Unenforceable Overdrafts - CCA Information

[pooksthebear]

Re: Pookies UE Diary

Niddy you are brilliant!!!!! Thank you :applause

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Pookies UE Diary

[QUOTE=pooksthebear;157639]Niddy you are brilliant!!!!! Thank you :applause[/QUOTE] I know, I know :lol :lol

Just kidding, but see what I mean how mine is more direct and to the point? Trust me, see what that does ;W

[pooksthebear]

Re: Pookies UE Diary

[QUOTE=Never-In-Doubt;157650]I know, I know :lol :lol

Just kidding, but see what I mean how mine is more direct and to the point? Trust me, see what that does ;W[/QUOTE]

Its brilliant Niddy, you must have one heck of a brain!! I thought I was good at letter writing till I came across yours!!

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Pookies UE Diary

[QUOTE=pooksthebear;157656]Right.. while I am on a roll should I do anything about this:

6th Dec got letter from Mackenzie Hall sending back my postal order saying they had requested CCA from Capquest and if no contact within 40 days they would close my file. 7th Dec demand for payment from Mackenzie Hall. 12th Dec demand for payment and doorstep threat from Meritforce (on behalf of Capquest). 12th Jan full and final offer made from Mackenzie Hall. 30th Jan demand for payment from Connect on behalf of Capquest. Still no CCA. I have ignored all (except doorstep threat, sent a template threat letter in response) Am I ok to keep ignoring?[/QUOTE] Yes ignore for now, if necessary I'll sort you a suitable reply....

[QUOTE=pooksthebear;157656]Also.. seeing as Cabot sent my postal order back with my request for CCA (stating they didn't have to provide as overdraft)..well as I'm now sending them the above letter, do I need to send a £1 postal order with the letter?[/QUOTE] yes send the same £1 PO from last time - dont get a new one.

[pooksthebear]

Re: Pookies UE Diary

[QUOTE=Never-In-Doubt;157660]Yes ignore for now, if necessary I'll sort you a suitable reply....

Ok will do. Just noticed...Connect is part of Mackenzie Hall.. so much for closing file after 40 days!

yes send the same £1 PO from last time - dont get a new one.[/QUOTE]

Yep still got that and they are good for 3 months so still in date.

Thank you ;)

[DNW]

Re: DNW's UE Diary

[QUOTE=Drowning Not Waving;103753][SIZE=6][COLOR=DarkOrchid][COLOR=Magenta]Natwest Overdraft[/COLOR][/COLOR][/SIZE]

[code]
[B][FONT=Courier New]Name[/FONT][/B][FONT=Courier New] - Natwest[/FONT]
[FONT=courier new][B]Type of account[/B] - Overdraft[/FONT]
[FONT=courier new][B]Date commenced[/B] - Oct 2000[/FONT]
[FONT=courier new][B]Approx balance[/B] - £2,181[/FONT]
[FONT=courier new][B]Date last paid[/B] - Mar-11 [/FONT]
[FONT=courier new][B]Arrangement/not paying[/B] - Not paying[/FONT]
[FONT=courier new][B]Status[/B] - In Arrears [/FONT]
[FONT=courier new][B]Account owner[/B] - Lender
[/FONT]
[/code][B]Key:[/B]
[COLOR=Red]Them[/COLOR]
[COLOR=Blue]Me[/COLOR]
[COLOR=Lime]Other[/COLOR]

[B][U]Activity[/U][/B]
[LIST=1][*][COLOR=red]31/05/11 Letter refusing to accept I&E form[/COLOR][*][COLOR=red]04/07/11 Letter reminding over OD limit and chages now £6 per day[/COLOR][*][COLOR=red]12/07/11 Letter asking for contact to discuss[/COLOR][*][COLOR=Blue]12/07/11 Phone call - Natwest won't default until balance reaches -£2250. I&E completed verbally[/COLOR][*][COLOR=red]04/07/11 Overlimit OD - £6 per day charges[/COLOR][*][COLOR=red]02/08/11 Letter asking for I&E[/COLOR][*][COLOR=red]04/08/11 Unarranged OD fee warning[/COLOR][*][COLOR=red]05/08/11 Breakdown of OD fees[/COLOR][*][COLOR=red][COLOR=Blue]30/08/11 Ceased token payment (to hurry along the default)[/COLOR]
[/COLOR][*][COLOR=red]12/09/11 Letter from Natwest - please contact us (ignored)[/COLOR][*][COLOR=red]29/09/11 [/COLOR][COLOR=red]Letter from Natwest - please contact us (ignored)[/COLOR][*][COLOR=red]11/10/11 Letter from Power 2 Contact - please contact us (ignored)[/COLOR][*][COLOR=red]19/10/11 Doorstep visit from Power 2 Contact (answered and contact card left for OH)[/COLOR][*][COLOR=red]19/10/11 [COLOR=Blue]Letter sent to Natwest - No visits and please consider stopping/refunding charges[/COLOR][/COLOR][*][COLOR=red]04/11/11 Letter from Natwest - they're sorry I had to complain, they're looking into it[/COLOR][*][COLOR=red]14/11/11 Letter from Natwest - they're still investigating complaint
[/COLOR][*][COLOR=red]16/12/11 Letter from Natwest - Notice of intention to file a default, and DN received[/COLOR][*][COLOR=red]19/12/11 Letter from Natwest - Notice of default sums[/COLOR] (they charged £30 to issue a DN!)[*][COLOR=red]05/01/12 Letter from Natwest - It's not to late to contact us to sort this out[/COLOR][*][COLOR=red]18/01/12 Letter from Natwest - Terminating overdraft agreement and demand the account is paid in full. However they also offer the option to agree a mutually acceptable repayment plan.[/COLOR][*][COLOR=red][COLOR=Blue]31/01/12 Sent to Natwest - letter requesting refund of charges and resumed token payments[/COLOR]
[/COLOR][*][COLOR=red]10/02/12 Letter from Westcot - They are now dealing with this account and would like to know when we're going to pay it. [/color][/LIST][/QUOTE]


[B]UPDATE[/B]

[COLOR="Red"]
15/02/12 - Letter from Natwest - "Thanks for your letter of 31/01/12, Westcot are now dealing with your account and we have passed your letter to them and they will contact you shortly.... When charges and interest were applied to the account they were rightfully due within the T&C."[/COLOR]


I'm planning on sending a SAR to Natwest to check exactly what charges have been applied, but I was wondering if I should also send something similar to this post (also in relation to an OD) - linky --> [url="http://forums.all-about-debt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=157636&postcount=183"]allaboutFORUMS - View Single Post - Pookies UE Diary[/url]
I'd take out the part about harassment as that hasn't been an issue, I haven't sent a CCA request so would I need to take out some of the first paragraph also.

Thoughts?


[QUOTE][QUOTE=Never-In-Doubt;157636]Dear Sirs,

[B] Ref: xxxxxxx[/B]

I acknowledge receipt of your letter and I would like to point out that regardless of the provisions of sections 78 you seem to have forgotten about The Consumer Credit (EU Directive) Regulations (2010) and also c.39 (s.74 (A&B) (VA)) CCA(1974).

As I had what can only be classed as an agreed overdraft, then the lending becomes regulated in line with Part VA (s.74) (s.1(b)) meaning the normal rules and CCA(1974) protection applies. The lender also needs to send an annual reminder to me regards the overdraft, as well as copies of the original agreement made and an annual renewal form that contains the relevant prescribed terms that are clearly outlined in s.74(A)2(a,b,c,d,e). As nothing of the sort has ever been recorded as received by myself, this account is in fact unenforceable.

Please pay attention to the following amendments to the CCA1974;[INDENT][B]s.74A(2) The current account agreement must include the following information at the time it is made:[/B]

[B](a)[/B] the rate of interest charged on the amount by which an account-holder overdraws on the current account or exceeds the pre-arranged overdraft limit,
[B](b)[/B] any conditions applicable to that rate,
[B](c)[/B] any reference rate on which that rate is based,
[B](d)[/B] information on any changes to the rate of interest (including the periods that the rate applies and any conditions or procedure applicable to changing that rate), and
[B](e)[/B] any other charges payable by the debtor under the agreement (and the conditions under which those charges may be varied).
[/INDENT]Please also pay attention to s.74(B)(2) which reads;[INDENT][B] s.74B(2) The matters referred to in subsection (1) are:[/B]
[/INDENT][INDENT] [B](a)[/B] the fact that the current account is overdrawn or the overdraft limit has been exceeded,
[B](b)[/B] the amount of that overdraft or excess,
[B](c)[/B] the rate of interest charged on it, and
[B](d)[/B] any other charges payable by the debtor in relation to it (including any penalties and any interest on those charges).
[/INDENT]I trust that I have set out my position, and the position of current legislation that is the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

On to another matter, regards your continual harassment by telephone - you've now forced me to get rid of my old number, it's pointless keeping it when you think it's a personal hotline to annoy and harass me; therefore I do have access to a number which you should only use if you cannot get hold of me by mail, as I do request that all correspondence be done via letter to allow me an audit trail in case of future misconduct.

This contact number is 08719152718. You should take this as formal notice that my previous number is no longer in use by me and any attempts to call it will be classed as undue harassment to which relevant complaints will be sent to your governing regulators. I do request you only communicate in writing however should you feel the need to try and speak to me please leave a message and I shall endevour to return your call if I deem it appropriate, otherwise I will respond in writing.

If you continue to harass me by telephone, you will be in breach of the Communications Act (2003) s.127 and I will have no alternative but to report you to OFCOM, Trading Standards and The Office of Fair Trading, meaning that you may be liable to a substantial fine and/or other sanctions as they see fit. Be advised that any further telephone calls from your company may be recorded and used in evidence.

As I now formally demand all further correspondence from your company to be made in writing only, I would like to also make you aware that any additional harassment will put you in breach of Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970, and the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

I trust I have made myself and my position clear and look forward to receiving the requested documents within the next 14 days, or your confirmation that you do not hold any such documents.

Yours faithfully,

[SIZE=5][B]
Sign Digitally[/B][/SIZE][/QUOTE]

[/QUOTE]

[CleverClogs (RIP)]

Re: DNW's UE Diary

[QUOTE=Drowning Not Waving;157732][COLOR="Red"]
15/02/12 - Letter from Natwest - "Thanks for your letter of 31/01/12, Westcot are now dealing with your account and we have passed your letter to them and they will contact you shortly.... When charges and interest were applied to the account they were rightfully due within the T&C."[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

Nonsense.

[QUOTE]I'm planning on sending a SAR to Natwest to check exactly what charges have been applied, but I was wondering if I should also send something similar to this post (also in relation to an OD) - linky --> [url="http://forums.all-about-debt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=157636&postcount=183"]allaboutFORUMS - View Single Post - Pookies UE Diary[/url]
I'd take out the part about harassment as that hasn't been an issue, I haven't sent a CCA request so would I need to take out some of the first paragraph also.

Thoughts?[/QUOTE]
I'd say that all the first paragraph should be omitted, but I'd also wish to know why the NatWest onanists seem to think that compliance with the Consumer Credit Act 1974 is optional. This applies especially to sections 86C (5) - [URL="http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1974/39/section/86C"][B]link[/B][/URL] and 86E (6) - [URL="http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1974/39/section/86E"][B]link[/B][/URL]) which expressly state that no fee shall be payable by the debtor for preparation or provision of arrears or default notices, and to section 173 - [URL="http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1974/39/section/173"][B]link[/B][/URL] - which means that the CCA trumps contractual terms.

[DNW]

Re: DNW's UE Diary

Thank you CC those are really useful links :happy (and I actually understood all of your post for once!!! :blush2 :lol


A couple more questions before I respond to Natwest - should I send a CCA request and when they tell me to go away and not be so silly there is no such thing as a CCA for an OD, then hit them with a letter such as above?

When I do send the above, should I include quotes of sections 86C(5), 86E(6) and section 173 - or just mention that I'm aware that they have breached those sections?

[oscar]

Re: DNW's UE Diary

[QUOTE=Drowning Not Waving;158231] should I send a CCA request and when they tell me to go away and not be so silly there is no such thing as a CCA for an OD, [/QUOTE]

As overdrafts are CCA exempt, they would actually be correct.

[DNW]

Re: DNW's UE Diary

[QUOTE=Drowning Not Waving;157732][B]UPDATE[/B]

[COLOR="Red"]
15/02/12 - Letter from Natwest - "Thanks for your letter of 31/01/12, Westcot are now dealing with your account and we have passed your letter to them and they will contact you shortly.... When charges and interest were applied to the account they were rightfully due within the T&C."[/COLOR]


I'm planning on sending a SAR to Natwest to check exactly what charges have been applied, but I was wondering if I should also send something similar to this post (also in relation to an OD) - linky --> [url="http://forums.all-about-debt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=157636&postcount=183"]allaboutFORUMS - View Single Post - Pookies UE Diary[/url]
I'd take out the part about harassment as that hasn't been an issue, I haven't sent a CCA request so would I need to take out some of the first paragraph also.

Thoughts?[/QUOTE]



I think I've taken out the irrelevant parts, but would be glad if someone could cast an eye over this before I send it off to Natwest (should I even be sending it yet or waiting until they start taking more action than just passing it over to Westcots? :confused:


[QUOTE]
I write further to your letter of 10/02/12.

As I had what can only be classed as an agreed overdraft, then the lending becomes regulated in line with Part VA (s.74) (s.1(b)) meaning the normal rules and CCA(1974) protection applies. The lender also needs to send an annual reminder to me regards the overdraft, as well as copies of the original agreement made and an annual renewal form that contains the relevant prescribed terms that are clearly outlined in s.74(A)2(a,b,c,d,e). As nothing of the sort has ever been recorded as received by myself, this account is in fact unenforceable.

Please pay attention to the following amendments to the CCA1974;

s.74A(2) The current account agreement must include the following information at the time it is made:

(a) the rate of interest charged on the amount by which an account-holder overdraws on the current account or exceeds the pre-arranged overdraft limit,
(b) any conditions applicable to that rate,
(c) any reference rate on which that rate is based,
(d) information on any changes to the rate of interest (including the periods that the rate applies and any conditions or procedure applicable to changing that rate), and
(e) any other charges payable by the debtor under the agreement (and the conditions under which those charges may be varied).


Please also pay attention to s.74(B)(2) which reads;

s.74B(2) The matters referred to in subsection (1) are:
(a) the fact that the current account is overdrawn or the overdraft limit has been exceeded,
(b) the amount of that overdraft or excess,
(c) the rate of interest charged on it, and
(d) any other charges payable by the debtor in relation to it (including any penalties and any interest on those charges).

I trust that I have set out my position, and the position of current legislation that is the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and look forward to receiving the requested documents within the next 14 days, or your confirmation that you do not hold any such documents.
[/QUOTE]

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: DNW's UE Diary

[QUOTE=Drowning Not Waving;159222][B]UPDATE[/B]


[COLOR=Red]27/01/12 Letter received - Marbles - [/COLOR]

I'm not sure if this means that all Marbles accounts have been transferred to Progressive or whether this is a Notice of Assignment?[/QUOTE] Yes I have posted about this previously - hang on I'll get the links to the post!

---> [URL="http://forums.all-about-debt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=158798&postcount=49"]allaboutFORUMS - View Single Post - mehim's UE Diary[/URL]

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: DNW's UE Diary

[QUOTE=Drowning Not Waving;159320]I think I've taken out the irrelevant parts, but would be glad if someone could cast an eye over this before I send it off to Natwest (should I even be sending it yet or waiting until they start taking more action than just passing it over to Westcots? :confused:[/QUOTE] No do not send that, you are taking the fight to them by doing so - just sit tight and await action from them. :beer

[CleverClogs (RIP)]

Re: DNW's UE Diary

[QUOTE=Drowning Not Waving;158231]A couple more questions before I respond to Natwest - should I send a CCA request and when they tell me to go away and not be so silly there is no such thing as a CCA for an OD,[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=oscar;158239]As overdrafts are CCA exempt, they would actually be correct.[/QUOTE]
[SIZE="7"]Wrong.[/SIZE]

[PlanB]

Re: DNW's UE Diary

[QUOTE=CleverClogs;159363][SIZE=7]Wrong.[/SIZE][/QUOTE]

Spoken like an expert :rotfpmsl

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: DNW's UE Diary

[QUOTE=CleverClogs;159363][SIZE=7][SIZE=2]Wrong[/SIZE].[/SIZE][/QUOTE] Ok, we have established this mate :lol

Maybe a new thread would be the best thing, see if you're bored later fancy gathering the links and PMing me them and I will start a whole thread on it, or I will do it later when I finish site updates :beer

Thanks CC :clap