Child Support Agency 2003 scheme Child Maintenance new scheme for cases after 25th Nov 2013

[Inca]

Re: Child Support Agency 2003 scheme Child Maintenance new scheme for cases after 25th Nov 2013

So....to clarify.....

Mum 1...........No maintenance order ........No maintenance paid.

Mum 2..........No maintenance order..........£200 pcm on family arrangement paid through the business. Your son wants this figure acknowledged by CMS and offset against any order for Mum 3.
We do not know yet if this figure is higher or lower than the CMS would deem correct,Mum 2 doesn't want CMS to be involved at all..

Mum 3.........Has applied for £800 pcm through now defunct CSA..CMS is the new name..
2003 rules now superceded by 2013 rules.....new regs bought in on 30.6.2014 which clearly state any children whose parent receives money under a family arrangement will be included in any new assessment.

Therefore,the assessment for Mum 3 will be based on sons earnings ..minus £200 he pays for Child 2.

Son has been paying £196 pcm to Mum 3 ,,this figure is your personal assessment based on what Mum 2 gets.

Son.............Son is employed (and is a partner in family business. In the last tax year he declared a £29k wage (before baby 3)
This year he is declaring a £13k wage (after baby 3)

My thoughts......
It is a moot point how/when /where /why Baby 3 came into this world,,the fact remains he/she is here and the law of the land dictates that your son will help pay for his/her upbringing.as he is for Child 2.
Your son is absolutely correct in that ,under the new rules the payments he makes to Mum 2 should be taken into account when assessing the payments to Mum 3. That is the crux of this as I see it.

As your son is adamant he is Baby 3's father he MUST get his name on the Birth Certificate ensuring his parental rights for a variety of reasons......one being he is paying towards the childs upkeep,,if Mum 3 outright refuses..alarm bells should ring.

The tax issues/wages..This is where I think the problem is.......the huge decrease in sons entitlement...any layperson seeing this is going to query why? Especially as it coincides with Mum 3's pregnancy.
Also,,don't you think it would be better if any maintenance payments to Mum 2 & 3 come directly out of your sons bank account and not via the business? It could get very messy otherwise.

Is your son in arrears to Mum 3 as of todays date,,?
Are these arrears via the CMS?
Are the payments of £196 to Mum 3 up to date? How is it being paid (as there's no contact)
Will your son continue to pay £200 pcm to Mum 2 even if CMS say it's too much?

Sorry for all the questions,,and yes,,us parents often end up sorting our offsprings messes out

[Enforcer]

Re: Child Support Agency 2003 scheme Child Maintenance new scheme for cases after 25th Nov 2013

Yes your assessment of the situation is correct. Mum 2 will continue to get £200 a month regardless. They are still on talking terms and he has child whenever needed as well as holidays weekends etc.I would prefer to continue to pay via the business, as I can track all payments. He is now in arrears with cms as csa have transferred arrears. Is once again calling them this morning to try and get an answer from them.

[Enforcer]

Re: Child Support Agency 2003 scheme Child Maintenance new scheme for cases after 25th Nov 2013

Have not made this month's payment yet, they have not given a figure or where to send payment.

[Sapphire]

Re: Child Support Agency 2003 scheme Child Maintenance new scheme for cases after 25th Nov 2013

Just a thought, if you want to keep track of the payments wouldn't it be better for you to open up an account solely for that purpose and pay the maintenance from there rather than the business account ? I know that if I did that my accountant would be slapping me silly even more than he does now.

[Enforcer]

Re: Child Support Agency 2003 scheme Child Maintenance new scheme for cases after 25th Nov 2013

Ok son phoned them again this morning, explained that this was the third time he had phoned this week, no one has replied. Lady on phone said that they had sent an email to caseworker on Monday, she "should" get a call back Thurs/Fri. Asked what he had to pay, new assessment, having problems with the new system, she suggested that he put away what he thought it might be then he would have the money to pay when they have sorted it out. They promised last month that he would have the figures under the new system by 17th July at the latest. Told me not to pay them anything else until they get back with a payment figure! How are you supposed to deal with this level of incompetence!

[PlanB]

Re: Child Support Agency 2003 scheme Child Maintenance new scheme for cases after 25th Nov 2013

Ok son phoned them again this morning, explained that this was the third time he had phoned this week, no one has replied. Lady on phone said that they had sent an email to caseworker on Monday, she "should" get a call back Thurs/Fri. Asked what he had to pay, new assessment, having problems with the new system, she suggested that he put away what he thought it might be then he would have the money to pay when they have sorted it out. They promised last month that he would have the figures under the new system by 17th July at the latest. Told me not to pay them anything else until they get back with a payment figure! How are you supposed to deal with this level of incompetence!

Pity you're not getting all this in writing. You may need a paper trail otherwise it's your word against theirs.

[Enforcer]

Re: Child Support Agency 2003 scheme Child Maintenance new scheme for cases after 25th Nov 2013

Will eventually get there, that's why I asked earlier on how to do a subject access request against them. They record all conversations, "apparently"!

[Enforcer]

Re: Child Support Agency 2003 scheme Child Maintenance new scheme for cases after 25th Nov 2013

Inca, just clicked on the link you sent yesterday, cannot believe it, they have not followed this procedure, and yet they have awesome powers to help themselves to money. How do we as a democracy, allow this to happen?

[Sapphire]

Re: Child Support Agency 2003 scheme Child Maintenance new scheme for cases after 25th Nov 2013

There you go Enforcer, I suspect you can build a very good argument based on that they havn't followed procedure.

[Inca]

Re: Child Support Agency 2003 scheme Child Maintenance new scheme for cases after 25th Nov 2013

It's going to be an uphill battle to fight them on 'procedural failings' and a battle I am absolutely sure you will meet head on Enforcer,and rightly so. If the boot was on the other foot I'm sure they would bring God and all his Angels down to ensure your son paid up.
However,,all the time they are pratting around is Mum 3 getting the £196 pcm you assessed she would get??
I hope so because that will go in your sons favour in a couple of ways:-

1)It will show 'willingness to pay'
2) Any Sums already paid to her will be deducted from arrears showing on the CMS file (when they get their arses in gear)

My personal opinion is the CMS have been given a lot of power to try and put parents OFF using them and come to a private arrangement,,hence the 20% collection fee and the 4% payment fee.

Start the paper trail and keep a note of dates/times/people you speak to in their offices,,it's not your fault they can't work their own systems but that's not going to stop the arrears mounting up and making matters worse before they have a chance of getting better.

[Enforcer]

Re: Child Support Agency 2003 scheme Child Maintenance new scheme for cases after 25th Nov 2013

Ok Thursday and Friday have now passed, no phone calls, no one has even attempted to get back to my son, So much for their promises! Waste of space!

[PlanB]

Re: Child Support Agency 2003 scheme Child Maintenance new scheme for cases after 25th Nov 2013

Thursday and Friday have now passed, no phone calls, no one has even attempted to get back to my son, So much for their promises! Waste of space!

How about you get some of this in writing.

Send them a letter which basically says "please can you clarify the situation following my telephone calls to your office on *abc* date when you told me *xyz* including the fact that I should not make any further payments".

It's not about them being inefficient, it's about you being efficient. This will impress the Tribunal.

Is there any reason why you shouldn't go on paying Mum 2 and Mum 3 what you believe they are due?

I say this because there are babies out there who still need to eat even if the CSA/CMS can't get their act together in the meantime.

[Enforcer]

Re: Child Support Agency 2003 scheme Child Maintenance new scheme for cases after 25th Nov 2013

Mum no2 will get her £200 a month as usual, son has taken child no2 to the seaside until Wednesday, my wife has looked after her this week as it is school holidays. Mum no 3 will have to wait, son says pay her once they give him a figure!

[PlanB]

Re: Child Support Agency 2003 scheme Child Maintenance new scheme for cases after 25th Nov 2013

Mum no 3 will have to wait, son says pay her once they give him a figure!

Is that wise

Inca was right to say that your son needs to arrive at the Tribunal with clean hands. Nobody has disputed that he is the father of the baby have they?

Was this your decision to stop paying Mum 3 (from the business) or your son's decision?

I thought you guys had already worked out that £196 per month was due and reasonable which is why you have been paying it.

[Enforcer]

Re: Child Support Agency 2003 scheme Child Maintenance new scheme for cases after 25th Nov 2013

I think that you are right, my son is angry at the fact they are not doing as they promised, angry at the mother. I will overrule him and send a cheque tomorrow, you are right, children come first. Just wish that we had a chance to meet our 4th Grandchild.