Tweet
Re: Unenforceable Overdrafts - CCA Information
Makes sense to keep the letter very safe , as they say they haven't got it xx
Makes sense to keep the letter very safe , as they say they haven't got it xx
-
if you do it today and you like it you can always do it again tomorrow
I'm an official AAD Moderator and also a volunteer, here to help make the forum run smoothly. Any views or opinions are mine and not the official line of AAD. Similarly, any advice I have offered you is done so on an informal basis, without prejudice or liability. If in doubt seek advice from a qualified insured professional - Find a Solicitor or go to the National Probono Centre.
If you spot an abusive or libellous post then please report it by Clicking Here. If you need to contact me, for instance if I've issued you a warning, moved, edited or deleted your post, please send me a message by clicking my username. -
Re: Unenforceable Overdrafts - CCA Information
I might be naïve, but surely this is a result?? They are saying they haven't got anything and claiming they don't need anything, but surely they wouldn't get very far trying to enforce a debt by going to court and saying 'this bloke owes us £X000, m'lud - he really really does. We haven't got anything on paper to prove it, but we distinctly remember it'.
In fact I have just decided you owe me £10K - I haven't got any evidence of the debt, but I have a distinct memory of it... :D:D:DComment
-
Re: Unenforceable Overdrafts - CCA Information
Which letter did you post? Have you read the updated information in post 1 of this thread?I'm an official AAD Moderator and also a volunteer, here to help make the forum run smoothly. Any views or opinions are mine and not the official line of AAD. Similarly, any advice I have offered you is done so on an informal basis, without prejudice or liability. If in doubt seek advice from a qualified insured professional - Find a Solicitor or go to the National Probono Centre.
If you spot an abusive or libellous post then please report it by Clicking Here. If you need to contact me, for instance if I've issued you a warning, moved, edited or deleted your post, please send me a message by clicking my username.Comment
-
Re: Unenforceable Overdrafts - CCA Information
Just realised that this is the same reply that Doubting Thomas received from them on 3rd February 2013 - see page 9 of this threadComment
-
Re: Unenforceable Overdrafts - CCA Information
[QUOTE=cymruambyth;558854]Which letter did you post? Have you read the updated information in post 1 of this thread?[/QUOTE]
Interesting - Niddy's post on page 1 refers to S74, not S78 - wonder which Bricktop used in his letter to them...Comment
-
Re: Unenforceable Overdrafts - CCA Information
Neither, this has been on-going well before 2012 - I was paying £1 per month to a load of the vultures, then after finding this site I simply stopped the payments and started hitting them with S78 requests (but not the O/D, just stopped the quid payment).
However they didn't notice that I wasn't paying into the O/D for quite a while, once they realised I just asked them for a copy of a signed agreement as I do not remember signing one and after some too'ing and fro'ing over the past year we are now at this point.
The letter has very similar wording to DT's letter on page 9 as pointed out by Debtguy.
[I]'It is important to point out that the bank does not require customers to sign an agreement under the Consumer Credit Act in order for an overdraft facility to be applied to their account, therefore a copy of the signed agreement is not available'
'Under Section 77 of the CCA requires us to supply a copy of the original or a true copy of their CCA regulated loan (77) agreement'
'As you do not have a loan you would need to send your request for a section 78'[/I]
I think I will reply asking them why I need to make a S78 request at their suggestion for an agreement that they have admitted in the same letter does not exist.
The £64K question is what is my liability given that...
1. There is no agreement
2. They say they don't need one for overdrafts
(if they say that it is built in to my bank account I would wager they do not have a signed agreement or true copy for that as I had the account for over 20 years)
[QUOTE=debtguy;558852]In fact I have just decided you owe me £10K - I haven't got any evidence of the debt, but I have a distinct memory of it... :D:D:D[/QUOTE]
do you happen to work for Nat West ? :pLast edited by Bricktop; 24 March 2016, 14:18.Comment
-
Re: Unenforceable Overdrafts - CCA Information
[QUOTE=Bricktop;558928][I][SIZE=3]'the bank does not require customers to sign an agreement under the Consumer Credit Act in order for an overdraft facility to be applied to their account...'[/SIZE]
[/I][/QUOTE][SIZE=3]
I'll wait to see what Niddy and the Wise Owls say, but my immediate reaction to this is - who gives a toss whether the bank requires customers to sign an agreement under the CCA?
Surely it's what the law says that matters, not the fact that NatWest might like to make things up as they go along?
What an utter, utter, utter bunch of tossers - you couldn't make them up.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]
[/SIZE][QUOTE=Bricktop;558928]
[SIZE=3]do you happen to work for Nat West ? :p[/SIZE][SIZE=3]
[/SIZE][/QUOTE][SIZE=3]
If I did, I'd have people owing me a fortune rather than (allegedly!) owing them a fortune... :)[/SIZE]Comment
-
Re: Unenforceable Overdrafts - CCA Information
[QUOTE=Bricktop;558928]
(if they say that it is built in to my bank account I would wager they do not have a signed agreement or true copy for that as I had the account for over 20 years)
[/QUOTE]
Had mine for 40! Good luck on finding THAT agreement, chaps!Comment
-
Re: Unenforceable Overdrafts - CCA Information
Meant to say before - I've had a holding reply from NatWest in response to my version of the letter on Page 1 - will keep you posted on what happens...Comment
-
Re: Unenforceable Overdrafts - CCA Information
Now I've had a letter apologising because I have complained to them, and saying they need more time to deal with the complaint!
I hope the letter on Page 1 is giving them a proper old headache!Comment
-
Re: Unenforceable Overdrafts - CCA Information
O.K. - things moving on a bit. I've now had the 'go away' letter predicted on Page 1 of this thread, and it is in much the expected vein. Here it is, or at least the important bits of it:
[COMMENCE QUOTE]
There is no obligation on the Bank to enter into a written agreement with you for the provision of an overdraft facility and there is no obligation to provide a copy of any agreement that might have been made, on demand
You have operated your account and created an overdrawn position by making transactions. The Bank is confident that it will be able to demonstrate to a Court's satisfaction that you are indebted to the Bank and Judgment will be granted.
[[I]There should be a comma after 'Bank' in that sentence - Ed[/I] :)]
We have attached a complete set of account transactions which will likely form part of the Bank's evidence before Court.
You may obtain a copy of the Bank's published T&Cs by visiting our website.
If you are unwilling to voluntarily enter [[I]split infinitive - their English is as shit as their banking - Ed[/I]] into a repayment arrangement, the Bank's solicitors may be instructed to commence legal action against you in order to obtain a County Court Judgment. This will make it difficult to obtain credit from other lenders.
We strongly recommend that you obtain independent legal advice and look forward to receiving your repayment proposals within 21 days.
Kind regards [[I]ho bloody ho - Ed[/I]]
Debt management operations.
[END QUOTE]
Any thoughts? Looks to me as if it is exactly what we are expecting, and that it is time to send the next letter, which seems to cover the situation (unarranged o/d as per CC Regs 2010). I assume the best thing to do is wait 19 of the 21 days before replying to them, and then to send them Letter 2...Last edited by debtguy; 1 April 2016, 21:47.Comment
-
Re: Unenforceable Overdrafts - CCA Information
if it were me I'd take the 19 days...no need to rush anything. There's plenty of 'mays' in their letter and no 'wills' ...so just hot air at the moment.
As an aside, is there any difference between a formal overdraft facility and an unauthorised overdraft...like if the bank gave you £100 facility but you ended up £200 overdrawn ?Comment
-
Re: Unenforceable Overdrafts - CCA Information
[QUOTE=cardiac arrest;559802]if it were me I'd take the 19 days...no need to rush anything. There's plenty of 'mays' in their letter and no 'wills' ...so just hot air at the moment.
As an aside, is there any difference between a formal overdraft facility and an unauthorised overdraft...like if the bank gave you £100 facility but you ended up £200 overdrawn ?[/QUOTE]
If you look at post 2 in this thread it helps to explain the different rulesI'm an official AAD Moderator and also a volunteer, here to help make the forum run smoothly. Any views or opinions are mine and not the official line of AAD. Similarly, any advice I have offered you is done so on an informal basis, without prejudice or liability. If in doubt seek advice from a qualified insured professional - Find a Solicitor or go to the National Probono Centre.
If you spot an abusive or libellous post then please report it by Clicking Here. If you need to contact me, for instance if I've issued you a warning, moved, edited or deleted your post, please send me a message by clicking my username.Comment
-
Re: Unenforceable Overdrafts - CCA Information
[QUOTE=cymruambyth;559806]If you look at post 2 in this thread it helps to explain the different rules[/QUOTE]
Yes, from my reading of the 2010 law, the fact that there is an unarranged overdraft changes everything (for the better!):
[url]http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2010/1969/regulation/9/made[/url]Comment
-
Re: Unenforceable Overdrafts - CCA Information
Funny thing is, apart from their fees the overdraft isn't unarranged - when I stopped paying into the account it was £14995 overdrawn on a £15000 o/d.
But the next day they applied £200 of charges, which put it over the limit. So they way I see it, they have shot themselves in the foot by doing so, because throwing the overdraft into 'unarranged' appears to give me rights that I wouldn't otherwise have had...
Have I understood that correctly? If so, it's a funny old world - innit?Comment
Comment