Which Way to Go?

[ScabHunter]

Re: Which Way to Go?

Hi all - an update




I decided to ignore for the time being.
11/02/13 - FINAL DEMAND letter from Arden. - "If you continue to ignore requests for payment proposals ..... this may mean a visit to your home ... or account being passed to solicitors to initiate legal proceedings ...."

I think that now I should send another SWID letter.

You could do that, or refer them to the old one which they still haven't bothered to deal with. If you were going to refer them after this length of time, you would really need to include a copy of the original anyway.

This rabble obviously just send out templates by machine without bothering to read anything which is sent to them, so the paper trail is really being created for the benefit of any potential future judge.

SH

[Still Waving]

Re: Which Way to Go?

Thanks SH. I will do one or t'other.

[Still Waving]

Re: Which Way to Go?

Hi. A brief update.

Quote:

Credit card 2 MBNA. – Taken out early 90's
Balance approx. £8,500
Last full monthly repayment May 2010
DMP payments since then.
“Sold” to Idem Capital securities Ltd (Paragon Personal Finance Ltd) by lender beginning 2012
Last DMP payment May 2012.

02/08/12 CCA request sent.
No response until Idem letter 20/10/12 “ We need to speak with you . We do not have an ongoing payment arrangement in place upon your account. As a consequence of this your account will be reviewed for placement with an external DCA within the next 7 days. …... Please contact us ...” Ignored.
Idem letter 6/11/12 - “Your account will now be transferred to Arden CM …..”Ignored.
Arden letter 8/11/12 - “We have been instructed …....”Ignored
12/11/12 Idem statement of account Jan to Nov 2012 “In compliance with CCA 1974.”Ignored
22/11/12 Arden letter “Failure to come to an acceptable arrangement with us could result in us taking further action … the options available to us are: Sending a rep to your address; Passing your account to our solicitors to obtain Judgment and seek enforcement action in line with your circumstances. The above actions have the potential of increasing your current balance”
28/11/12 sent Sold while in Dispute letter, including a para re telephone harassment.
Arden letter dated 3/12/12 - “We are writing to confirm that the present situation of non-payment on the above account is not acceptable. Blah, blah, blah …... Should you choose to do nothing we may take further action ….... this may include instructing an agent to attend your property ….. We may also initiate legal action.”
12/12/12 sent brief acknowledgement referring to my SWID letter of 28/11/12.
06/12/12 Idem letter (rec'd 14/12/12) enclosing response to CCA request of 02/08/12. Niddy says EN.

17/12/12 -Arden FINAL DEMAND letter.
03/01/13 Sent letter to Arden referring to my letters of 27/11 and 12/12, neither of which has been acknowledged in their subsequent correspondence.
11/01/13 Arden letter - “ …. as we have not been able to make contact with you we believe it is necessary to appoint an external company “Resolvecall” to attend your property …. A fee for the visit may be charged to your account and may be subject to ongoing interest application. The maximum fee we are permitted to charge you will not exceed £100 but is likely to be less.
We hope at this stage …. but if we do not hear within 5 days of the date of this letter(sent 2nd class and received today)Resolvecall will schedule your account for a visit and a fee may be levied on completion.”
17/01/13 sent a letter to Arden referring them to my SWID letter, and incorporating Doorstep Visit threat response.
28/01/13 Received undated letter from Arden, a fairly soft template enclosing I&E form. Ignored.
24/01/13 Arden letter (rec'd 31/01) , thanks me for my latest letter, and points out that a copy agreement was sent to me on 06/12/12, and asking if I have received it. (it was on Idem headed paper, but I have not responded directly to that letter). See Niddy's view above.

04/02/13 Sent Arden a version of the Application Form Received letter.
Resolvecall letter 06/02/13 - "Instructed by Arden... if you do not contact Arden this may lead to personal visit..."
08/02/13 Idem letter (sent recorded delivery) re mine of 04/02. - "Whilst we note your comments we have supplied the appropriate documentation in response to Sec. 77/78 CCA 74 request .... provided by MBNA ... represents the agreement between debtor & creditor. We have fully complied..... deem debt enforceable."
12/02/13 I sent Doorstep Threat response letters to Arden/Resolvecall.

Letter ping-pong with Resolvecall, ending with "... we are currently no longer dealing ..."
15/02/13 An odd Arden letter - "Thank you for your recent offer of payment. (????) .... Please supply I&E details....."

Having waited to see what would be the next move following Idem letter of 08/02, I'm not sure how to respond to this ( apart from pointing out that I made no offer).

Any suggestions please?

28/02/13 sent brief letter to Arden as above.
25/02/13 Arden letter (rec'd today) advising that their client Idem Servicing has instructed Freds to collect.

This is being blagged. I suppose it is generally a positive thing (from my point of view) that this has been passed from the in-house 'credit management' to an outside DCA??

[ScabHunter]

Re: Which Way to Go?

This is being blagged. I suppose it is generally a positive thing (from my point of view) that this has been passed from the in-house 'credit management' to an outside DCA??

Yes, that is a highly positive sign. If they were about to litigate, why would they waste their time getting outsiders involved?

Freds are absolutely relentless with threats, but they have been seen off successfully by many AAD members. At some point, they will probably get the notorious corrupt solicitor Bryan "Brain Farter" Carter involved. He is a pathetic bully who looks for easy targets, and can be overcome by standing up to him.

It is probably going to be to your advantage that Freds are so difficult to shake off, because it absorbs more time before the next shower get involved. Whatever happens, you're obviously more than knowledgeable enough to cope with it.

SH

[Still Waving]

Re: Which Way to Go?

Thanks for the comments SH.

Freds are being a pain in the ass over a UE Cap1 a/c of less than £500, so I have some idea of what to expect from them.

[Still Waving]

Re: Which Way to Go?

24/01/13 Sent letter to Apex demanding they acknowledge misappropriation of my £1 and confirm that the transaction has been reversed.
30/01/13 SWID sent to Moorcroft.

02/02/13 rec'd Moorcroft 30/01/13 letter - "POSSIBLE FURTHER ACTION". As this crossed with my letter I am simply filing it.

31/01/13 Apex letter - "Investigating your concerns ... will write to you again .....enc copy of our internal Complaint Procedure ...."

01/02/13 Moorcroft letter - " thank you ... letter requesting copy of the credit agreement. (No!) However under CCA74 you must pay £1 fee ... if you submit payment we will gladly process your request." They have returned with it my SWID letter of 30/01/13.


I'm not sure how to respond to this one. I'm still waiting on Apex to correct their misappropriation of my original fee. Should I perhaps return the SWID letter to Moorcroft, telling them to read it properly, and pointing out that the fee was submitted with my original CCA 74 request? That would help to pass the time a little. (That's what I did)

Hi all
An update regarding LloydsTSB account and the misappropriation of my £1 statutory fee by Apex back in October 2012. (the account was recently passed to Moorcrap).

I sent a letter of complaint to Apex in January and subsequently received an acknowledgement that the complaint was being investigated. I have now received a 'final response' containing some nonsense excuse as to why they did not reverse the transaction as had been previously demanded by me in November. They have enclosed a cheque for £1.

I am not entirely satisfied with their statement that they have arranged for the payment to be removed from the account as, to my way of thinking, that is not confirmation. Also, they are no longer instructed so they say that future enquiries need to be made directly to the OC.

I am considering sending Apex something along the following lines, and would be grateful for any comment on the adviseability or otherwise, and also on the content generally. Many thanks in advance.


"I refer to your letter dated xx/xx/13, in response to my complaint regarding your unlawful misappropriation of my Statutory Fee of £1.00. I note that you state that it is your final response on the matter, however I do not consider the matter to be yet closed.

Your claim that your letters dated xx/xx/12 and xx/xx/12 justify your actions is clearly nonsense, as my letter dated xx/xx/12 clearly stated that the payment was only to be used for the purpose intended by me, and my letter dated xx/xx/12 clearly demanded that you recover the payment from where you had posted it.

I am sure that the regulatory authorities and the courts would take the view that these letters had made my wishes perfectly clear without the need for any further confirmation. Notwithstanding that, you continued to disregard my stipulations.

To clarify another point, I did not in my letter dated xx/xx/ 13 ask for the payment to be returned, I merely demanded that it be recovered from this disputed debt account. I note however that you have sent a cheque for £1.00.

I am not entirely satisfied with your statement that you have arranged for the payment to be removed from the account. What I required from you was confirmation that it had been removed. I note that the account has been recalled by LloydsTSB, but that does not absolve you from the responsibility for and consequences of your actions.

I do not think it is for me to follow up with your client to ensure that your misappropriation has been corrected on the account, rather that it is for you to do and then so confirm to me. Notwithstanding, if I find at some future point that the transaction has not been reversed, I put you on notice now that I will immediately make formal complaints to the OFT and theFOS,providing them with full details of your (mis)conduct regarding my Statutory Fee payment.

NDBW"

[Still Waving]

Re: Which Way to Go?

Quote:

Credit card 2 MBNA. – Taken out early 90's
Balance approx. £8,500
Last full monthly repayment May 2010
DMP payments since then.
“Sold” to Idem Capital securities Ltd (Paragon Personal Finance Ltd) by lender beginning 2012
Last DMP payment May 2012.

02/08/12 CCA request sent.
No response until Idem letter 20/10/12 “ We need to speak with you . We do not have an ongoing payment arrangement in place upon your account. As a consequence of this your account will be reviewed for placement with an external DCA within the next 7 days. …... Please contact us ...” Ignored.
Idem letter 6/11/12 - “Your account will now be transferred to Arden CM …..”Ignored.
Arden letter 8/11/12 - “We have been instructed …....”Ignored
12/11/12 Idem statement of account Jan to Nov 2012 “In compliance with CCA 1974.”Ignored
22/11/12 Arden letter “Failure to come to an acceptable arrangement with us could result in us taking further action … the options available to us are: Sending a rep to your address; Passing your account to our solicitors to obtain Judgment and seek enforcement action in line with your circumstances. The above actions have the potential of increasing your current balance”
28/11/12 sent Sold while in Dispute letter, including a para re telephone harassment.
Arden letter dated 3/12/12 - “We are writing to confirm that the present situation of non-payment on the above account is not acceptable. Blah, blah, blah …... Should you choose to do nothing we may take further action ….... this may include instructing an agent to attend your property ….. We may also initiate legal action.”
12/12/12 sent brief acknowledgement referring to my SWID letter of 28/11/12.
06/12/12 Idem letter (rec'd 14/12/12) enclosing response to CCA request of 02/08/12. Niddy says EN.

17/12/12 -Arden FINAL DEMAND letter.
03/01/13 Sent letter to Arden referring to my letters of 27/11 and 12/12, neither of which has been acknowledged in their subsequent correspondence.
11/01/13 Arden letter - “ …. as we have not been able to make contact with you we believe it is necessary to appoint an external company “Resolvecall” to attend your property …. A fee for the visit may be charged to your account and may be subject to ongoing interest application. The maximum fee we are permitted to charge you will not exceed £100 but is likely to be less.
We hope at this stage …. but if we do not hear within 5 days of the date of this letter(sent 2nd class and received today)Resolvecall will schedule your account for a visit and a fee may be levied on completion.”
17/01/13 sent a letter to Arden referring them to my SWID letter, and incorporating Doorstep Visit threat response.
28/01/13 Received undated letter from Arden, a fairly soft template enclosing I&E form. Ignored.
24/01/13 Arden letter (rec'd 31/01) , thanks me for my latest letter, and points out that a copy agreement was sent to me on 06/12/12, and asking if I have received it. (it was on Idem headed paper, but I have not responded directly to that letter). See Niddy's view above.

04/02/13 Sent Arden a version of the Application Form Received letter.
Resolvecall letter 06/02/13 - "Instructed by Arden... if you do not contact Arden this may lead to personal visit..."
08/02/13 Idem letter (sent recorded delivery) re mine of 04/02. - "Whilst we note your comments we have supplied the appropriate documentation in response to Sec. 77/78 CCA 74 request .... provided by MBNA ... represents the agreement between debtor & creditor. We have fully complied..... deem debt enforceable."
12/02/13 I sent Doorstep Threat response letters to Arden/Resolvecall.

Letter ping-pong with Resolvecall, ending with "... we are currently no longer dealing ..."
15/02/13 An odd Arden letter - "Thank you for your recent offer of payment. (????) .... Please supply I&E details....."
28/02/13 sent brief letter to Arden pointing out no offer made.
25/02/13 Arden letter (rec'd 01/03) advising that their client Idem Servicing has instructed Freds to collect.

Update:
06/03/13 Freds letter - "DO NOT IGNORE. IMMEDIATE PAYMENT REQUIRED. We are authorised .... to secure repayment of the debt."

Will be sending a SWID letter.

[The Tech Clerk]

Re: Which Way to Go?

Freds will run then!

[Still Waving]

Re: Which Way to Go?

Hi TC.

LOL, if only ....

[Still Waving]

Re: Which Way to Go?

Update:-

Originally Posted by NotDrowningButWaving

Quote:

Credit card 1 MBNA. – Taken out early 90's
Balance approx. £12,000
Last full monthly repayment May 2010
DMP payments since then.
“Sold” to Idem Capital securities Ltd (Paragon Personal Finance Ltd) by lender beginning 2012
Last DMP payment May 2012.

02/08/12 CCA request sent.
01/09/12 Idem sent copy application. Niddy says EN.
However - 12/09/12 Missing Prescribed Terms letter sent.
23/10/12 Idem letter - “We need to speak with you – please contact us ...” No other comments.
Ignored.
30/10/12. Idem letter “account will now be transferred to Arden Credit Management …...” Ignored.
01/11/12. Arden letter “ ...We have assumed responsibility for working with you to repay this amount ….”Ignored
12/11/12. Idem statement of account since 27/01/12 “in compliance with CCA 1974.” Ignored.
15/11/12. Arden letter “Failure to come to an acceptable arrangement with us could result in us taking further action … the options available to us are: Sending a rep to your address; Passing your account to our solicitors to obtain Judgment and seek enforcement action in line with your circumstances. The above actions have the potential of increasing your current balance” (due to charges).
18+ missed calls and voicemail messages from Arden since 15/11/12, including one from a withheld number. Told them if they wish to communicate they must do it in writing, yet the calls continued.

23/11/12 sent SWID letter, incorporating “no more phone calls”, to Arden.
26/11/12 Arden letter - “Present situation of non-payment not acceptable …. should you choose to do nothing we may have to take further action ….”
10/12/12 Referred Arden to my letter dated 23/11/12.
21/01/13 Arden letter (Rec'd 26/01) - “very concerned you have not taken steps to address outstanding balance … failure … could result in further action: options available to us are – sending representative to call on you; passing your account to our solicitors to obtain judgment and seek enforcement action ( could include charging orders and attachment of earnings) … CCJs affect your credit rating … extremely urgent, you should not ignore.” Identical to their 15/11/12 letter.
28/01/13 received undated Arden letter enclosing I&E form. “... Please complete ….”
01/02/13 Arden letter (rec'd 07/02) – identical to their letter of 26/11/12. - Ignored

11/02/13 - FINAL DEMAND letter from Arden.
02/03/13 Sent Arden another SWID letter.

08/03/13 Arden letter - "As we have not been able to contact you ... necessary to appoint Resolvecall to attend your property ...." - I feel a 'Doorstep Visit' letter coming on.
12/03/13 Arden letter - "Thank you for your complaint .... we will be conducting a thorough investigation into your concerns ....." - This is in reply to my SWID letter, which they are actually addressing this time.

[Still Waving]

Re: Which Way to Go?

Another update:-

.
Credit card 3 Bank of Scotland. – Taken out early 90's
Balance approx. £13,200
Last full monthly repayment May 2010
DMP payments since then.
Last DMP payment May 2012.
Being administered originally by Blair Oliver Scott

2/8/12 CCA letter sent.
14/8/12 date of BoS response – Niddy says Unenforceable.
20/8/12 date of letter from Blair Oliver Scott “Contact us within 5 days, or else.”.
28/8/12 Missing Prescribed Terms letter sent to BoS.
29/8/12 Account in Dispute/Harassment & Threat of Doorstep Visit letter sent to Blair O.S.
4/9/12 received letter dated 28/8/12 from Blair O.S. - "Notice of Intended Court Action. Sum claimed due by 4/9/12."
15/9/12 Letter from Bank of Scotland (dated 22 May 2012) in response to my Missing Prescribed Terms letter of 28/08/12. They said that as they cannot produce the original T&Cs they will not seek to enforce, however even if an agreement is unenforceable it is not void and they will continue with normal collections activities.
Letter dated 19/9/12 from BoS Credit Operations Rosyth (but with a Salford return address) "We have arranged for Robinson Way to collect the outstanding amount."
Letter dated 24/9/12 from Robinson Way, Salford - "Important... do not ignore. If you do not agree a payment plan with us we may advise our client to start court action. .......... This account may continue to be a worry for you ........ Unpaid debts don't just go away."
25/9/12. Voicemail message from Rob-Way - "Contact us."
26/09/12 letter to RobWay enclosing copy of BoS letter of 15/09/12 (above), also requesting phone calls cease.
RobWay letter 03/10/12 - “We note that BoS confirmed they will continue normal collections.”Ignored.
RobWay letter 04/10/12 - “We are authorised to negotiate repayment of the account with you ...ACT NOW!”Ignored.
BoS letter 30/10/12 “We've transferred your BoS Credit Card to RobWay. Please contact RobWay ...”Ignored.
RobWay letter 02/11/12 - "Important... do not ignore. If you do not agree a payment plan with us we may advise our client to start court action. .......... This account may continue to be a worry for you ........ Unpaid debts don't just go away."Ignored.
RobWay letter 14/11/12 - “Immediate Action Required …Call us.... if you fail to pay and neglect to deal with this account further action may be taken to recover the amount due.”Ignored.
RobWay letter 28/11/12 - “Ring us today, we can agree a reduced balance you can pay to settle, and you may even be able to pay the reduced amount by instalments you can afford. ...”
Ignored.
Robway letter 12/12/12 - “APPOINTMENT FOR HOME VISIT. ...May be sent to our local rep in 10 days ….”
20/12/12 sent Threat of Doorstep Visit letter to RobWay.
Horwich Farrelly (Sols) letter 31/12/12 (from Robway's address) - “Creditor BOS. We have been instructed by the above…. Court action may be taken... you can avoid court proceedings ... Payment and proposals to Robway. Remember, Court action may increase the amount you owe ….”

08/01/13 sent Letter Previously Confirming No CCA to Horwich Farrelly.

19/01/13 and 24/01/13 letters rec'd from BoS and Wetcloths “we've transferred your Bank of Scotland credit card to Wetcloths ….”
30/01/13 sent SWID to Wetcloths.
12/02/13 Wetcloths letter acknowledging query and suspending collections activity while under investigation. Filed.
09/03/13 Wetcloths - “FINAL NOTICE – We have not received a reply to our previous correspondence … threat, threat ….” WTF?? Silly sods.

[vint1954]

Re: Which Way to Go?

They are confused.

Send them a doorstep visit letter for good measure

[Still Waving]

Re: Which Way to Go?

[Still Waving]

Re: Which Way to Go?

Hi all. An update -

Credit card 4 Mint/RBS. – Taken out during 90's (I think)
Balance approx. £8,750
Last full monthly repayment May 2010
DMP payments since then.
Last DMP payment May 2012.
Being administered by lender


02/08/12 CCA 1974 request sent to RBS
15/08/12 Reply received from Mint re CCA request. They have returned my postal order, and the gist of their letter is"I am unable to deal with your request due to, (ticked as appropriate)
s78 request received, however this has been returned to you as we require your signature before we can proceed. Please sign your request for information and return ....."
29/08/12 sent CCA Request - Demand of Signature by Creditor letter to Mint/RBS.
05/09/12 RBS letter- "THIS IS A FINAL DEMAND FOR PAYMENT - We currently require (the full amount) from you. If we do not receive a payment within the next 14 days, the account will be sent to a debt collection agent. Even at this late stage ........ discuss a repayment programme"
15/09/12 sent RBS a brief letter reminding that CCA 1974 request is outstanding.
29/10/12 RBS letter - “Details have been passed to Moorcroft to act as collection agent.” - Ignored.
24/11/12 Moorcroft letter - “IMPORTANT INFORMATION – POSSIBLE FURTHER ACTION. …. please send your payment proposal ….. if not … recommend possible further debt recovery action. Contact us now …. in certain circumstances we may be able to offer a substantial discount ...” - Ignored.
11/12/12 Moorcroft letter - “Monthly Instalment Offer …... An illustration of the kind of figure ...£120 per month … clear balance in 73 months … failure to respond ... recommend taking further debt recovery action ...Do not ignore this letter.”
18/12/12 Sent Account Sold w i Dispute letter to Moorcroft
27/12/12 letter from Midas Credit Services - “WARNING OF POSSIBLE FURTHER ACTION - We are part of the Moorcroft Group ….. As no agreement has been reached we have been asked to review your account to consider the steps which may be taken ….. options include recommending one of the following: Continue our attempts to contact you by letter and phone; …. arrange to call at your home address; … referral for consideration by our Litigation Selection Team. To prevent … you must contact Moorcroft ….Failure to contact Moorcroft ….”
08/01/13 Letter to Midas CSreferring them to my letter to Moorcroft Debt Recovery dated 18/12/12.
09/01/13 Letter from MoorcroftHome Collections Division - “DISCOUNT OFFER - ….failed to make any payment to us ...passed to Home Collections Division for action. This may involve local rep calling at your home....
client has authorised us to consider a discounted settlement figure …Depending on your circumstances we may be able to offer you; A reduction of up to 20% subject to your personal circumstances ...Greater discounts may be available to you and can often vary, dependent on your personal circumstances ….The option of paying the agreed settlement figure over a period of up to 3 months subject to terms & conditions. …if no satisfactory arrangement made with us or our local representative … recommend to our client ...commence further recovery action.”
17/01/13 letter to Moorcroft reminding them that a/c SWID along with a Doorstep Visit letter.
17/01/13 Moorcroft letter (received 22/01/13) - “ Thank you for your recently received letter requesting a copy of your credit agreement ( No!) … client has confirmed that you must put your request in writing to the following address ….”

28/02/13 sent letter in response to further follow up from Moorcroft, pointing out that I had already twice requested CCA info from RBS along with fee.
04/03/13 Moorcroft letter. They are communicating with client and meantime action will be suspended. Filed

12/03/13 Moorcroft letter - "Client advises that they have received your CCA request, however they have requested that you sign your request ......"

As I have already sent a Demand of Signature by Creditor letter direct to RBS months ago, I think I will file this and await the next follow up.

[ScabHunter]

Re: Which Way to Go?

I think I will file this and await the next follow up.

That is what I would do. If they want to waste their own time being silly, why stop them? It doesn't alter the fact that the request enters default after 14 days, because there is no provision in the Consumer Credit Act 1974 which allows the alleged creditor to make compliance conditional upon any specific action on behalf of the alleged debtor.

SH