UE Journey

[PlanB]

New letter received from Intrum today. Ignored

I can see that Niddy considers the credit agreement for this ex-Tesco debt from 2005 to be unenforceable, so your decision to ignore this new letter makes sense

Di

[Warwick65]

Oh I was a bit worried about what the letter said but I see it was one of the 'we may' 'the world may end' etc etc so yes absolutely ignore. Different ball game if it had been a letter of claim.

[Tommy_the_cat]

Name	Tesco
Type of Account	Credit Card
Date Commenced	July 2005
Date Defaulted	December 2018
Approx Balance	£8,500
Account Owner	Intrum
Arrangement/Not paying	Not paying
Last Date paid	May 2021

1. Early Feb - CCA request sent to Intrum
2. 09 Mar 21 - Response from Intrum with a stack of papers, including the credit agreement
3. Send to Niddy for review - Considers it to be unenforceable
4. 14 Jun 21 - DD cancelled
5. 24 Jun 21 - Letter received from Intrum. "Please get in touch to talk about your outstanding balance....". Ignored.
6. 16 Jul 21 - Letter received from Intrum. "We may take legal action if you don't get in touch....." Ignored
7. 26 Jul 21 - Letter received from Intrum. "We're thinking of taking you to court. We don't want to. But, if you don't get in touch soon, we'll pass your account to our legal team. They'll consider applying for a CCJ, which could make it harder for you to borrow money in the future. They may also add court fees of £410 and solicitors costs of £100 to your balance....... Get in touch in the next 10 days...."

Letter received today asking me to get in touch in 10 days or they will pass this case to their legal team. Do I need to start getting worried here? Any advice on my next move is appreciated. Thanks.

[Warwick65]

I am assuming this is not a letter of claim. At the moment it looks like a letter saying we may issue a letter of claim at some point.
A letter of claim will have several parts which include a reply sheet and an income and expenditure form.

If a letter of claim comes you can ask for various documents which in some cases can stop claims in their tracks.

Did Niddy say why he thought it was UE- a simple yes or no will do here , don't want to give too much away.

If it were me, at the moment I would do nothing, hard as it may seem to do.

[Tommy_the_cat]

I am assuming this is not a letter of claim. At the moment it looks like a letter saying we may issue a letter of claim at some point.
A letter of claim will have several parts which include a reply sheet and an income and expenditure form.

If a letter of claim comes you can ask for various documents which in some cases can stop claims in their tracks.

Did Niddy say why he thought it was UE- a simple yes or no will do here , don't want to give too much away.

If it were me, at the moment I would do nothing, hard as it may seem to do.

Hi Warwick and thanks for your reply. No, this was a simple one pager with nothing else enclosed. Yes, Niddy did tell me why he thought it was unenforceable.

[Warwick65]

Hi Warwick and thanks for your reply. No, this was a simple one pager with nothing else enclosed. Yes, Niddy did tell me why he thought it was unenforceable.

Good to know, if, and I hope it is an if- come back and people can help you with what to do. It is not a small amount but it is pre 2007 so that helps. I have had a couple at 6-7000 and a £15000 account all go SB because they could not come up with the 'goods'.

[PlanB]

Letter received today asking me to get in touch in 10 days or they will pass this case to their legal team. Do I need to start getting worried here?

No you don't need to start getting worried, but you do need to stay vigilant.

It's a fine balance between ignoring them and preventing, or at least deterring them from taken legal action.

This forum has a series of template letters which you can send to keep them at arm's length depending on where you are in the Statute Barred process. Your last payment was only in May this year so that's a long way off.

At the moment Niddy has said the credit agreement they sent you is unenforceable, but Intrum aren't physic so won't know that is the reason you've chosen not to pay them.

See what their next letter says before doing anything - or even the one after that

Di

[Tommy_the_cat]

Name	Virgin
Type of Account	Credit Card
Date Commenced	March 2017
Date Defaulted	June 2019
Approx Balance	£10,000
Account Owner	Cabot
Arrangement/Not paying	Not paying
Last Date paid	March 2021

1. Early Feb - CCA Request sent to Cabot
2. 26 Feb 21 - Response from Cabot - Need 12 days
3. 11 Mar 21 - Response from Cabot - Still Processing (Account unenforceable)
4. 07 May 21 - I made a F&F offer of £400
5. 14 May 21 - Offer Rejected and counter made of £8k
6. 21 Jun 21 - Letter received from Cabot - "We haven't been able to obtain the information you requested from the original lender. If this information becomes available to us later, we'll complete your request and send you the relevant information. Until we can supply this, your account is unenforceable".

Hi everyone. I'd like some advice on what to do with this one. I'd like to make another low offer to try to get this one settled. I made an offer in May that was rejected, but I think I have more leverage now as it's been deemed unenforceable by Cabot since. My question is: Does making an F&F settlement offer restart the statue barred clock?

[Warwick65]

Hi everyone. I'd like some advice on what to do with this one. I'd like to make another low offer to try to get this one settled. I made an offer in May that was rejected, but I think I have more leverage now as it's been deemed unenforceable by Cabot since. My question is: Does making an F&F settlement offer restart the statue barred clock?

In my opinion yes it will do because you are saying here is a debt I owe , will you accept this offer.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news

[Roger]

Default Date June 2019
Early Feb - CCA Request sent to Cabot
07 May 21 - I made a F&F offer of £400
14 May 21 - Offer Rejected and counter made of £8k
21 Jun 21 - Letter received from Cabot - "We haven't been able to obtain the information you requested from the original lender. If this information becomes available to us later, we'll complete your request and send you the relevant information. Until we can supply this, your account is unenforceable".
I agree with Warwick65

Look at this from Cabot's perspective!
June CCA Request
Your offer May 21 was foolish and impulsive because it is UE whilst that CCA is outstanding!
There are genuine Charities who would welcome your monies!

At this point in time your Statute Bar Date will be say June 1927 because you have admitted the Debt!
Even although you want a F&F let them make the Offers!
Let them come begging!
Sit on your hands!! Silence and refer anything you receive back here.

[PlanB]

I'd like to make another low offer to try to get this one settled. I made an offer in May that was rejected, but I think I have more leverage now as it's been deemed unenforceable by Cabot since.

Cabot has admitted in writing that this debt is unenforceable which is useful to say the least.

Your CCA Request was sent in February and it's still not been complied with, so the longer that goes on the more it suggests they are struggling to get the documentation they need.

However that doesn't necessarily mean they'll accept an offer from you, and they've already told you that £8k is their counter offer to your cheeky £400 offer

I don't know what they already know about you.

If you are a homeowner (because they can see a mortgage on your CRA file or check your address on Land Registry) then they may decide to try hard to reconstitute a credit agreement if they can't get their hands on the real deal in the hope they can pull it off in court and then seek a Charging Order on your home (if you have one).

You've been making payments to them until recently so they know, or think, you have some disposable income which they could interpret as having the potential to make monthly payments if they were to obtain a CCJ (installment order).

I'm definitely not saying this to scare you (because this debt is currently unenforceable) but you need to look at the situation from their point of view since they are in no hurry to settle for less that £8k.

Maybe now is the time to send a SAR to Virgin to see what's in the Communications Log because if the credit agreement and Default Notice etc are not there then Cabot can't get them either. It might also reveal some useful snippets about their (Virgin) interaction with Cabot, and so on.

Knowledge is power, but at the moment you're boxing in the dark.

Di

[Tommy_the_cat]

Cabot has admitted in writing that this debt is unenforceable which is useful to say the least.

Your CCA Request was sent in February and it's still not been complied with, so the longer that goes on the more it suggests they are struggling to get the documentation they need.

However that doesn't necessarily mean they'll accept an offer from you, and they've already told you that £8k is their counter offer to your cheeky £400 offer

I don't know what they already know about you.

If you are a homeowner (because they can see a mortgage on your CRA file or check your address on Land Registry) then they may decide to try hard to reconstitute a credit agreement if they can't get their hands on the real deal in the hope they can pull it off in court and then seek a Charging Order on your home (if you have one).

You've been making payments to them until recently so they know, or think, you have some disposable income which they could interpret as having the potential to make monthly payments if they were to obtain a CCJ (installment order).

I'm definitely not saying this to scare you (because this debt is currently unenforceable) but you need to look at the situation from their point of view since they are in no hurry to settle for less that £8k.

Maybe now is the time to send a SAR to Virgin to see what's in the Communications Log because if the credit agreement and Default Notice etc are not there then Cabot can't get them either. It might also reveal some useful snippets about their (Virgin) interaction with Cabot, and so on.

Knowledge is power, but at the moment you're boxing in the dark.

Di

Thanks for the help, Di. I'm not familiar with the SAR or when this should be sent (I've never sent one). Do I send it now, and as per the standard AAD format?

[Tommy_the_cat]

Name	Tesco
Type of Account	Credit Card
Date Commenced	July 2005
Date Defaulted	December 2018
Approx Balance	£8,500
Account Owner	Intrum
Arrangement/Not paying	Not paying
Last Date paid	May 2021

1. Early Feb - CCA request sent to Intrum
2. 09 Mar 21 - Response from Intrum with a stack of papers, including the credit agreement
3. Send to Niddy for review - Considers it to be unenforceable
4. 14 Jun 21 - DD cancelled
5. 24 Jun 21 - Letter received from Intrum. "Please get in touch to talk about your outstanding balance....". Ignored.
6. 16 Jul 21 - Letter received from Intrum. "We may take legal action if you don't get in touch....." Ignored
7. 26 Jul 21 - Letter received from Intrum. "We're thinking of taking you to court. We don't want to. But, if you don't get in touch soon, we'll pass your account to our legal team. They'll consider applying for a CCJ, which could make it harder for you to borrow money in the future. They may also add court fees of £410 and solicitors costs of £100 to your balance....... Get in touch in the next 10 days...."
8. 06 Aug 21 - Letter received from Intrum. "Would you like a discount? We want to help you pay tour debt without taking you to court..... So, if you get in touch within 10 days We'll give you a discount on the amount you owe....."

New contact from Intrum today. Offering a discount if I contact them within 10 days, and threatening court action if I don't.

[Roger]

"..
7. 26 Jul 21 - Letter received from Intrum. "We're thinking of taking you to court. We don't want to. But, if you don't get in touch soon, we'll pass your account to our legal team. They'll consider applying for a CCJ, which could make it harder for you to borrow money in the future. They may also add court fees of £410 and solicitors costs of £100 to your balance....... Get in touch in the next 10 days...."
8. 06 Aug 21 - Letter received from Intrum. "Would you like a discount? We want to help you pay tour debt without taking you to court..... So, if you get in touch within 10 days We'll give you a discount on the amount you owe....."
.."
Its so sad they have lost their nice little earner since you cancelled your DD.
Would you like a discount WELL YES a 100% discount.
But there is the issue of the UE pile of papers they have sent to you!
File and see what they send next!

[Warwick65]

New contact from Intrum today. Offering a discount if I contact them within 10 days, and threatening court action if I don't.

They are trying to get you to engage with them- and if you do they are well trained in manipulation, if you are not careful you will end up feeling sorry for the nice man who has to deal with 'debt avoiders' all day. Once that happens they have you hook line and sinker

There are some letters that need acknowledging and some that do not- this is most definitely a do not