Where is Cameron

[CleverClogs (RIP)]

Re: Where is Cameron

Is Cameron still in hiding after the Channel 4 twitter gaffe? (link)

[CleverClogs (RIP)]

Re: Where is Cameron

That may remind one of a tail wagging a dog, or of a performing monkey giving orders to his organ grinder.

Without the Riot (Damages) Act 1886, shop-keepers and householders could be left with no effective means of redress if any insurance policy they may have proves to be defective or if the insurer refuses to pay out. However, under that Act, damages can be paid from police funds even if this means fewer junkets for police authority members or less wastage on such things as police helicopters.

[charitynjw]

Re: Where is Cameron

http://www.apa.police.uk/news-releas...ot-damages-act


APA comment on Riot Damages Act


Commenting on reports that under the 1886 Riot Damages Act police authorities or their insurers could have to pay claims (or in the case of authorities, higher insurance premiums) for criminal damage incurred as a result of riots, APA Chairman Rob Garnham today, 09.08.11, said:

“The potential implications of the Riot Damages act have been of considerable concern for police authorities for a number of years. It is crucial that riot damage is quickly repaired and communities restored but in a context of cuts the public will see little sense in a shrinking police fund being diverted to pay for criminal damage.”

The cross party House of Commons Home Affairs Select Committee endorsed our view as far back as 2002 when it’s 2nd report of the session stated:

“The Riot Damages Act 1886 seems arcane and a good case has been made for repealing it. Without prejudice to any existing cases, the Government should seek to repeal the Riot Damages Act 1886”

See: http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200102/cmselect/cmhaff/612/61208.htm

[CleverClogs (RIP)]

Re: Where is Cameron

I still hold respect for the police because where would we be without them, however amongst the crop there are like everything else a few bad apples and it would be unfair to paint them all with the same brush.

One does not paint bad apples; one throws them away, preferably into the appropriate recycling bin.

[CleverClogs (RIP)]

Re: Where is Cameron

Thanks for looking all that up CC. It does clarify the situation. I was in the service in the sixties hence the references to the "Riot Act" in our training. An awful lot at the time was being geared to the happenings in Northern Ireland as well.

It was still in force then, though it had not been used for many years - audio link.

However in looking in some detail at our house insurance policy and that of our business, the companies can escape their obligations under the "Act of God" clauses which also state War, Riot, Civil Unrest and Public Disorder. I understand that the insurance companies will pay out this time but I would hate to think what next years premiums are going to be for those folk and businesses in the effected areas.

It really ought not to make one iota of difference, as section 2 (2) of the Riot (Damages) Act 1886 (link) provides for insurance companies to be repaid from police funds and for insurance policies to continue as if no claim had been made.

Section 11 (link) states that it does not extend to Scotland or Ireland. Equally notable and significant may be the fact that it makes no provision whatever for compensation to be paid to owners of carriages (and, hence, of motor cars or public omnibuses) damaged or destroyed in the course of a riot or tumult.

[pompeyfaith]

Re: Where is Cameron

Handy,

I still hold respect for the police because where would we be without them, however amongst the crop there are like everything else a few bad apples and it would be unfair to paint them all with the same brush.

Regards

[Handyman]

Re: Where is Cameron

Hi all, Well done Pompey for seeing it through.

Like I said I have had a fair few dealings with the Police. No not because I am a Chav Some of my dealings were good, some were bad.

I remember back in the 70's on Nights out in Wakefield. Young coppers (probationers) from the Police Training College would be out on the streets.

Once on a Empty pavement @ 30 feet wide, one veered across towards me and my girlfriend, as he passed me he clipped me with his shoulder. My response was Sorry Officer, I didn't see you. His reply was are you trying to be clever pal. This went on every weekend. If you took the bait it was off to the cells for a kicking then onto the Magistrates on Monday Morning.

On the other hand I have gone to the aid of an Officer that was being attacked by a gang of teenagers. Pulled over on the motorway because of a faulty tail light, but then treated as an honest motorist by a policeman who had worked in "Normal Jobs" before joining the Force and was a real Gent.

I remember at one time if you wanted a late drink, you would go to the same Pubs that the CID used, you would always be sure of Afterbird, and no hassle if you had your car with you. Many of the ones I knew would drive home pished every night with impunity.

Having said all this as a teenager growing up in the 60's you had respect (or was it Fear) for the police.
Something today's youngsters are totally lacking in.

I suppose it comes down to one thing, Society has got the Police Force it deserves, after all if you go Swimming in a Sewer, expect to get Dirty. If the Police then complain about how the Law abiding citizens view them, then they only have themselves to blame.

Regards, Handy.

[garlok]

Re: Where is Cameron

Thanks for looking all that up CC. It does clarify the situation. I was in the service in the sixties hence the references to the "Riot Act" in our training. An awful lot at the time was being geared to the happenings in Northern Ireland as well.

However in looking in some detail at our house insurance policy and that of our business, the companies can escape their obligations under the "Act of God" clauses which also state War, Riot, Civil Unrest and Public Disorder. I understand that the insurance companies will pay out this time but I would hate to think what next years premiums are going to be for those folk and businesses in the effected areas.

regards
Garlok

[pompeyfaith]

Re: Where is Cameron

CC,

The end to this was I went to the appointment with the inspector to try to get some answers and all he wanted me to do was sign a statement containing a pack of lies.

I refused and said that they will be hearing from my solicitor, which they did and he advised me to go via court to seek compensation and have the caution cleared this I agreed and we went though due process right up until the court date of 15th October 2010 when they backed down and settled out of court.

They agreed via my solicitor to £5000 compensation, £360 for return of car compound fees, to wipe the caution of my otherwise clean record and last but not least £50 compensation to my dog who was treated poorly and at the very least given her condition should have been taken home or to a vets.

As for the officer concerned I never did find out what happened to him but then I could not really care less as I got the just result.

Regards

[CleverClogs (RIP)]

Re: Where is Cameron

Here is my thread sorry its CAG but was the forum I was using at that point in time, however interesting reading.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...rongful-Arrest

Disgraceful.

What happened to the onanist who arrested and injured you?

[pompeyfaith]

Re: Where is Cameron

Handy,

Small world been there done that also wrongful arrest in my case.

Here is my thread sorry its CAG but was the forum I was using at that point in time, however interesting reading.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...rongful-Arrest

[Handyman]

Re: Where is Cameron

More seriously though on the uniform front, CC. Here in North Wales under the idiot (you drive a vehicle therefore you are a guilty criminal now prove your innocence) Brunstrom, black shirts and baseball caps were introduced. It was not long before the more thuggery inclined types in the service starte to tuck their trousers into their boots and made themselves look as much like fascist paramilitaries as they could. Our house resounded to the sound of gunshots every Sunday morning for long periods as they trained on a police range close to us.

After 4 hours one day of the plodcopter hovering over our house I complained and was told the biggest pack of lies you could ever wish to hear. When I took issue with a local councillor, now got himself a seat on the Police Authority, who is an ex village policeman to boot, was the Police Federation represenataive for the area, he stated that he was the one responsible for getting paramilitary unfiforms introduced "because his missus was fed up with washing his normal uniform shirts"

Are all policemen this cretinous? How on earth do they expect to command respect amongst the yobs and oiks when they have mentality and intelligence as low as this and are alienating people like ourselves who are law abiding and abhor what has gone on this week.

regards
Garlok

I have always thought the Modern Police uniform of White shirt and Black tie inappropriate for street duties. I will agree that a Paramilitary uniform is also the same. While they do need Stab Vests and utility belt for the other equipment they carry, It does't make for a reassuring sight. Many of the Police I have met are posers. One chap I met when doing an RCO (Range Control Officer - In charge of a firing range) I thought was RAF Regiment. In reality he was CO of an Air Cadet Unit as well as being the observer on the South Yorks Police Helicopter. When he used to run night exercises for his cadets the Helicopter would be tasked to search for the cadets using the heat seeker (all in the name of training. He even arranged for a fly past on a wing sports day.

I make no secret of the fact that I am not the greatest fan of our police. Not because I have broken any laws (when I have I have taken the punishment and learned from it). But I have met several who have abused their power. A Police inspector who I took to court for non payment of a job I did. A week later I was pulled over while driving and escorted to a lay bye where a police mechanic dismantled my car. 2 weeks after an MOT it was found to have defective steering and bodywork.

Still at the moment they are all we have, I hope but I doubt that it will ever happen that society will get the Police Force it deserves when Society begins to act in the way it would like to be treated.

As a final thought, when I lived in the city, I had my car windows smashed 3 times in 1 week by some local scroats.

" young coppers came out to see me. Not because of the damage but I had been abusive to the telephone operator. Not abusive said I but Firm and Insistent. One Suggested my broken windows were caused by stones coming up off the road. No way Collumbo I said, not on the Pavement side. Then He told me "I've been a Victim of Crime, I live in Maltby (Small S Yorks Mining Town) and I've been Burgled 3 times".

Stand in that corner and face the wall I told him. Why? he said. Your a copper and you've been done 3 times, did you catch them? "No" he said. I've made my point then, your in the wrong Job said I. His colleague was laughing at this point until I turned to him and said If you tell me you have been done over as well you can join him.

I gave them descriptions, names and addresses, they never even did an interview of the youths involved.

Glad I don't live there anymore. Regards all, Handy.

[CleverClogs (RIP)]

Re: Where is Cameron

Wandsworth Council has issued first eviction notice to a rioters family.

I wonder who will get the contract for the new Wandsworth Town Hall.

[CleverClogs (RIP)]

Re: Where is Cameron

I've just read 5corpio's last entry on the media thread about a 19th century claim form having to be filled in for damages incurred during the "riots"

Is there not a legal problem here? Does not the relevant section of the Riot Act have to be read to the crowds whether they hear it or not? Are not the police very reluctant to "read" the Riot Act as they become responsible for any damage sustained after the reading?

I seem to remember something about it all in Queens Regulations when in boot camp in the sixties and the relevance to civilian riot.

Perhaps one of the legals could throw some clarification please?

I have checked and have found that the Riot Act 1814 no longer exists any more, having been repealed on 18 July 1973 by the Statute Law (Repeals) Act 1973. Even before that, the statutory felony of riot ceased to be punishable by death under the Punishment of Offences Act (7 Will 4 & 1 Vict c 91) (1837).

There is still an offence of riot contrary to section 1 (link) of the Public Order Act 1986. There is, however, no declaration for anyone to read.

From reading the Riot Damages Act 1886, I noticed that there seems not to be any requirement for the loss or damage to have been incurred in the course of an official riot, as section 2 (link) merely requires that it has been done by "any persons riotously and tumultuously assembled together". It may be less than certain whether or not that would apply to the young yobbo who, having kicked in the window of Miss Selfridge in Manchester then, on finding his way impeded by a security grille, calmly set alight to a frock on display. At the time of the offence, he was not assembled with many or even any other people, whilst he seems not to have been part of any tumult when he so obligingly posed for a camera immediately afterwards.

[pompeyfaith]

Re: Where is Cameron

Wandsworth Council has issued first eviction notice to a rioters family.