SarahSarah Diary: UE and negotiating settlements

[SarahSarah]

Thanks Spud , very encouraging.

Can you point me in the direction of any threads/ templates that advise what to do once a collector has deemed the debt unenforceable? I have already done the CCA requests and have 3 UE. Is the 6 years you're talking about the statute barred period? Don't you have to go silent for that? How would that actually work if I'm still at the same address?

By the way, Diana Mayhew asked earlier if I owned my own home, no I don't - I rent.

I still think I favour settlements but then I've spent a long time reading forums about settlements and only very recently became aware of a thing called unenforceable. I still don't fully understand what to do once you know it's UE though.

[Still Waving]

Just to add to Spud's excellent post - I had been on a DMP for 2 years before I discovered AAD, and would have been paying into it for years, well into retirement. Having done some reading here on unenforceability, I decided to take the plunge, cancelled the DMP and sent CCA requests to all my creditors. I haven't paid any of them since, and will very shortly pass the statute barred point.

With the knowledge and resources available here on AAD, it's perfectly possible to push creditors back using the legislation, and in many cases (as you have found) get them to admit that they would not be able to enforce through the courts. File those letters and keep them safe, by the way.

As Spud said, if push comes to shove, you would still have the option to agree a repayment schedule with individual creditors.

[MisterK]

It's quite easy to go silent SS, requires almost no effort at all really. Just be sure that at the very least you open every letter, file it away and check that it's not a letter before claim. If it is one of those then be sure to let the forum know. If Niddy has previously said that the agreement is UE then Di Mayhew will be ready to spring into action to slaughter the luckless creditor for you. She will be merciless. If it isn't UE then that's the point at which you would think about negotiating a settlement, once again with the help of the forum. And by the way, never hold a telephone conversation with a creditor. That's my take and hopefully it adds a little to the excellent advice from Spud & SW. Good luck

[Spud]

Sarah

In answer to your questions, Once a Creditor ( or Debt Collection agency - Collector ?) has written to you and confirmed that the account is Unenforceable - Its not a case of keeping silent as such, Indeed you would no doubt be sending them plenty of letters - Like most things in life........Its about what you say.......or ensure you don't say that counts. If you use the template letters on this site, not speak to them on the telephone etc then you will never acknowledge the debt and should sail off into the Statute barred sunset.

In basic terms, Although they may advise that the account is Unenforceable, that means just that.......they are unable to enforce it in court. You still owe it, its still yours, they can ask you nicely to pay it.........But you can also decide not to pay........because .....well.......what are they going to do about it? I mean they cant take you to court so realistically they are powerless.

The key here is the Limitations act - Which in basic terms states that a account will become Statute Barred ( No longer enforceable at all) after a period of time, Currently 6 years in England/Wales ( 5 in Scotland) as long as you have not acknowledged it. So that could be making a payment or technically using a phrase such as " My TSB bank credit card" etc in your letter - Acknowledging that it is yours as it were. You are not disputing that the debt is in place, But you are not paying because you consider the account to be in Legal dispute - And unless they can produce the documentation to back up their claims - Then it is unenforceable

There are times of course where a creditor will claim an account is Enforceable .......Well they would wouldn't they............but you might think otherwise.......because you are enpowered and a member of AAD so you know your onions

They may even go as far as issue a claim......only to fall down again when you kindly point out that they have failed to do things correctly or their paperwork is not correct etc. This is a slightly different ball game to them acknowledging that its UE.......But one that works time and time again because many claims fail due to astonishingly bad paperwork ( Or lack of it)

With regard to settlements, There is a school of thinking that if its Unenforceable, Then why would you settle ( Unless you are settling all of them in full) otherwise the damage to your credit record is done already) And if you are already on a DMP - Then it will be shot for now anyway........So there is nothing to lose

If they are deemed Enforceable - That is very different to them being successful in litigation - Claims fail on so many things - Not just the agreement being correct - As others have advised. Plus if you did have to settle in the end.......It is very likely that you would get a better settlement after not paying for all this time. They would take your hand off.

Remember of course you could have saved a tidy little sum away over the years should you ever need it

Each account would need a specific response as and when it became due - If you decide to go down the UE route - Then post the account up on your diary and people will advise the next course of action - Each time

Have a read through some of the Unenforceable diaries to get a feel for other peoples situations

You have made a good start here, The hard bit is already done - Have a read through the guides and have a think - Most importantly if you have a specific question - Ask it......There is no such thing as a daft question here ( Thank god cos I ask loads of them) the daftest question is the one that is never asked

There is no judgement here on AAD - Only support and advice from like minded people
Taking all that into consideration......What have you got to lose? Seems like a win win to me

[SarahSarah]

You guysss!

So I will wait for Never-In-Doubt advice re the two big ones, which may be enforceable, and in the meantime I'm thinking I'll cancel the DMP and stop paying the UE debts. So, with that in mind, please find my next installment of questions herewith (!):

1. Cancelling the DMP, is there any point if I'm no longer paying a fee? They could continue to handle the enforceable ones? What I really want to avoid is having to send financial statements to the debtors I continue to pay in order to negotiate a monthly payment.
2. If I cancel, I take it I can literally just write and say "I no longer require your services"? Do I have to word it in a certain way to not give anything away to the collectors?
3. In regard to the three debts which have been deemed unenforceable, do I need to do anything? Or just go quiet?
4. The Barclaycard one of £500 is unenforceable but it's the only one on my credit file. It would seem in my interest to pay that one off?
5. Last one... where are the letter templates? Can't find them ??

THANKS!

[Spud]

Yes, Wait for Niddy ( Never in Doubt) to come back to you with his thoughts with the two you have sent him

I have to admit DMP's are not my area of great knowledge personally - But others will know them back to front

With regard to your other questions.......hold in there.......I will come back a bit later to assist........Just need to run at the minute with work commitments

[Still Waving]

Hi SarahSarah

On another thread you asked
"25th June 2018, 21:40
Can I ask what you mean by this? I have been paying via a DMP to some unenforceables and the advice seems to be that you can just go quiet...??"



I would just refer you to what Spud has already said in a post above -

"In answer to your questions, Once a Creditor ( or Debt Collection agency - Collector ?) has written to you and confirmed that the account is Unenforceable - Its not a case of keeping silent as such, Indeed you would no doubt be sending them plenty of letters - Like most things in life........Its about what you say.......or ensure you don't say that counts. If you use the template letters on this site, not speak to them on the telephone etc then you will never acknowledge the debt and should sail off into the Statute barred sunset."

The main point is that you adopt a reactive rather than a proactive approach, ie don't initiate contact, and treat each letter received on a case by case basis. This will mean either recording the date received on the envelope and simply filing safely for future reference, or sending a response as advised by the seasoned members here. It will all depend on the content of the individual letter received (some can be safely disregarded) and the status of the alleged debt - post the gist of it here, and you will get advice on how to deal with it, taking into account the history you will have provided.

Incidentally the golden rule is Everything in Writing - so as regards cancelling your DMP, I would recommend doing it in writing rather than with a call, then you will have a record of precisely when they ceased to be your representatives. As advised on the other thread, take a note of account numbers, together with all other relevant information (such as who is being paid, how much, current balance outstanding etc) before you cancel the arrangement. Also, don't forget to cancel the payments to the DMP provider.

[SarahSarah]

Still Waving Thanks for your post. Is there a section of this site where letter templates are saved? The search function doesn’t seem to bring much up.

[Spud]

Template letters are available to AAD+ members only - Which is a secure area of the site where only those members who have been "Vetted" ( For want of a better word) are allowed to access the Secure area ( Which means that you can openly discuss your case without the worry of Debt collection agencies /Solicitors/creditors being able to see what you have posted - As opposed to a public site like here) This is especially helpful if you have a legal claim ongoing etc. There is a £10 year subscription fee - But at less than £1 per month for free access to template letters that are specifically written to deal with practically every situation and are checked by legal professionals - It is a very useful resource and essential really if you were to go down the UE route. There are no other fees etc - Just that joining fee per year

With regard to ending the DMP - I think Still Waving has given you good advice. Perhaps we would need to examine your reasons for wanting to continue with certain debts ???? - You mention not wanting to have to send Income/expenditure details to any of the creditors? What I would advise is that you do not send any financial details to any creditors if you were following the U/E route - You are not obliged to and it wouldn't be sensible to so on that score there would be nothing to be worried about.

With regard to the three debts that are deemed UE - Are those ones where the creditor has confirmed that to you in writing? If so just keep that letter very safe - Start a file for each debt - And for now there is nothing to do.......wait to see what comes next

With regard to the Barclaycard debt - You say it is the only one on your credit file? If that is the case and your credit file is otherwise clean then it could make sense to pay it off if you are able to - BUT it would need someone with a better level of expertise to look into this and advise - Particularly if you are going to stop payments on other accounts........Whether they could start reporting or not and "cancel" the good that you would have already done - In short I could not advise without knowing the full story.......yet !!!!!

[SarahSarah]

Ah, that makes sense. I’ve just paid for AAD+. If I am self managed and one or two of the debts are enforceable, will I not need to provide a financial statement to those? I have one that is definitely enforceable and would like to negotiate a settlement.

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

in the meantime I'm thinking I'll cancel the DMP and stop paying the UE debts. So, with that in mind, please find my next installment of questions herewith (!):

1. Cancelling the DMP, is there any point if I'm no longer paying a fee? They could continue to handle the enforceable ones? What I really want to avoid is having to send financial statements to the debtors I continue to pay in order to negotiate a monthly payment.
2. If I cancel, I take it I can literally just write and say "I no longer require your services"? Do I have to word it in a certain way to not give anything away to the collectors?

From what you say your DMP provider is a business not a charity so you will have signed a contract with them at the outset (did you?). Check the Ts & Cs to see what notice period is required and whether there is any exit fee (I do hope not!).

You don't need to give them a reason.

If you tell them you're going self-managed they are likely to tell your creditors the same so they (creditors/debt purchasers) could start to chase you vigorously. If you don't give a reason to your DMP business then they can simply inform your creditors that they are no longer dealing with you.

Leave it a month and then send your DMP business a SAR/GDPR request for your file. They are obliged to send you all the information/data they hold on you from the last ten years - it'll be a big envelope!

This will enable you to see exactly what they've paid to whom and most importantly any correspondence between them and your debt owners. Sometimes debts change hands without you knowing since they deal direct with your DMP. This matters because creditors have a statutory obligation to serve Notices (such as the Notice of Assignment) on the borrower. If they don't do that then they could struggle to enforce the debt in court.

Your DMP provider may be relieved at the cancellation since you won't be paying them to carry out the work anymore unlike the last ten years where they have received money from you.

Di

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

I have one that is definitely enforceable and would like to negotiate a settlement.

Which one is that?

Di

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

The Barclaycard one of £500 is unenforceable but it's the only one on my credit file. It would seem in my interest to pay that one off

Barclaycard are notorious for defaulting accounts late. This is something that can be argued to get the default backdated if necessary.

What is the date of the default on your CRA file?

Six years to the very day that default was registered the whole file vanishes from your credit file whether it's paid or not.

Paying the debt won't get it removed any sooner it'll simply show as "settled" or "part settled" if you negotiate a F & F.

If other creditors/debt purchasers see you've settled a debt (by searching your CRA file) they will assume that you have funds available so may jump on the bandwagon.

Di

[Still Waving]

Some of my alleged debts were, at prima facie, enforceable. Nevertheless, as I stated in an earlier post I have not paid anything since beginning the UE route. In any case, as you may already have been told, there are more factors than just the credit agreement which determine whether a debt can be enforced.

With regard to negotiating a settlement - you are more likely to get offered a substantial discount if you have not been paying for some time, and the account has been farmed out to agents to chase. However, the choice is ultimately yours as to which way you want to approach dealing with the debts. We are just offering alternate perspectives, and you will find people willing to help whatever you decide to do.

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

By the way, Diana Mayhew asked earlier if I owned my own home, no I don't - I rent.

I asked that question to see if there was any risk of a Charging Order on your home if you went to court and lost.

There isn't since you don't own your home - you rent

Di