Extended Mortgage term and Buildings Insurance Premiums.

[Still Waving]

Quick afterthought - Given that they have given you so much incorrect information, both in offer documents and also letters over the years, that April letter (what year) may be suspect too.

[Guest]

I've found the whole thing really stressfull if i'm honest. I've had sleepless nights trying to work it out, i always knew that i just went in and asked and paid what they said. To see how they have lied to me and tricked me i just have no words . I still can't believe anyone would do that to someone. I still glad we thrashed it around as i have no financial background at all and its all helped me to learn and understand it more, and ultimatley has got us this far. I think i was looking for one little "gotcha" mistake until i realised the enormity of it. Be interesting to see what the auditors make of it.

[Guest]

Hi again. As i've gone through everything i've come across and understood something i hadn't noticed before. The phrase "term extension " or "extended term" seems to be something of a misdirection of fact. My paperwork shows that its nothing of the sort. It shows an "arranged payment schedule" began on 1st January 1993 with a start balance of £13,301.72 for a term of 370 months. I've Googled "arranged payment schedule" and its something you would have to agree and also you would only do if you where in difficulty ? This may explain how they have been able to correct their initial error in rates/payment amount ?
And it dawned on me i do not have copy of the mortgage terms and conditions within my bundle so i will request them separatley. Does anyone have any thoughts as to how you can go into an arranged payment schedule and not know ?

[Still Waving]

Hi

A while back you couldn't understand what had happened to your credit balance of £209.35 in Jan '91. You may have figured it out by now, but I've set out '91 with the monthly debit amounts showing in addition to repayments. You will note that there were a few late payments (ie missed months). The first month with no payment was Feb. So, if you deduct the Feb and March debit amounts from the credit balance, and add back in the payment made on 1st March, you get a credit balance of £82.42. See attached.

Edit: I forgot to add headings, but columns 3 and 4 are payment dates and amounts.

AAD- ML calcs 2.pdf

[Guest]

Well i've had a very productive day today. I came across a website, i've never seen it on any Google search but i found it on an old forum post elsewhere. It looks like its still updated too. First glance at the URL i thought it looks like one of them nutter/conspiracy sites............ but it wasn't. Its like a Mortgage bible...........

http://www.mortgagesexposed.com/

Best of all it has downloadable xls spreadsheet/calculators , i know they're everywhere , but crucially for me there is a month by month one where you can track the rate changes. Its brilliant if you like Maths, and Maths is fast becoming my favourite hobby!!!

Next i had a brainwave. How do i solve the missing 1989/1990 statements ? Without seeing them its a pure guess as to what i did or did not pay, right ? Well as luck has it my payments where subject to MIRAS............. HMRC hold the records of my MIRAS relief amounts. A subject access request to them will reveal what i paid !! Just in the process of firing that request off now.

[Guest]

Hi

A while back you couldn't understand what had happened to your credit balance of £209.35 in Jan '91. You may have figured it out by now, but I've set out '91 with the monthly debit amounts showing in addition to repayments. You will note that there were a few late payments (ie missed months). The first month with no payment was Feb. So, if you deduct the Feb and March debit amounts from the credit balance, and add back in the payment made on 1st March, you get a credit balance of £82.42. See attached.

Edit: I forgot to add headings, but columns 3 and 4 are payment dates and amounts.

AAD- ML calcs 2.pdf

Thanks so much for doing that. Yes its took me a while and i have struggled to understand but i have it now.

[Guest]

Hi

A while back you couldn't understand what had happened to your credit balance of £209.35 in Jan '91. You may have figured it out by now, but I've set out '91 with the monthly debit amounts showing in addition to repayments. You will note that there were a few late payments (ie missed months). The first month with no payment was Feb. So, if you deduct the Feb and March debit amounts from the credit balance, and add back in the payment made on 1st March, you get a credit balance of £82.42. See attached.

Edit: I forgot to add headings, but columns 3 and 4 are payment dates and amounts.

AAD- ML calcs 2.pdf

Also as your document makes clear, although the payment on 31st December shows on the sheet for the year, its not the true picture. The true picture is the year end balance is £13,401.87 . As you said previously, unusually it missed the interest posting and was carried over.

[Still Waving]

Hi again. As i've gone through everything i've come across and understood something i hadn't noticed before. The phrase "term extension " or "extended term" seems to be something of a misdirection of fact. My paperwork shows that its nothing of the sort. It shows an "arranged payment schedule" began on 1st January 1993 with a start balance of £13,301.72 for a term of 370 months. I've Googled "arranged payment schedule" and its something you would have to agree and also you would only do if you where in difficulty ? This may explain how they have been able to correct their initial error in rates/payment amount ?
And it dawned on me i do not have copy of the mortgage terms and conditions within my bundle so i will request them separatley. Does anyone have any thoughts as to how you can go into an arranged payment schedule and not know ?

I can't make out what happened in '93, there seems to be something amiss at the beginning, as I can't make the credit balance brought forward from '92 tally with the early '93 debit and payment figures. There seems to be something missing. It might be helpful if you could post up again all the '93 statements in their correct order in one post?

[Guest]

I can't make out what happened in '93, there seems to be something amiss at the beginning, as I can't make the credit balance brought forward from '92 tally with the early '93 debit and payment figures. There seems to be something missing. It might be helpful if you could post up again all the '93 statements in their correct order in one post?

Ok, give me a minute and i'll post up and explain..............

[Guest]

Statements :

Here we see at the end of 1992, we have a balance of £13301.72 . There is an over payment in the arrears column of £50.85 .
The next payment due would be 23rd January 1993 and it would be the MAR (Monthly Payment) of £83.06 . Because of the £50.85 over payment the actual figure needed to be correct on 23rd January 1993 would be £32.21 (£83.06 - £50.85 = £32.21) . But thats not going to happen.

If we look at the 1993 statement, what we can see is we are starting with Zero in the arrears column. £83.06 due on 23rd Jan, not paid. £83.06 due on 23rd Feb, not paid. Gives us an arrears of £83.06 x 2 = £166.12 . A £40 payment on 12th March brings the arrears column to life again and we can see an arrears figure of £166.12 - £40 = £126.12 .

So, what happened ? This should make it easy to work out although its been very difficult to understand.....

[Still Waving]

OK, I see what you are saying. If they had carried on with the old system you would have had a carried forward CREDIT arrears of £50.85. But they have reset the account from 1 Jan 93, thereby dispensing with any arrears (or in your case, credit) in the final column. They have set the term to finish in 2023 (but why November?). They should have explained to you what they were doing, and there should have been a record of that in your SAR bundle. Which raised the question you asked in post #184.

What has been puzzling me is why there were apparently no payments made in Jan and Feb '93, then several seeming random payments during March.

Further, looking back at the remainder of '93, as posted by you at #115, the arrears column is not populated. It surely should have been as there was an arrear of £5.80 at end of March which was not cleared until your payments of £80.00 and £5.48 on 30 April.

[Guest]

What has been puzzling me is why there were apparently no payments made in Jan and Feb '93, then several seeming random payments during March.

This was puzzling me too as i had never been in any financial hardship, and i used to just go in and pay what i had to pay. So if i had to guess i would say there was some confusion with the account being "in credit", then i'd of had a letter to say otherwise and in March you can see i have paid multiple payments totalling £240 with equated roughly to the three months payments at £80 a pop?

[Guest]

Statement from 1991 :

Another curious thing here, just noticed. 4th December the account is £81.79 in credit. The Payment is obviously a late November payment. So next payment due is 23rd December and that is £104.43. But if the account is £81.79 in credit the actual amount needed to pay would be £104.43 - £81.79 = £22.64 ? After the interest computations £22.64 shows as a minus balance, i understand that. But When i paid (late) on 31st December, how come i never had to just pay £22.64 ?

If you look at the column to the left of the payments you will see it is populated with 3 figure numbers. "454" it would appear is my local branch, so you can see just where i have paid in. When you look at the entries for interest and MIRAS allowance you see no branch number. On later statements1993 onwards you get a branch number?

[Still Waving]

The interest computations had no effect on the arrears/credit figure. The account went into arrears because of the unpaid December debit of £104.43. Remember your December payment was late, after the annual computation had been done. As to why you didn't pay just £22.64, who knows? You have at times made payments above what was needed, hence the credit balance at the end of '92.

I expect the end of year interest computations would have been done centrally, hence no branch number, from '93 possibly new system, new coding practice. You'll also note that 454 changed to 042 from '93. I do think that you are deflecting yourself unnecessarily with that detail. How do you account for 160 appearing against the 2nd April payment, and 736 against the 1st November one in '92?

[Guest]

Looks like the £127.07 payment on the 31st December got stuck in the ether.............