UE Journey

[Tommy_the_cat]

Hello everyone.

Newbie here.

After two years on a DMP with StepChange, I've recently decided to go down the self-manage route. I've requested CCAs from the debts passed on to DCAs, and I'm now looking to go down the UE route where possible.

Here is an overview of my current situation:

Cabot (Loan from Shawbrook). Default balance £24,000. Current balance: £22,800. Last payment of £132 was made on 04/03/21. CCA request made early Feb and last response from Cabot on 11/03/21 said that the account is unenforceable.

Cabot (Virgin Credit Card). Default balance £11,400. Current balance: £10,000. Last payment of £106 was made on 04/03/21. CCA request made early Feb and last response from Cabot on 11/03/21 said that the account is unenforceable.

PRA (Barclaycard). Default balance £4,000. Current balance: £3,200. Last payment of £38 was made on 04/04/21. CCA request made early Feb and last response from PRA on 25/03/21 said that the account is unenforceable.

Intrum (Tesco Credit Card). Default balance £10,500. Current balance: £8,500. Last payment of £100 was made on 26/05/21 and this payment is still live. CCA request made early Feb signed agreement sent to me on 16/04/21. Sent to Niddy last night and this morning (10/06/21), Niddy replied saying that it looks UE due to lack of Ts&Cs.

Captital 1 (not DCA purchase). Default balance £8,000. Current balance: £7,000. Last payment of £73 was made on 25/05/21.

Westcott/Halifax (not DCA purchase). Default balance £7,500. Current balance: £6,400. Last payment of £75 was made on 25/05/21.
??????
??M&S (not DCA purchase). Default balance 3,600. Current balance: £3,000. Last payment of £40 was made on 25/05/21.

Thanks for reading this far!! :-)

So, for the two debts with Cabot and the one with PRA, as they have classed them unenforceable, I have decided to do nothing and all payments have stopped. If they happen to find the CCAs in the future then I will recommence the payments.

The one with Intrum is a bit more tricky. As Niddy considers it to be UE, I am ready to stop payments. But before I do so, I have a few questions:

1. Should I inform Intrum that I have stopped the payments?
2. What are the next steps that Intrum are likely to take?
3. How much warning are they obliged to give before a CCJ is issued? I mean, I assume that if they went down that route, I would have plenty of time to act before anything is issued against me?

Thanks everyone for your time and understanding.

???????TTC

????

[PlanB]

Hello

It's always good to see members receiving a letter from a debt owner admitting the debt is unenforceable. You've got several! Keep those letters safe.

Things may change further down the line but cross that bridge when you get to it (if you do).

You're a long way off getting legal proceedings against you, but even if you do get to that stage you should be sent a Letter of Claim giving you 30 days notice of their intention so you can make a decision on what to do then. Each debt will be different so will need to be managed in an individual way.

In the meantime you're gathering evidence for your file.

I look forward to helping you on your AAD journey.

Di

[Tommy_the_cat]

Thank you, Di for your quick response. I'll keep you updated with the progress with Intrum, and and further action from Cabot/PRA.

[PlanB]

Thank you, Di for your quick response. I'll keep you updated with the progress with Intrum, and and further action from Cabot/PRA.

You're welcome

It's a case of 'been there done that' with me, especially when it comes to PRA who took me to court and lost because they had assignment issues and the reconstituted credit agreements which they claimed were enforceable were in fact ruled irredeemably unenforceable by the Judge (Recorder) as you'll see here >

‘“RECONSTITUTED AGREEMENT” – IRREDEEMABLY UNENFORCEABLE”
“UNREDACTED DEEDS OF ASSIGNMENT – NO ASSIGNMENT PROVED”


So, held Recorder Bellamy in PRA Group (UK) Limited v Mayhew at Central London County Court on 22nd March 2017, at the end of a 3 day multi track trial, when dismissing PRA’s claim against our client.


Stale debts sued for on the back of 2 ‘reconstituted’ MBNA credit card agreements (May 1999 and October 2000) were held irredeemably unenforceable under CCA 1974. The evidence of an honest witness was preferred to that of so called “reconstituted agreements”.


After 3 days of close forensic examination of, and legal argument about, evidence and documents from both PRA and MBNA stating that our client’s specific debt had been assigned, the court held that no assignment had been proved.


Efforts, over many months, in earlier cases to force PRA into disclosure of un-redacted deeds and deep and sustained forensic challenge to the provenance of documents needed to prove regulatory compliance, finally drew back the veil. The reality behind bulk debt purchasing was revealed.


This decision shows that just saying an agreement is enforceable and producing a “reconstituted” copy does not prove that it is enforceable. Just saying an agreement has been assigned and producing a notice saying it has been assigned does not prove legal assignment.


Debt purchasers need to provide proof. If that means the pitifully few pence in the pound they pay for stale debts will increase because banks will now have to start keeping original evidence complying with regulatory consumer protection measures, it is hard to imagine many tears being shed, outside the City of London.

[Tommy_the_cat]

Hello again.

I have some other questions , if you don't mind....

1. Is Westcott a DCA, or just acting on behalf of Halifax?
2. In the cases where no DCA is involved (Capital 1, M&S, possibly WESTCOTT) ... Is it worth raising a CCA request, or is that a waste of time?

Thanks
TTC
??

[DNW]

Hi Tommy and welcome aboard this sometimes crazy train

As Di has said, keep the letters safe, particularly so the ones which tell you they can't currently enforce.

A couple of snippets of advice I found helpful when I first started all this myself -

• Keep the amounts a little vague when posting as they're less easily identifiable back to yourself if any prying eyes should spot your post. So for example, if I had a loan of £4567.89 I would call that £4500 or £5000 when posting about it.
• .
• Make new posts with 1 debt per post so it's easier to keep track of them further down the line, and just edit each accordingly when there's an update. If they're kept separate it's also easier to quote your own post when posting updates which makes it much easier for the folks helping to see at a glance what you're referring to, without having to wade through pages of information. This is one of my diary pages, just for an example of how easy it can be to keep track of things: https://all-about-debt.co.uk/forum/d...ue-diary/page3
  I also have exactly this same information on a Google spreadsheet (1 sheet per debt) so I have a backup if ever I need it.
• .
• Keep a separate file (I used a concertina box file) for each debt, and file any correspondence in date order.
• .
• Never speak to any creditors on the phone, refuse security checks, block numbers, whatever is necessary, but keep all communication with them to writing only.
• .
• Don't panic - this forum and the people in it, have saved my sanity on many an occasion when all I could feel was despair.

That all said, I wouldn't bother telling Intrum that you're stopping payments, they'll figure it out themselves soon enough.

[Tommy_the_cat]

Thanks DNW. Good advice. I will edit the amounts and round them now.

[Warwick65]

DNW gave really good advice.

I am even more OCD
So every letter sent or received is filed
It is also scanned and put in a folder , 1 for each debt . I name each file with a number and brief description so:

1 DN
2 CCA request
3 CCA acknowledgement
4 CCA- can't find

etc etc

All these are then stored in one of the many cloud servers, I use Google drive for my debts ( I use BT for my photos and iCloud for work). Google gives you 15GB I think which os plenty big enough for 30 debts

By numbering them they are easy to find in date order

I still have a whole filing cabinet full of letters from SB and UE accounts- I even have all the paperwork from the case that was defended in court so you see for me, a concertina file would just not be big enough

[Tommy_the_cat]

Thanks, Warwick65. At the moment I have a fat envelope full of correspondence. It looks like that envelope will burst soon as my campaign of ignoring threats continues. I will look into scanning and storing everything.

[PlanB]

1. Is Westcott a DCA, or just acting on behalf of Halifax?

2. In the cases where no DCA is involved (Capital 1, M&S, possibly WESTCOTT) ... Is it worth raising a CCA request, or is that a waste of time?

From what you say Wescot is the Debt Collection Agent (DCA) who will be acting on behalf of Halifax but they don't own the debt. They'll probably receive commission for anything they collect on behalf of their client.

It won't be a waste of time sending a s77-79 CCA Request for debts still owned by the original creditors, but it may be an issue of timing as to when you do that.

Sometimes it can prompt the creditor to 'cut and run' by assigning (selling) the debt if they know it has flaws, and sometimes it can make them check out their documentation and then carefully preserve anything relevant in case it's needed later on.

I wouldn't do anything more until you've had the time to list each debt in a separate post with the date history such as when the account was opened and so on.

This forum will help you with a format for doing this.

Di

[Tommy_the_cat]

Thanks again, Di. I will update my post and separate the entries over this weekend. I'll follow the format of DNW so everything is clear and easy to identify and edit.

Good weekend, everyone!

[The Tech Clerk]

Use this format for each one >

• Type of account (credit card/loan/overdraft)
• Date commenced
• Approx balance
• Date last paid (approximate date you last made a FULL payment)
• Are you on arrangement or not paying
• Status (default/in arrears/up-to-date)
• Account owner (who is writing to you, a DCA or the lender or a debt purchaser

[Tommy_the_cat]

Name	Shawbrook
Type of Account	Loan
Date Commenced	July 2018
Date Defaulted	May 2019
Approx Balance	£23,000
Account Owner	Cabot
Arrangement/Not paying	Not paying
Last Date paid	March 2021

1. Early Feb - CCA Request sent to Cabot
2. 26 Feb 21 - Response from Cabot - Need 12 days
3. 11 Mar 21 - Response from Cabot - Still Processing (Account unenforceable)
4. 07 May 21 - I made a F&F offer of £600
5. 14 May 21 - Offer Rejected and counter made of £18k
6. 24 Jun 21 - Received a wad of papers from Cabot and a letter saying that they now consider the account enforceable and that they are now entitled to obtain a CCJ against me. Sent to Webmaster for UE check
7. Niddy has reviewed the documentation and considers it to be enforceable
8. 07 Jun 23 - Received letter of claim. JCS instructed.

[Tommy_the_cat]

Name	Virgin
Type of Account	Credit Card
Date Commenced	March 2017
Date Defaulted	June 2019
Approx Balance	£10,000
Account Owner	Cabot
Arrangement/Not paying	Not paying
Last Date paid	March 2021

1. Early Feb - CCA Request sent to Cabot
2. 26 Feb 21 - Response from Cabot - Need 12 days
3. 11 Mar 21 - Response from Cabot - Still Processing (Account unenforceable)
4. 07 May 21 - I made a F&F offer of £400
5. 14 May 21 - Offer Rejected and counter made of £8k
6. 21 Jun 21 - Letter received from Cabot - "We haven't been able to obtain the information you requested from the original lender. If this information becomes available to us later, we'll complete your request and send you the relevant information. Until we can supply this, your account is unenforceable".
7. 29 Dec 22 - I made a F&F offer of £250.
8. 29 Dec 22 - Offer Accepted
9. 26 Jan 23 - F&F settlement paid to Cabot by telephone
10. 27 Jan 23 - This account is now closed and the balance is zero - checked on the Cabot app. Now awaiting the update of my credit report
11. 09 Feb 23 - Experian report now showing £0 balance and "satisfied"

[Tommy_the_cat]

Name	Barclaycard
Type of Account	Credit Card
Date Commenced	January 2014
Date Defaulted	September 2018
Approx Balance	£3,200
Account Owner	PRA
Arrangement/Not paying	Not paying
Last Date paid	March 2021

1. Early Feb 21 - CCA request sent to PRA
2. 22 Feb 21 - Response from PRA - More time needed to provide.
3. 25 Mar 21 - Response from PRA - Debt Unenforceable
4. 08 Jun 21 - I made a F&F offer of £250
5. 09 Jun 21 Offer rejected and counter offer of £2.9k
6. 15 Feb 22 - package from PRA including reconstituted copy of the credit agreement and T&Cs. Will check with Niddy for enforceability
7. 15 Feb 22 - Sent to Niddy to review and it is considered unenforceable
8. 31 Mar 22 - Letter from PRA.... "We're here to help"... blah blah