self employed partner, can you repeat that, a self employed partner. On what basis did you calculate your assessment? On latest figures from HMRC. Is this correct, yes, are you absolutely certain, yes.
Following a lot of research I have discovered,
Department for Work and Pensions
Adjudication and constitutional issues division
The Law Relating to Child Support
Supplement 37 - September 2007
Page 30 Child Support (maintenance Assessments and Special Cases) Regulations 1992
(7) In the case of a self-employed earner whose employment is carried on in partnership or is that of a share fisherman within the meaning of the Social Security etc etc.
Basically what this is saying is that the CSA are NOT allowed to use HMRC figures in the case of a self employed partner.

Now this works both ways, in the first case Son earned far less than he was assessed on, in latest return to HMRC he earned far more than they will assess him on!

Have written to CSA centre manager explaining the situation enclosing copies of regulations together with a copy of that letter and a covering letter to General Manager saying that it is his responsibility to sort this whole mess out. They got it wrong from the start!

Do you think that I need to write to the Judge as she did not elaborate on this matter???

[Sapphire]

Re: Child Support Agency 2003 scheme Child Maintenance new scheme for cases after 25th Nov 2013

I think you may have hit of something, but I would hold fire till you hear from the others, in the meantime prepare your argument.

[CleverClogs (RIP)]

Re: Child Support Agency 2003 scheme Child Maintenance new scheme for cases after 25th Nov 2013

I still reckon that Enforcer's son should be locked into a male chastity device, lest he knocks up yet another woman.

[PlanB]

Re: Child Support Agency 2003 scheme Child Maintenance new scheme for cases after 25th Nov 2013

Have written to CSA centre manager explaining the situation enclosing copies of regulations together with a copy of that letter and a covering letter to General Manager saying that it is his responsibility to sort this whole mess out. They got it wrong from the start!

Do you think that I need to write to the Judge as she did not elaborate on this matter???

I doubt the Judge will read the papers until she starts to prepare for your next hearing which you say won't be until October/November. Anything you put in a letter will sit on the Tribunal file unread for the time being. Also be careful not to look as if you're saying she got it wrong until you're more sure of your ground. Maybe wait for a response from the CSA Centre Manager before you do anything. If he agrees with you and changes the figures then you'll have no need to write to the Judge.

What did the Tribunal's Directions tell you to do next? Was there anything about you making further submissions to the Tribunal by a specific date?

[Enforcer]

Re: Child Support Agency 2003 scheme Child Maintenance new scheme for cases after 25th Nov 2013

All that directions want is financial, and asking csa to complete variation application within 28 days.

[Enforcer]

Re: Child Support Agency 2003 scheme Child Maintenance new scheme for cases after 25th Nov 2013

Letter today for son from Child Maintenance Appeals Team. Thankfully he is at the seaside with his child no 2. School Hols.
Child no 2 was not recognised by CSA as he had a "family arrangement" of £200 a month. But child no 3 was put onto the old CSA scheme. In order to get child no 2 recognised he had to register with CSA to get moved onto the new CMS scheme. We argued that child no 3 should have been put onto the new scheme and not the old.
CMS have now advised that child no 3 is under the new scheme and they want a payment of £316.75 a month for child no 3. No mention at all of child no 2.
I really cannot believe that this government agency should be in existence. This should be so simple to sort out, why can't they just do their job as laid out in law!
Just sheer incompetence.

[Pixie]

Re: Child Support Agency 2003 scheme Child Maintenance new scheme for cases after 25th Nov 2013

Unfortunately they're just the same (ie incompetent) as many government agencies

[PlanB]

Re: Child Support Agency 2003 scheme Child Maintenance new scheme for cases after 25th Nov 2013

Letter today for son from Child Maintenance Appeals Team.

. . . Child no 2 was not recognised by CSA as he had a "family arrangement" of £200 a month. But child no 3 was put onto the old CSA scheme. In order to get child no 2 recognised he had to register with CSA to get moved onto the new CMS scheme. We argued that child no 3 should have been put onto the new scheme and not the old.

CMS have now advised that child no 3 is under the new scheme and they want a payment of £316.75 a month for child no 3. No mention at all of child no 2..

Unless I've misunderstood, you have got what you wanted. Child No 3 is under the new CMS scheme.

What you're not happy about is the sum that the CMS says your son has to pay the mother of his child.

It's not clear from your posts whether you are acting as your son's formal representative with these Tribunal proceedings because he is feeling overwhelmed by all the money and legal stuff, or whether he wants to wash his hands of this problem and leave it to you to deal with everything since it's your business which is picking up the tab. Perhaps he feels that since he's made the decision to turn his back on his child that he no longer has any responsibility in dealing with how the finances are sorted.

Mum 3 has got legal advisors. I think you and your son need legal advice. There's a lot of legal information on this website including factsheets and maintenance case law

http://www.fnf.org.uk/law-and-inform...ld-maintenance

http://www.fnf.org.uk/law-and-inform...er:Maintenance


Families Need Fathers has a lively forum which your son or you can join and exchange information with others in the same situation

http://www.fnf.org.uk/help-and-suppo...e-forum#whatis

[Enforcer]

Re: Child Support Agency 2003 scheme Child Maintenance new scheme for cases after 25th Nov 2013

Yes we wanted child no 3 on the new scheme, so that they would now assess him as also paying for child no 2, £200 a month family based arrangement. The CSA do not recognise family based arrangements but the new scheme CMS do. (Or should).
They have done exactly the same as CSA and not recognised child no 2. The maintenance figure should now be divided between both children.
In answer to your other questions, yes I am his representative at tribunal, yes my business will be picking up the bill. My son is a really good hard worker, not very good on computers, and does have difficulty writing letters. Simply would not be able to deal with this. Not coping well with the stress.
Thanks for the links.

[Enforcer]

Re: Child Support Agency 2003 scheme Child Maintenance new scheme for cases after 25th Nov 2013

On another point, my Son did not decide to turn his back on his child. Mother number 3 refused to put his name on the birth certificate, she has already stated that he has NO parental rights.

[Sapphire]

Re: Child Support Agency 2003 scheme Child Maintenance new scheme for cases after 25th Nov 2013

Sounds about right, didn't want him to be the father, but sure enough wants him to be the benefactor, seriously hun, get a DNA test done, it sounds to me that she's pulling all the strings, its about time you fought back and dirty. I know your convinced that the child is his, but what if it isn't eh, there's so many men out there paying out for kids that are not their own, through no fault of their own.

Right..... go on then, shoot me for that one everyone, but there are unscrupulous girls out there arn't there.

[Pixie]

Re: Child Support Agency 2003 scheme Child Maintenance new scheme for cases after 25th Nov 2013

Not going to shoot you Sappy...it's a very valid point.