Extended Mortgage term and Buildings Insurance Premiums.

Hi again, just thought i'd update. Bad news, good news and bad news, then bad news and good news or summat like that !!
Bad news, the FOS investigator said i ought reasonably to have known i had cause for complaint earlier than i did, I explained i contacted them from 1997 to 2002, but he said they where "queries" not complaints. Some other things too, so thats the short story. Good News, it can be referred to an actual Ombudsman for a final desision ,on wether to consider my complaint and thats before my complaint itself is considered etc.. Bad news,......... given that Santander have refused for it to be looked at due to "time limits" i think i'll have an uphill struggle. Also, from what i can fathom it may take three months from now before the Ombudsman makes his finding on wether he can investigate or not. Then longer again to look at it.......... So that where i am up to.

As this has dragged on for so long, i've been getting frustrated and researched like a demon. Take 'em to Court, what are my losses, what would be my cause of action ? What about the limitation periods they've mentioned.. etc....... all ran through my brain. Then the cost of a Court action............... Phew!!! I've researched FCA, MCOBS, BCOBS, DISP rules, etc. untill my head burst and i almost thought i was going nuts.

And then..................... GAME CHANGER !!! I'm not sure how i ever missed this, well i am actually , i'm not an expert at finances and the law, but its an absolute favourite here and its one of this forums specialities..................and its something my original paperwork shows, but i'd never paid it any attention: my "mortgage" is an actual "regulated credit agreement" under the CCA 1974.

In short.most mortgages are now "RMC"'s............. Regulated Mortgage Contracts. Mine is a "legacy CCA mortgage", as such all the provisions and protections of the act apply to me. Still do, the account is live.Mine was a small agreement for under £25k etc........... Now knowing that opens up a whole new ball game, but one that people on this site will be familiar with. So in short i've set off the standard CCA questions to my creditor, they're only really to cross the "i"'s and dot the "t"'s........... but other than that i'm good to go.

I'm not going to go into too much detail yet, but what i'm hoping will happen is i will give my creditor another chance personally to accept "mediation", then i'm ready to go.... N1 form for Court, application to make a Judgement under CCA, accept ruling from the Court to remedy as sees fit [no monetary value to the claim]. That should keep it simple and my cost liability down ?

Does anyone see a flaw in the plan or process? I don't want to go into too much detail at the minute unless some one has input and is interested.
Thanks for listening (or reading) :-)

Not looking good for me so far. Ombudsman reply:

What you're complaining about happened more than six years ago (the change to your mortgage in 1993). And, within the rules our service operates under, it sets out that where an event happened more than six years ago, we then need to think about when the complainant ought reasonably to have been aware of a cause for complaint. If that is more than three years before the complaint was raised, then we won't usually be able to investigate the complaint.



In your case, it does seem likely we won't be able to investigate the merits of your complaint. However, before I reach a finding on that I would like to request some more information from you. I will also be asking Santander to provide some additional information. Please provide the following:

I hope the extra information i provided qualifies me for this:




Fingers crossed.

Hi again, just a random question not sure if its important or not. I've been able to log on and check my credit score since about 2010 with noddle/credit karma. I've just check now with experian and clearscore and my mortgage account does not show on any of them. Never has done on noddle even in 2010. Doesn't show in closed accounts either on any of them. Should i be concerned ?

Ok all been sent off this morning. Had issues with printer then scanner etc... But it was just as well, it gave me time to add the extra info in a coherent fashion and add to the case in a comprehensive and plainly understood manner. Obviously i have a lot more paperwork than i have been able to share here, i'll be very suprised if it actually gets to an ombudsman for a descsion and a published case. I think it will be sorted out "informally" . That said i'll keep you updated, if at any point i don't get back with an outcome then you'll be able to deduce whats happened. Wish me luck !!!

[Roger]

AAD does like fighters!

Well recieved contact from the Ombudsman this morning. Looks like the business has been on to them already, they are not agreeing to the complaint being looked at until they have consent from all necessary parties. They've picked up on the fact the joint account holder is now my ex wife. They want a signature, birth date etc.. They're in for a shock if they think thats gonna cause me any difficulties. They'll have that first thing tomorrow morning if not sooner. Always pays to be nice to your ex partner and maintain good relations !!! :-)

If it is showing an overpayment, the payment has already been credited to the account.

100% correct. But its not been allocated to the interest/capital schedule correctly. In the case of the £127.07 its been directly allocated to the capital .But oddly shows as an overpayment . It can only be one or the other.

[Still Waving]

A figure in the arrears/credit column is not actually a balance per se. It is just an expression of the relative positions of payments due and payments received. If it is showing an overpayment, the payment has already been credited to the account.

Many thanks for the help. I can now bring this thread to a conclusion as i have worked it out. Its very simple really as computers can't lie and don't make mistakes.

1991:


The amount needed to keep the account in order if you look at the credit arrears column was £22.64.



Now if i add £22.64 to the total i'd paid it equals £22.64+£1258.93 = £1281.57 . So its still short of what is needed. Its actually £1363.17-£1281.57=£81.60 .
Where did the £81.60 go ?



£209.35 - £127.75 = £81.60.

What is happening is that any overpayments stay in the credit/arrears balance column and do not get creditied to the account. Once you know that you can just rinse and repeat as you go through the next year or two and its 100% accurate. Their system is not set up to credit an overpayment.

It also confirms that the £127.07 was not accounted for. All my other calculations are 100% correct.

I'm done, i'm just going to crack on with what i have to do now, cheers again. Oh, BTW i won't be the only one this happened to................. its a system failing.

[Still Waving]

Originally posted by Still Waving View Post

Let me just say now that I think you have made a fundamental error which needs to be corrected. I believe the usual tenet is that interest and all other debits are paid before any payments are allocated to capital. So the insurance has to be paid before capital. You have not allowed for this.

No, i've done exactly what you have just said. Post #201 as example:
https://all-about-debt.co.uk/forum/m...06#post1543606

With respect, no you haven't. Do you not see that insurance is a payment due, so should be listed up with the other payments due. You have included it in your calc of the carried forward balance, but have not appreciated that you need to net it off against the capital reduction figure, as it was not paid and therefore reduces any capital reduction. You will see this if you put the insurance where it belongs, with the payments due. Also for '92 you have wrongly incorporated in one place a b/f figure of 13401.87. Explanation below.

For what it's worth - and taking the actual situation rather than what you think it is - my calcs indicate the following:

1991
1) Taking debits due including insurance = 1415.10. Less Payments (not including 31/12) 1258.93 = payments deficit 156.17 . Now, net interest + Insurance = 1336.21, Less payments 1258.93 = Capital Reduction Deficit (ie capital Increase) of 77.28. This is also borne out separately by the balance outstanding going up from 13324.59 (y/e '90) to 13401.87, before the 31/12 payment.

2) Taking debits due including insurance = 1415.10. Less Payments ( including 31/12) 1386.00 = still a payments deficit 29.10. Now, net interest + Insurance = 1336.21, Less payments 1386.00= Capital Reduction 49.79. This is also borne out separately by the balance outstanding going down from 13324.59 (y/e) to 13274.80 (y/e).

Note, too, that the 127.07 has been accounted for as it reduced your outstanding balance and, despite there still being a 29.10 payments deficit, there is a capital reduction of 49.79.

1992
Taking debits due including insurance = 1224.58. Less payments 1081.30 = payments deficit 143.28. Net interest plus insurance = 1108.22, less payments 1081.30 = 26.92 Cap Reduction deficit (ie capital Increase) . This is also borne out separately by the y/e balance going up from 13274.80 to 13301.72.

Comment:
In '92 there were only 10 repayments made including one of just £1.30, resulting in a repayment deficit of 143.28. Also at 31/12/91 there was a repayment deficit of 29.10. It goes without saying that these deficits have hindered the capital reduction by similar amounts.

As noted earlier in the thread, it appears that the balance at end of '90 was £13324.59. This small reduction after almost 2 years does suggest that there were repyment deficits somewhere in those two years. Difficult to square that with the apparent credit arrears brought forward without those statements.

You may disagree with my analysis of '91 and '92, and indeed the whole thing has become so muddied that I may be mistaken. I wouldn't want to give you a wrong steer, so I am going to bow out now, and leave it to your auditor. I hope he can sort it through for you.

Good luck.

This is all getting very confusing.

I'll tell you why it is confusing. Its because all their systems and calcs are wrong. And its the reason why we are getting so exasperated.
Perfect example: the initial repayment calc................ £13375.69. @12.75% = £118.69.
Thats incorrect. Its the correct figure if you use the correct percentage which was 13.5%. But they wrong footed us with a letter saying i never increased my payment, so we looked at that. I came to a conclusion that it was quoted at a 20 year term, you came to a conclusion that it was a MIRAS error. The actual calc was correct, the completion docs and follow up letter saying 12.75% was incorrect. That was where we all went wrong. Right calculation, wrong interest percentage quoted.

BTW, many thanks for your help with this.

Let me just say now that I think you have made a fundamental error which needs to be corrected. I believe the usual tenet is that interest and all other debits are paid before any payments are allocated to capital. So the insurance has to be paid before capital. You have not allowed for this.

No, i've done exactly what you have just said. Post #201 as example:
https://all-about-debt.co.uk/forum/m...06#post1543606

Interest rate for 31/12/91 was 11.55% . it was 11.55% from 01/10.91 until 28/02/92.

[Still Waving]

This is all getting very confusing.

I'm currently looking again at my figures for '91, before looking at what did, or should have happened in '92. Let me just say now that I think you have made a fundamental error which needs to be corrected. I believe the usual tenet is that interest and all other debits are paid before any payments are allocated to capital. So the insurance has to be paid before capital. You have not allowed for this. The insurance doesn't affect the arrears, but it does have to be cleared.

For '92, my original calcs came to a payments deficit of £143.28 (ie your 109.57 plus 33.71 ins).

There are two figures to be established for each year - the payments deficit, and the capital reduction deficit. Then I think the arrears/credit balance situation looked at afterwards.

I'll come back again at another time, after I've looked at things. In the meantime, can you let me know what the interest rate was at 31/12/91?

Another anomally. 1992 my spreadsheet and the microfiche. My actual payments total £1081.30 . Payments due shows £1190.87 was due. So i paid short by £109.57 ? The microfiche shows a nominal credit balance ?