Which Way to Go?

[Still Waving]

Re: Which Way to Go?

Thanks vint1954.

Sent on Saturday and waiting patiently, though I'm pretty certain I know what he will say.

[ScabHunter]

Re: Which Way to Go?

Indeed, send off to Niddy. He is quite busy at the moment, so do be patient he will respond

Quite busy! If Niddy was ever only quite busy, he'd die of boredom!

SH

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Which Way to Go?

Thanks vint1954.

Sent on Saturday and waiting patiently, though I'm pretty certain I know what he will say.

Yep, it's

Amazingly it's a full copy of the whole application, terms and reply envelope

Obviously Bradford & Bingley were good at retaining records.... bummer - sorry

[Still Waving]

Re: Which Way to Go?

Thanks for taking a look Niddy.

I think I'll send Our Templates | Unenforceability Templates | CCA Query - Application Form Received
anyway, and see what happens.

Incidentally, when a creditor sends a statement of account under CCA1974, what period is it supposed to cover?

[Still Waving]

Re: Which Way to Go?

I've just read a post from Niddy last month on another thread,

allaboutFORUMS - View Single Post - Experto Writing Requesting Signed Letter

part of which is -

The emphasis in the Carey case on section 78 appears to have obscured the real claim that exists under section 61(1)(a) and 127(3) of the Act. These sections dictate that a creditor must be able to produce a signed document (not necessarily the credit agreement) that contains the prescribed terms. The document must include the credit limit, the interest rate and details of how and when a debtor is to discharge his payment obligations. A failure to produce such a document is still capable of rendering the agreement irredeemably unenforceable.

If the creditor can produce a signed application form which contains prescribed terms, but which says
“(i) We will determine and notify your credit limit (credit limit) to you from time to time.”
but there is no specific credit limit mentioned in the form, does that affect the situation at all? ("Sign this kid, I'll fill it in later.")


Thanks.

[Still Waving]

Re: Which Way to Go?

The current T&Cs say

"1.Your credit limit

1.1 We will choose your initial credit limit and tell you what it is after we have opened your account."

[SXGuy]

Re: Which Way to Go?

I thought i read somewhere that it doesnt have to show your credit limit, but an example on how interest is applied to an example credit limit?

Maybe im wrong.

EDIT: found an old post by the nidship himself from MSE lol

Prescribed Terms

A Amount of credit
A term stating the amount of credit

B Repayments
A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following-

(a) Number of repayments;
(b) Amount of repayments;
(c) Frequency and timing of repayments;
(d) Dates of repayments;
(e) The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable.

C Rate of interest
A term stating the rate of interest to be applied to the credit issued under the agreement

D Credit limit
This may be a term or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit.

Which of these applies to you depends on the type of agreement you have?

For a Running Account (credit card) agreement

BC and D is applicable

For a Restricted Use Debtor Creditor Supplier

• Where the dealer is the supplier and the creditor is the one providing the finance.
• The money can only be used for the purpose it is given.
• There is no interest on the purchase (the cash price is the same as the total price)
• And there is no advance payment

A is applicable

For a fixed Sum Credit Agreement
A conventional credit agreement with none of the above restrictions

A and B is applicable

For a Hire Agreement

B is Applicable

So looks like a credit card does not need to show a credit limit.

[Still Waving]

Re: Which Way to Go?

Hi all, another update.

Originally Posted by NotDrowningButWaving


Credit card 4 Mint/RBS. – Taken out during 90's (I think)
Balance approx. £8,750
Last full monthly repayment May 2010
DMP payments since then.
Last DMP payment May 2012.
Being administered by lender


02/08/12 CCA 1974 request sent to RBS
15/08/12 Reply received from Mint re CCA request. They have returned my postal order, and the gist of their letter is"I am unable to deal with your request due to, (ticked as appropriate)
s78 request received, however this has been returned to you as we require your signature before we can proceed. Please sign your request for information and return ....."
29/08/12 sent CCA Request - Demand of Signature by Creditor letter to Mint/RBS.
05/09/12 RBS letter- "THIS IS A FINAL DEMAND FOR PAYMENT - We currently require (the full amount) from you. If we do not receive a payment within the next 14 days, the account will be sent to a debt collection agent. Even at this late stage ........ discuss a repayment programme"

15/09/12 sent RBS a brief letter reminding that CCA 1974 request is outstanding.
29/10/12 RBS letter - “Details have been passed to Moorcroft to act as collection agent.” - Ignored.
24/11/12 Moorcroft letter - “IMPORTANT INFORMATION – POSSIBLE FURTHER ACTION. …. please send your payment proposal ….. if not … recommend possible further debt recovery action. Contact us now …. in certain circumstances we may be able to offer a substantial discount ...” - Ignored.
11/12/12 Moorcroft letter - “Monthly Instalment Offer …... An illustration of the kind of figure ...£120 per month … clear balance in 73 months … failure to respond ... recommend taking further debt recovery action ...Do not ignore this letter.”


Ignore??
Or send Account Sold whilst in Dispute letter??
Suggestions?? Thanks.

[MrsD]

Re: Which Way to Go?

account sold in dispute would be what I'd do (have done!!!)

[Still Waving]

Re: Which Way to Go?

Hi all, an update.

Credit card 6 Capital 1. – Taken out 2002
Balance approx. £440
Last full monthly repayment May 2010
DMP payments since then.
Last DMP payment May 2012.
Being administered by lender


02/08/12CCA request sent.17/08/12Cap1 sent Recon agreement. Niddy said - the terms are a recon but not relevant to the product I signed up for.
07/09/12Sent Missing Prescribed Terms letter.
Two letters received from Cap1 on 01/10/12:-
First letter dated 25/09/12 – a long repetitive and waffling response to the MPT letter claiming they have fulfilled their CCA obligations. I would like to send this one to Niddy for an opinion as to how to respond.
Second letter dated 27/09/12 – “Account has been referred to Fredrickson International.” I shall do nothing on this one until I hear from Fredrickson in writing. So far they have attempted to contact me by phone twice in the past two days.
Letter dated 02/10/12 received from Fredrickson - "Cap1 have passed this account to us for collection ......As we have been appointed as their agent you should now make sure you contact us and not Cap1. ..... Our client now requires payment in full to avoid further action. ....You must phone us immediately ....."
08/10/12 Account Sold whilst in Dispute (including para re phone harassment) letter sent.
Fredrickson letter 11/10/12 - “We would be grateful if you will note that we are no longer instructed to act in connection with this matter. We have passed your letter to our clients and would be grateful if you will address all further correspondence with them direct.”
Since 22/11/12 there were several calls from Freds, some voicemail and some missed. None were responded to.
04/12/12 Freds letter “LETTER BEFORE ACTION … legal action is now being considered. Should it be necessary to issue proceedings in the County Court further additional fees will be added to the balance outstanding (fees and new balance set out)"
08/12/12 Threat-O-Gram LBA letter sent.
17/12/12 Freds letter - “We have referred this matter to our client ….”
19/12/12 Freds letter - “We have provided details of your dispute to our client, and have now recived a response from them which indicates that the debt details are correct... Please phone us ...”

Since they have not referred specifically to dated letters from themselves or from me, it is unclear whether or not this letter is a follow up to their letter of two days before. It seems a bit too soon to me. However, I've drafted the following which I'm thinking of sending.

“Thank you for your letter dated 19 December 2012, in which you have asked me to telephone you. Please be aware that I will only communicate with you in writing.

You state that your client has indicated that the alleged debt details are correct. However I informed them by letter dated 7 September 2012 that they had failed to comply with my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 to supply a true copy of the executed credit agreement.

Your client's position in their letter of 25 September 2012 is that they have complied with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act, and that they will not enter into any further correspondence regarding the provision of copy agreements. However they further state in the same letter that they do not retain the originals of signed agreements.

We appear therefore to be at an impasse over this disputed matter. Furthermore, I note from your letter to me dated 11 October 2012 that you were no longer instructed to act in connection with this matter. I am not clear therefore why you have begun writing to me again.

Yours faithfully”


Comments please?

[MrsD]

Re: Which Way to Go?

personally I would take out the bit about them saying they have complied, just leave the bit about them saying they have no agreement.

the rest looks good and yes I agree with you, this is a case of some numpty pressing a variety of buttons before they popped off for Christmas.

try not to worry

[Still Waving]

Re: Which Way to Go?

personally I would take out the bit about them saying they have complied, just leave the bit about them saying they have no agreement.

The thing is, it's not one of the "We can't find an agreement" type of letters. It's pages of waffle about what they are allowed to produce .. blah blah ... and how what they have produced complies ..."

Interestingly though, after saying that they don't retain the original of an agreement but only scan the signature portion, they also waffle on with a list of what actions do not constitute enforcement.

[PriorityOne]

Re: Which Way to Go?

The thing is, it's not one of the "We can't find an agreement" type of letters. It's pages of waffle about what they are allowed to produce .. blah blah ... and how what they have produced complies ..."

Interestingly though, after saying that they don't retain the original of an agreement but only scan the signature portion, they also waffle on with a list of what actions do not constitute enforcement.

In my experience, that's the kind of waffle that gets sent out prior to an account being sold. They know that they'd have trouble getting it through the courts but hope that you won't....

[MrsD]

Re: Which Way to Go?

got exactly the same x 2, one each for us

they say they don't keep the agreements, just the wee signed bits (no use at all to man nor beast)
so put in your letter exactly what they said about the agreement, they haven't retained it. You aren't telling any lies if you repeat exactly what they said, Freds will then piss off into the night...............

[Still Waving]

Re: Which Way to Go?

Thanks MrsD - I'll rewrite the entire 3rd para.