Help Needed. MBNA redress calculations Do you have two spare stamps

[colonelsensibl]

Re: Help Needed. MBNA redress calculations Do you have two spare stamps

Hi a newbie here with an interesting, perhaps even outrageous, example of MBNA understating PPI recompense.

Background: I took out an MBNA credit card in Manchester Airport in August, 2000. Saleswoman completed the form (with PPI ticked) except for my signature. Circumstances in 2003 caused wife and I to seek help from CCCS and start a debt management plan. Last PPI payment my MBNA card was 11/12/2003.

Update: In April this year I complained to MBNA about PPI payments and quickly (to their credit) they came back with a letter saying that the complaint was upheld to the tune of:
£1412.63 PPI premiums, £280.20 associated interest and £136.23 applicable 8% gross interest (less £27.23 withholding tax).

I reflected on this, and thought "that £136.23 seems low". So SAR'd MBNA, and spent the last weekend reconstructing my account, and entering it into one of the Semiantics spreadsheets (V2.4, 25/10/12).

This showed that the "applicable 8% interest" totalled over £1400! So I double-checked using GCE Maths (or earlier) I=PRT; I=Interest, P=Principal, R=Rate of Interest, T=Time

From above, P(=£1412.63+£280.20)xR(=0.08)xT(=10.4575 years, from 11/12/03 to 27/5/14, date of MBNA letter), =£(1692.83x0.08x10.45), = £1416.22.

So you have found instances of 30%-50% shortfalls. I reckon this one is up there with them, at about 42% shortfall

[MattyA]

Re: Help Needed. MBNA redress calculations Do you have two spare stamps

Well done and good on ya.
I found the same and argued for a while , but needed the money so settled before I received what I believed was the correct sum due.
In light of the recent reports in the press I will re open my fights with them.
Have you included your default sums and interest on these in your calculations.
You are on the right track - DONT give up.
Good luck
Matty

[Bill-K]

Re: Help Needed. MBNA redress calculations Do you have two spare stamps

Hi and welcome to you Colonel !!! Well done that man for reconstructing your account, and I hope you found the spreadsheet helpful. Do let me know if there are/were any problems/complaints/suggestions etc., as "ours is a policy of continuous improvement" - and we (Turboman and I) try and keep them updated. I believe our little campaign may have achieved something, as I believe that the FOS recently suspended the processing of all MBNA claims pending an investigation into their calculation methods. Although your own PPI was mis-sold prior to 14/01/05 (when the FSA began regulating insurance selling) - I believe that the way in which your claim is dealt with should still be covered by the current FCA rules.

However, if MBNA insist that they do not have to follow these rules when calculating PPI redress offers on PPI which was mis-sold prior to 14/01/05, then there was actually a different calculation method for the 8% simple interest at that time - and this usually resulted in a larger amount, because it was not dependent on the limiting effect of the reconstructed 'Notional Balance.'

Also - the £280.20 'associated interest' seems a bit low, as this is the portion of account interest which is attributable to the accumulating monthly total of PPI and interest. This has also been one of the 'difficulties' with MBNA's calcs.

So - my own suggestion is that you demand that MBNA send you a properly detailed spreadsheet, showing clearly how their calculations were made. I believe they have been ordered to do this by the FOS in recent months, so I hope they will not try and avoid this now. If they insist that your claim is not covered by the FCA rules, then we have yet another interesting scenario to look into. If you would like us to continue discussing this claim, then do please start a separate thread for it here - where we can focus on it more closely. Please post a link to it here in this thread if you do - or let me know you have started your own thread - and I will post a link here myself.

http://forums.all-about-debt.co.uk/f...redit-Card-PPI

Carry on, that man...!

[Bill-K]

Re: Help Needed. MBNA redress calculations Do you have two spare stamps

In response to Matty's post...Is that a Matchless bike in your avatar ? 350 or 500cc ? I had a 350 for a while, back in the '70's.

Yes indeedy sir - we are now finding that the FCA is supporting the reclaiming of PPI-attributable penalty charges, so these can be included in the claim (along with apportioned account interest).

As regards your renewed fight, Matty - yes, go for it, say I. They will of course argue that you settled in 'Full and Final' - but where there is a clear case of deliberate deception, I believe that this argument fails. Even if it is not seen as a deliberate deception, I reckon it is impossible for a huge lender such as MBNA to say it was an innocent mistake - particularly when they have clearly employed a bunch of expert maths geeks to fabricate this fairy tale.

[colonelsensibl]

Re: Help Needed. MBNA redress calculations Do you have two spare stamps

The spreadsheet worked wonderfully well thank you. APR was a jumble of Retail and Cash Interest, so I used the PPI apportionment option which as you rightly guessed gave a higher associated interest (of £292.48, opposed to the £280.20 MBNA have paid). The "8% compensatory interest column" came out at £1427.54.

I've written back to MBNA showing the FOS's worked example of PPI redress on credit card closed/PPI cancelled, then substituted their PPI total/associated figures to generate compensatory 8% interest of £1416.22.

I'll give them some time to come back, then over to FOS if need be. I'll post on developments.

[ken100464]

Re: Help Needed. MBNA redress calculations Do you have two spare stamps

Cant add anymore than Bill has.

You have come across a credit card company who seems to think that they only have to calculate monthly any redress due. Either the FCA will deal with this correctly now they are aware of it or they will find they will loose public confidence quickly. That said some of the decisions and public humiliation of companies does seem to indicate a very different regulator.

OP well done for working out that not only did they miss sell you a useless product they have then tried to NOT put you back into the position you would have been if they hadnt miss sold it. If ever there was a situation where FOS should be adding additional compensation to our claims for a bank messing consumers about then this is it. My own claim has been with FOS for nearly 2 years. Thats an additional 2 years MBNA has held my money.

[MattyA]

Re: Help Needed. MBNA redress calculations Do you have two spare stamps

In response to Matty's post...Is that a Matchless bike in your avatar ? 350 or 500cc ? I had a 350 for a while, back in the '70's.

Yes indeedy sir - we are now finding that the FCA is supporting the reclaiming of PPI-attributable penalty charges, so these can be included in the claim (along with apportioned account interest).

As regards your renewed fight, Matty - yes, go for it, say I. They will of course argue that you settled in 'Full and Final' - but where there is a clear case of deliberate deception, I believe that this argument fails. Even if it is not seen as a deliberate deception, I reckon it is impossible for a huge lender such as MBNA to say it was an innocent mistake - particularly when they have clearly employed a bunch of expert maths geeks to fabricate this fairy tale.

The bike is a Norton Dominator featherbed.....not sure if 88 or 99.
My dad has one in bits in his garage , which has been there since I was 10 .....40! years ago.
It is in my sights as a project for me and my dad over the coming winter.....before he is too old to realise it.
We love our bikes , him from his youth as day to day transport and me from filed bikes then years on the motocross circuit......they are in the blood.

Re MBNA I agree about the full and final , but it was agreed on the proviso that the redress offered was in accordance with the fos guidelines.
Worth a punt.
If nothing else it will delay their attempts to recover monies from me, which I believe are not due to the shortfall in redress.

Matty

[Bill-K]

Re: Help Needed. MBNA redress calculations Do you have two spare stamps

If ever there was a situation where FOS should be adding additional compensation to our claims for a bank messing consumers about then this is it.

Hear, hear, Ken.

Matty - I do hope that you and your dad can realise that dream with the Norton this Winter. I enjoyed several years on two wheels starting (embarrassingly) with a Lambretta LI150, followed by a Villiers Panther 197cc 2-stroke bike, and finally the Matchless 350cc. I was a fair-weather biker, though, and got fed-up with arriving at work cold and wet, and squelching around all morning - so I got myself a Berkeley 3-wheeler, powered by an Excelsior 350cc 2-stroke, which was a brilliant little car with all the drive & steering at the front and a 'floating' single rear wheel.

Back to reality...Yes, I think we can trash any 'F&F' argument as you have said:

... but it was agreed on the proviso that the redress offered was in accordance with the fos guidelines.

- and that empty assurance has been repeated by MBNA & other lenders ad nauseam, so I reckon they have collectively managed to trash that little 'caveat' for themselves quite nicely. It's also good to see that time is on your side, Matty - so why not make the most of it ?

[MattyA]

Re: Help Needed. MBNA redress calculations Do you have two spare stamps

Hear, hear, Ken.

Matty - I do hope that you and your dad can realise that dream with the Norton this Winter. I enjoyed several years on two wheels starting (embarrassingly) with a Lambretta LI150, followed by a Villiers Panther 197cc 2-stroke bike, and finally the Matchless 350cc. I was a fair-weather biker, though, and got fed-up with arriving at work cold and wet, and squelching around all morning - so I got myself a Berkeley 3-wheeler, powered by an Excelsior 350cc 2-stroke, which was a brilliant little car with all the drive & steering at the front and a 'floating' single rear wheel.

Back to reality...Yes, I think we can trash any 'F&F' argument as you have said:- and that empty assurance has been repeated by MBNA & other lenders ad nauseam, so I reckon they have collectively managed to trash that little 'caveat' for themselves quite nicely. It's also good to see that time is on your side, Matty - so why not make the most of it ?

I will do my very best to get the Norton back on the road.....as he gave me the best years of my life by allowing me to be a motocrosser, it brought us together ( 2 quite chaps) and is where I made my life long friends as a teenager - Including dad.
Glad to hear you enjoyed your bikes as well , if we do get the Norton going there are 2 others waiting in the garage - A BSA bantam 175 and a Francis Barnett 250 both very original and 2 stroke. Just imagine the smoke out of the back of them!

Back to the job in hand , I am going to re-open the files with both MBNA and a number of other lenders all of whom I settled with on a similar understanding.

I will keep you posted.

Well done to you by the way for coming across to help us , we were in contact on the other side , where I dont know if you remember I provided Turboman with a copy of my own spreadsheet for calculating redress , which blew Turbomans mind.

Thanks and keep up the good work.

Matty

[Bill-K]

Re: Help Needed. MBNA redress calculations Do you have two spare stamps

Lovely story about you and your biker mates, Matty - espesh your dad. The BSA Bantam and the Triumph Tiger Cub were stable-mates, I believe. Although I may perhaps have fired a few .22 & .303 rounds on BSA guns, I never held a BSA bike in my arms. I did, however, acquire a non-running T.Cub, but I never managed to get the bugga to fire properly. The guy I eventually flogged it to reported that the two valve push-rods were crossed over in the tube running down the side of the cylinder !!! D'Oh !!! As regards Fanny Barnetts - they were often very 'low-slung,' and looked quite sporty (for the time), as I recall.
I did a nifty 'bodge' on my Berkeley (with Excelsior 2-stroke) after innumerable cold mornings of non-starting. I ran a tube from the carb float chamber to an electric fuel pump, which drained it back into the main fuel tank at the end of the day. This cleared the jets, and stopped the 2-stroke oil from gumming them up next morning - and it worked a treat !!!

Again - to business - it looks like you have some other claims that may be of interest as regards re-cracking that old "F&F" chestnut. Do please let us know, as this is an interesting aspect. As regards me "coming across" - I'll have you know sir that I'm strictly hetero (although not practising much these days - it never made me perfect). Seriously (yet again) - I can't remember that spready that you shared with Turbo, but maybe he didn't send me a copy, as he has had a lot to deal with lately, I believe. I would be interested to see it, and to learn further, if I may.

[MattyA]

Re: Help Needed. MBNA redress calculations Do you have two spare stamps

I will send you a copy ....dont slag it off too much ;-)
Ps Unbelievable letter from HSBC yesterday...will update on my thread.
PPS I also had a BSA air rifle .22 i think. The 70,s were great!

[The Tech Clerk]

Re: Help Needed. MBNA redress calculations Do you have two spare stamps

I will send you a copy ....dont slag it off too much ;-)
Ps Unbelievable letter from HSBC yesterday...will update on my thread.
PPS I also had a BSA air rifle .22 i think. The 70,s were great!

BSA . 177 in the 50s I had.

[MattyA]

Re: Help Needed. MBNA redress calculations Do you have two spare stamps

Cool !

[Bill-K]

Re: Help Needed. MBNA redress calculations Do you have two spare stamps

I forgot about .177 air rifles, TC. I never owned a gun (not even a spud-gun), but I believe the .177 pellets travelled faster, due to their smaller calibre - and therefore they hurt more if you got hit !!! I was in the Air Cadets (ATC) for a few years, and we often fired .22 & .303 firearm rifles with 'live' ammo on the ranges - which was a thrill for us youngsters. The .303's were scary, as the bullets were huge and the guns were deafening (no 'pansy' ear-protectors back then) - and on the bus back home from the .303 firing range at Pirbright, the rugby songs were terrible, because we could hardly hear each other !!!

Yes - do please send me a copy of the spready, Matty. Anything which blows Turbo's mind interests me - which is probably why I enjoyed discussing guns recently - LOL !!!
I promise not to slag it off, because the more I have learned about spreadies over the past few years - the more I have realised how little I know about them - and the real Excel experts are awesome. I'll check out your HSBC thread, too. Perhaps you could attach the spready to a PM, or an email it to me at:

Simiantics@gmail.com

[MattyA]

Re: Help Needed. MBNA redress calculations Do you have two spare stamps

Will do Bill.
Regards,
Matty