The SaltnVinegar UE Diary

[ScabHunter]

Re: The SaltnVinegar UE Diary

They'd probably argue that as the limit on the credit card is not extended, you are only using credit facilities which were already available to you. However, the Guidance says "extending existing borrowing", not "extending existing potential borrowing".

If you have a facility to borrow money, and you use more of that facility to borrow more money, then you are extending your existing borrowing, are you not?

They are contradicting themselves.

SH

[The Tech Clerk]

Re: The SaltnVinegar UE Diary

Well that is a very weird interpretation of their own debt collection guidelines. How the hell is that not 'extending existing borrowing':

• 3.7 Examples of unfair or improper practices are as follows:
• 
  
  
  • contacting debtors at unreasonable times and/or at unreasonable intervals28
  • pressurising debtors to raise funds by selling their property or by taking on further borrowing (including extending their existing borrowing)

Thats the FOS for you!

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: The SaltnVinegar UE Diary

Well that is a very weird interpretation of their own debt collection guidelines. How the hell is that not 'extending existing borrowing':

• 3.7 Examples of unfair or improper practices are as follows:
• 
  
  
  • contacting debtors at unreasonable times and/or at unreasonable intervals28
  • pressurising debtors to raise funds by selling their property or by taking on further borrowing (including extending their existing borrowing)

The extending existing borrowing would relate to an overdraft and/or loan top-up not usage on an existing credit card with a set limit.

Apparently......

[SaltnVinegar]

Re: The SaltnVinegar UE Diary

Hiya, ok no need to scan it to me - thanks mate. So this is not a recon, we know that as they have failed to mention Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983.

So yea, until they send a set of terms applicable to this loan they can whistle in the wind - it remains

I would send the missing PT's template



* edit, received email lol - thanks

LOL no worries!

So thats great news thanks Niddy! I really like being able to put creditors and DCA's under the cosh!

Best
SnV

[SaltnVinegar]

Re: The SaltnVinegar UE Diary

Apparently they are allowed to - I used this argument when I was speaking to OFT and they said it was fine because using a credit card is not getting more into debt. I said "are you taking the piss" and the woman stated "If you can afford to meet the repayments of the credit card then it is up to you if you use it to repay other debts. We cannot tell DCA's not to offer this as a payment method".

Wankers, the lot of em!

Well that is a very weird interpretation of their own debt collection guidelines. How the hell is that not 'extending existing borrowing':

• 3.7 Examples of unfair or improper practices are as follows:
• 
  
  
  • contacting debtors at unreasonable times and/or at unreasonable intervals28
  • pressurising debtors to raise funds by selling their property or by taking on further borrowing (including extending their existing borrowing)

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: The SaltnVinegar UE Diary

Ah right understood! For benefit of all I'll repeat verbatim the covering letter and then I'll scan and email it to you in a bit.

Hiya, ok no need to scan it to me - thanks mate. So this is not a recon, we know that as they have failed to mention Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983.

So yea, until they send a set of terms applicable to this loan they can whistle in the wind - it remains

I would send the missing PT's template



* edit, received email lol - thanks

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: The SaltnVinegar UE Diary

HSBC & Wescot keep on about pay with Credit Card !!! tut tut

Apparently they are allowed to - I used this argument when I was speaking to OFT and they said it was fine because using a credit card is not getting more into debt. I said "are you taking the piss" and the woman stated "If you can afford to meet the repayments of the credit card then it is up to you if you use it to repay other debts. We cannot tell DCA's not to offer this as a payment method".

Wankers, the lot of em!

[The Tech Clerk]

Re: The SaltnVinegar UE Diary

HSBC & Wescot keep on about pay with Credit Card !!! tut tut

[SaltnVinegar]

Re: The SaltnVinegar UE Diary

Hiya

Well, the cover letter is quite important lol. That's why I asked to see it mate, please be clear - does it say "please find attached a copy of the original...." or does it say "please find attached a reconstituted copy...."

The fact they are presenting their own original copy as the agreement could suggest either but they must tell you if it is a recon within the cover letter

Yes, without the terms that are quite clearly referred to on numerous occasion throughout that agreement, this is temporarily unenforceable.

Ah right understood! For benefit of all I'll repeat verbatim the covering letter and then I'll scan and email it to you in a bit. I note they use the term 'opening' agreement as opposed to 'original' agreement.

I also won't comment (for now) that they are requesting I could pay the balance by credit card. In other words encouraging me to go further into debt to pay off another one. This sort of thing I know is frowned upon by the OFT.

Anyway.........

Dear Sir/Madam

Client Reference: xxxxxxx
Wescot Reference Number: xxxxxxx
Client: xxxxxxxxx
Balance: xxxxxx

We refer to your recent communication regarding the above account; please find enclosed copy opening agreement as requested.

Payment is now required and can be made by Debit Card/Credit Card (subject to acceptance) by calling the Wescot Payment Hotline on 0844 824 1155 or pay online at Wescot Payment.

Alternatively telephone us to set up a direct debit or standing order. You can also pay using Paypoint or by sending a cheque or postal order to the address below. Please ensure your Wescot reference number is enclosed at all times.

In certain circumstances we can agree a monthly instalment plan by contacting our offices on 0844 824 1155 between 08:00 and 21:00 Monday to Friday, 08:00 to 16:00 Saturday and 09:00 to 16:00 Sunday.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: The SaltnVinegar UE Diary

Thanks Niddy

You have exactly what Wescot sent me (which I know is not a lot!)

The cover letter basically said something like:

"Enclosed is the CCA you requested. We have complied with your CCA request, therefore now cough up'.

I'm guessing then, no terms it is UE?! (At least for the moment)......

Best
SnV

Hiya

Well, the cover letter is quite important lol. That's why I asked to see it mate, please be clear - does it say "please find attached a copy of the original...." or does it say "please find attached a reconstituted copy...."

The fact they are presenting their own original copy as the agreement could suggest either but they must tell you if it is a recon within the cover letter

Yes, without the terms that are quite clearly referred to on numerous occasion throughout that agreement, this is temporarily unenforceable.

[SaltnVinegar]

Re: The SaltnVinegar UE Diary

Do you have the cover letter and terms please mate? The agreement refers to plenty of clauses that we need to tally with the terms. Without them, I'm stuck..

Cheers

Thanks Niddy

You have exactly what Wescot sent me (which I know is not a lot!)

The cover letter basically said something like:

"Enclosed is the CCA you requested. We have complied with your CCA request, therefore now cough up'.

I'm guessing then, no terms it is UE?! (At least for the moment)......

Best
SnV

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: The SaltnVinegar UE Diary

Do you have the cover letter and terms please mate? The agreement refers to plenty of clauses that we need to tally with the terms. Without them, I'm stuck..

Cheers

[SaltnVinegar]

Re: The SaltnVinegar UE Diary

Wasteclot and Nelson Gits are so useless I would just blag it with a missing PTs letter whether it is enforceable or not. They never know the difference so why should anyone else?

The other arguments are perfectly valid, but keep them in reserve for when they might be needed.

SH

Thanks SH. I'll wait and see what response I get back from Niddy but that'll definately be next step if it turns out to be non UE.

Wetcloths have a few of my accounts now. The Overdraft CCA request certainly threw the cat among the pigeons when they got that

[SaltnVinegar]

Re: The SaltnVinegar UE Diary

The May be!s etc

O yes lots of 'mays'

[SaltnVinegar]

Re: The SaltnVinegar UE Diary

Black Horse:

• Type of account - Personal Loan
  
  
• Date commenced - Pre April 2007
  
  
• Approx balance - Approx £1200
  
  
• Date last full payment - Feb/March 2010?
  
  
• Are you on arrangement or not paying - Arrangement (stopped DMP payments July 2012)
  
  
• Status - Defaulted, but can't remember getting a DN
  
  
• Account owner - Wescot

Blue - Communication Sent
Red - Communication Received

10/8/2012 - Notice of arrears received
20/8/2012 - Letter from Nationwide Collection Services Limited stating that I am overdue a payment on my payment arrangement
21/8/2012 - Payment break letter sent
29/8/2012 - Letter from Black Horse stating that they will reduce interest on agreement to 0%
3/9/2012 - Letter from Wescot introducing themselves
14/9/2012 - Letter from Wescot with I/E form asking me to complete to allow them to assess my ability to pay the debt
6/10/2012 - Letter from Wescot that they have established I live at my address and they may take further collection activity
24/10/2012 - Letter from Nelson Guest & Partners Solicitors
29/10/2012 - CCA Request sent to Wescot
1/12/2012 - CCA response from Wescot
3/12/2012 - CCA sent to Niddy

CCA now been sent to Niddy for examination.