Extended Mortgage term and Buildings Insurance Premiums.

[Still Waving]

Further to my previous post, I should have added that in 2003 when you contacted them, they were well aware that they were in the doo-doo as the complaints about extended terms were coming through by then. It appears from what you have said that they still did not come clean to you as an individual mortgagee. I suppose at this stage the FOS had not become involved.

You have not actually quoted verbatim (as far as I can tell) what they said about increasing your repayments to bring the term back on track, so we do not know the context within their letter, and my comments are on this basis.

[Guest]

Thanks both of you. Aside from my mortgage account i do not have another account with them and i never have had. I used to just go in, pay cash and give my mortgage account number and come away with a payment slip/reciept.

In their letter they say [prior to 1993] "The term was not related to the monthly payments as it is now" . That makes no sense to me as they say the term was actually extended because of the insufficient payments prior [to 1993].

Postman has been today and i don't have their letter, hopefully i'll get it Monday. Just as well it will take me some time to slowly try and digest this.

[Guest]

1997 letter

[Still Waving]

Really AN ??

As I said before the part about payment at rate changes being calculated on the previous registered instalment makes no sense to me.

The last part takes the cake - They would have needed your written permission to return to the original (approximate) term. And rather than being penalised by higher interest charges over a longer period, you benefited from lower repayments. The letter is a masterclass in obfuscation.

[Roger]

".. I used to just go in, pay cash and give my mortgage account number and come away with a payment slip/reciept. .."
Is that in their Branch!

Now suppose the Rates had GONE DOWN!! Then what!
WHY DID THEY NOT SEND YOU NOTICE OR TELL YOU AT EACH AND EVERY RATE CHANGE??
Because they are telling YOU that was your Mortgage terms BUT that IGNORES THEIR OWN DUTY of disclosure doesn't it!

As for the benefit of paying what was it 8/9 years more? Lets do the Maths 118.69 * ( 12(months) * 9 (years)) = 12,818.52 Well you would have been better of with a DCA wouldn't you!!

It is they who have benefitted to the tune of £13 k as well as a retained Legal Charge on Your Property!

[Night Monkey]

The letter is a masterclass in obfuscation.

I'm also wondering if it's very carefully worded. The phrase 'At this time you were quoted an instalment of £118.69' seems deliberate, almost as if they made a mistake at that point but want to obscure the fact. I make that a payment on a 25-year mortgage of around £10,750 at 12.5%.

Also '...however you continued to pay £118.69' is pointing the finger of blame at you when surely they had the responsibility to make you aware of any necessary changes to the payment schedule?

It will be very interesting to see what the SAR shows up.

marylikes, I hope it is sorted in your favour.

[Still Waving]

I'm also wondering if it's very carefully worded. The phrase 'At this time you were quoted an instalment of £118.69' seems deliberate, almost as if they made a mistake at that point but want to obscure the fact. I make that a payment on a 25-year mortgage of around £10,750 at 12.5%.

I agree with your calc NM. The OP has said that the mortgage was for around £13.5k or maybe £12.5k, and later £13.3K, so there may be a bit of doubt about the actual amount. However, unless it was £10.75k that quoted repayment of £118 pm is AN's first error.

[Guest]

Thanks for replies. Sorry for any confusion, even though i have a lot of mortgage statements i had to dig through them to find the original start date and original loan amount. Its not listed on them all. From memory i knew it was "about" 13k , my statements confirm the start date was January 1989 and the loan was for £13,301.72. The monthly payment quoted and paid was £118.xx .

[Roger]

Thanks for replies. Sorry for any confusion, even though i have a lot of mortgage statements i had to dig through them to find the original start date and original loan amount. Its not listed on them all. From memory i knew it was "about" 13k , my statements confirm the start date was January 1989 and the loan was for £13,301.72. The monthly payment quoted and paid was £118.xx .

These statements could well be the proper basis for a FOS investigation

Do the statements anywhere show the then current interest rate % ?
Because this is the central plank of their argument!!

An omission of this would be frankly almost criminal!

[Still Waving]

These statements could well be the proper basis for a FOS investigation

Do the statements anywhere show the then current interest rate % ?
Because this is the central plank of their argument!!

An omission of this would be frankly almost criminal!

The statement (2009?) posted earlier in the thread did show three changes of rate during the year, so yes all statements ought to show the relevant rates.

[Roger]

The statement (2009) posted earlier in the thread did show three changes of rate during the year, so yes all statements ought to show the relevant rates.

And should have show revised payments! In fact revised payements automatically advised ta each Rate Chnage!
The Payee isn't clairvoyant

[Guest]

Yes, its the statements from 1989/90/91/92 that should be the most revealing and i don't have them yet. Also as a current mortgage account holder they should be able to explain to me how the £118 figure was arrived at. That will be a very simple formula for them to explain to me.

[Still Waving]

And should have show revised payments! In fact revised payements automatically advised ta each Rate Chnage!
The Payee isn't clairvoyant

Indeed, and a point of particular interest is whether the OP was advised in Jan/Feb 1989 of a new repayment due to the rate increase, and whether they corrected their original error, ie by calculating the correct repayment amount from that point. From the gobbledegook in their letter about basing new repayments on the previously registered repayment, the second point seems unlikely.

[Guest]

Ok, i still havn't recieved response letter, and TBH i couldn't be bothered to wait any longer I know my complaint has been declined as they told me on the phone. I've asked them one simple question as an existing mortgage holder : My mortage commenced on 23rd Jan 1989, it was for £13,301.xx , i was quoted and paid £118.xx . "What calculation did they use to arrive at that figure, when i know that i can work out my shortfall and set my mind at rest."

I'm very gratefull to all that have responded here so far . Even though the information is all there looking me in the face its been hard to unravel/notice/understand and i really appreciate every comment even if you feel you're giving me a negative. A negative is a plus !!

In my mind if they tell me it was a mistake then its pretty much game over for them and given its gone on for so long i'll be getting a crime number /reference!

On the other hand, you may just be about to learn something about maths and you will find out fully how a £118 monthly payment will fullfil a £13.3 loan @ 12.75%.

Havn't even got my SAR yet, that will just be icing on the cake i think. Their response to that simple question should unlock the lot...................

[Guest]

Well suprisingly i got a quick response back from a "complaints investigator" . I asked them the question i said in the post above. I have asked this before but they havn't answered, mentioning time limits and they thought i was happy etc... Anyway the email i recieved this morning at 10.30am says this:

Thank you for email on the 22 November 2021, and the request you have made for a breakdown of the opening balance and monthly repayments.

We have requested for a response to be issued to you in writing, providing you with a breakdown which you should receive in the next 7-10 working days.

Now does that sound like i am going to get the calculation that i asked for or does it sound like i am going to get what i already know..............?