jonesyd UE Diary

[jonesyd]

Re: jonesyd saga

Hi Niddy,
I think I realise what has happened here. The email downtime got us out of sync, I think, and you may have mixed up these 2:

[1] M&S

[2] Partnership/JLS

Can you re-confirm your thoughts on them?

Thanks, jonesyd.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: M&S Money

Hmmm... you surprise me with this one - it is not signed by Lender, there is simply a date stamp. Have I missed something?

It doesn't need to be signed by the lender, they can add anything that purports to be a signature also, so a stamp saying "received" or a date stamp, will suffice. Similarly, an unsigned agreement by you - in itself - is not enough to warrant unenforceability.

Yep, you've missed something i'm afraid - read this, this is what we can argue over (ie if missing from the CCA): ---> The Prescribed Terms

Same principle applies to both your siggy and their siggy

Now, regards to this account; there is no harm in blagging it - if you're happy to do so, send this: ---> CCA Query - Missing Prescribed Terms

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Lloyds/Mastercard

You have already now answered, but perhaps I should have been clearer. What I meant is that if I give Lender 2 opportunities to come up with the correct data, i.e. once in response to a s.78 request and then again, subsequently, in a response to a SAR, and they fail twice, then it seems over-generous to give them a third chance (which the template letter appears to) at my request, so to speak.

I do realise that I have to give them those 2 chances - and realise that they could then afterward dig it out of some deep storage somewhere - but, as you say, by that stage - if they are intending to rely upon it to enforce or take me to court - it will be as much use as a chocolate teapot.

I understand what you're saying - its process, point is you cannot just say "sod off, goodbye" - this process does not work like that, you need to respond when they write unless it's general gumph. Although you have a good case to argue, should they attempt court, you'd be treading dodgy ground if you relied upon a s.78 and SAR as your defence, yes - later, you could seek clarity via FOS/ICO about their shortcomings but at the time, you'd be expected to defend the action based on them producing a recon, which takes an account out of UE state so trust me, again, you need to (at this stage) follow process and send the template as previously advised and YES - you DO want them to send you something, anything!

See what they say in response to the template, that will be the last time you send such templates but first, complete the process..... trust me here

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Egg

Yes, on January 11th. As Egg is UE, does the DN make any difference to anything?

What date was the remedy date on the DN and what date is on the termination letter?

I am only asking cos they may have messed up....

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: jonesyd saga

Wouldn't you know it - this morning I received a letter from Partnership telling me they have ended the informal agreement and the account will be passed to the Collections Dept for action. So now I really do need your thoughts on their CCA...

It is unenforceable, look at page 2 - there it starts by displaying the Prescribed terms as section(s) 2, 3 & 4 then it jumps to section 15 - this is clearly a recon all jumped onto one page.....

You cannot favour one creditor over another, and why the loyalty to one (JLP), versus another (M&S) when they are both issued by the same parent bank (HSBC) fails to register with me.....

This is however unenforceable.....

[jonesyd]

Re: Egg

What date was the remedy date on the DN and what date is on the termination letter?

I am only asking cos they may have messed up....

Default Notice: 4th Jan, with arrears to be paid by Feb 1st.

Date of Termination: 2nd Feb.

[jonesyd]

Re: jonesyd saga

It is unenforceable, look at page 2 - there it starts by displaying the Prescribed terms as section(s) 2, 3 & 4 then it jumps to section 15 - this is clearly a recon all jumped onto one page.....

You cannot favour one creditor over another, and why the loyalty to one (JLP), versus another (M&S) when they are both issued by the same parent bank (HSBC) fails to register with me.....

This is however unenforceable.....

You're right, of course. I've said from the start that I had an "irrational" loyalty to JLP. So, yes, henceforth they shall all be treated as equals. Good news on the UE, in any case!

[jonesyd]

Re: Lloyds/Mastercard

I understand what you're saying - its process, point is you cannot just say "sod off, goodbye" - this process does not work like that, you need to respond when they write unless it's general gumph. Although you have a good case to argue, should they attempt court, you'd be treading dodgy ground if you relied upon a s.78 and SAR as your defence, yes - later, you could seek clarity via FOS/ICO about their shortcomings but at the time, you'd be expected to defend the action based on them producing a recon, which takes an account out of UE state so trust me, again, you need to (at this stage) follow process and send the template as previously advised and YES - you DO want them to send you something, anything!

See what they say in response to the template, that will be the last time you send such templates but first, complete the process..... trust me here

OK, will do.

[jonesyd]

Re: M&S Money

It doesn't need to be signed by the lender, they can add anything that purports to be a signature also, so a stamp saying "received" or a date stamp, will suffice. Similarly, an unsigned agreement by you - in itself - is not enough to warrant unenforceability.

Yep, you've missed something i'm afraid - read this, this is what we can argue over (ie if missing from the CCA): ---> The Prescribed Terms

Same principle applies to both your siggy and their siggy

Now, regards to this account; there is no harm in blagging it - if you're happy to do so, send this: ---> CCA Query - Missing Prescribed Terms

Hmmm. Definitely calls for a blag attempt - I dread to think what would happen in my business if I kept records like this. Or, indeed, had to rely on contracts that were not properly executed!

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Egg

Default Notice: 4th Jan, with arrears to be paid by Feb 1st.

Date of Termination: 2nd Feb.

Bugger they are quick off the mark - and accurate as well, unfortunately.

[jonesyd]

Re: jonesyd saga

OK, just so that I'm clear:

As Lloyds have responded to my SAR with a bunch of nonsense and a letter that says: "Unfortunately, we have not yet been able to locate a copy of your signed agreement. We can assure you that before we opened your credit card account we would have required sight of a signed agreement. If you take this matter further, we are confident in our ability to be able to prove this."

Should I just sit tight, or send another letter to move them on? (Ideally, of course, I'd like them to admit the signed agreement is gone forever and agree to cease all action/communication.)

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: jonesyd saga

OK, just so that I'm clear:

As Lloyds have responded to my SAR with a bunch of nonsense and a letter that says: "Unfortunately, we have not yet been able to locate a copy of your signed agreement. We can assure you that before we opened your credit card account we would have required sight of a signed agreement. If you take this matter further, we are confident in our ability to be able to prove this."

Should I just sit tight, or send another letter to move them on? (Ideally, of course, I'd like them to admit the signed agreement is gone forever and agree to cease all action/communication.)

You ignore them - they cannot take you to court without this agreement

[jonesyd]

Re: jonesyd saga

You ignore them - they cannot take you to court without this agreement

And that makes me v happy, of course. Praise be to NiD!

But

theoretically, if I wanted to reach a "finality", even if it meant some meagre F&FS offer - is there (in your experience) some way to instigate that?

I mean, based on my circumstances, it may well be worth 5% of the outstanding balance just to know it is over and they won't try looking for me or bothering people at my home address (when I move on), etc.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: jonesyd saga

But

theoretically, if I wanted to reach a "finality", even if it meant some meagre F&FS offer - is there (in your experience) some way to instigate that?

I mean, based on my circumstances, it may well be worth 5% of the outstanding balance just to know it is over and they won't try looking for me or bothering people at my home address (when I move on), etc.

In 6yrs time then this occurs, as will the default removal so all you do is sit tight for 6yrs and in that time you concentrate on clearing debts that you can't blag - its a game at the end of the day - you need to bluff them more than they try and bluff/threaten you

[jonesyd]

Re: Capital One

This one is enforceable i'm afraid - its just "too recent" and everything seems to be there. I'd not pay yet, it's too small a debt to go jumping in with offers - i'd consider ignoring them and then let me know (update this thread) when they write and we'll just deal with each letter ad hoc.

Oh dear, seem as though poor FTC have been given the boot. This morning I have received a demand from Fredrickson International Limited for immediate payment in full. How do you think I should play this?

(NB: Regardless of Fredrickson, I'm still in the middle of the "oh no you don't/oh yes we do" argument with Cap One as to whether they need my signature for a SAR.)

Interestingly, Cap One have also never sent me a DN or terminated. Is this because the amount (£1,800) is relatively low?