Child Support Agency 2003 scheme Child Maintenance new scheme for cases after 25th Nov 2013

[Sapphire]

Re: Child Support Agency 2003 scheme Child Maintenance new scheme for cases after 25th Nov 2013

There you go Enforcer, I suspect you can build a very good argument based on that they havn't followed procedure.

[Enforcer]

Re: Child Support Agency 2003 scheme Child Maintenance new scheme for cases after 25th Nov 2013

Inca, just clicked on the link you sent yesterday, cannot believe it, they have not followed this procedure, and yet they have awesome powers to help themselves to money. How do we as a democracy, allow this to happen?

[Enforcer]

Re: Child Support Agency 2003 scheme Child Maintenance new scheme for cases after 25th Nov 2013

Will eventually get there, that's why I asked earlier on how to do a subject access request against them. They record all conversations, "apparently"!

[PlanB]

Re: Child Support Agency 2003 scheme Child Maintenance new scheme for cases after 25th Nov 2013

Ok son phoned them again this morning, explained that this was the third time he had phoned this week, no one has replied. Lady on phone said that they had sent an email to caseworker on Monday, she "should" get a call back Thurs/Fri. Asked what he had to pay, new assessment, having problems with the new system, she suggested that he put away what he thought it might be then he would have the money to pay when they have sorted it out. They promised last month that he would have the figures under the new system by 17th July at the latest. Told me not to pay them anything else until they get back with a payment figure! How are you supposed to deal with this level of incompetence!

Pity you're not getting all this in writing. You may need a paper trail otherwise it's your word against theirs.

[Enforcer]

Re: Child Support Agency 2003 scheme Child Maintenance new scheme for cases after 25th Nov 2013

Ok son phoned them again this morning, explained that this was the third time he had phoned this week, no one has replied. Lady on phone said that they had sent an email to caseworker on Monday, she "should" get a call back Thurs/Fri. Asked what he had to pay, new assessment, having problems with the new system, she suggested that he put away what he thought it might be then he would have the money to pay when they have sorted it out. They promised last month that he would have the figures under the new system by 17th July at the latest. Told me not to pay them anything else until they get back with a payment figure! How are you supposed to deal with this level of incompetence!

[Sapphire]

Re: Child Support Agency 2003 scheme Child Maintenance new scheme for cases after 25th Nov 2013

Just a thought, if you want to keep track of the payments wouldn't it be better for you to open up an account solely for that purpose and pay the maintenance from there rather than the business account ? I know that if I did that my accountant would be slapping me silly even more than he does now.

[Enforcer]

Re: Child Support Agency 2003 scheme Child Maintenance new scheme for cases after 25th Nov 2013

Have not made this month's payment yet, they have not given a figure or where to send payment.

[Enforcer]

Re: Child Support Agency 2003 scheme Child Maintenance new scheme for cases after 25th Nov 2013

Yes your assessment of the situation is correct. Mum 2 will continue to get £200 a month regardless. They are still on talking terms and he has child whenever needed as well as holidays weekends etc.I would prefer to continue to pay via the business, as I can track all payments. He is now in arrears with cms as csa have transferred arrears. Is once again calling them this morning to try and get an answer from them.

[Inca]

Re: Child Support Agency 2003 scheme Child Maintenance new scheme for cases after 25th Nov 2013

So....to clarify.....

Mum 1...........No maintenance order ........No maintenance paid.

Mum 2..........No maintenance order..........£200 pcm on family arrangement paid through the business. Your son wants this figure acknowledged by CMS and offset against any order for Mum 3.
We do not know yet if this figure is higher or lower than the CMS would deem correct,Mum 2 doesn't want CMS to be involved at all..

Mum 3.........Has applied for £800 pcm through now defunct CSA..CMS is the new name..
2003 rules now superceded by 2013 rules.....new regs bought in on 30.6.2014 which clearly state any children whose parent receives money under a family arrangement will be included in any new assessment.

Therefore,the assessment for Mum 3 will be based on sons earnings ..minus £200 he pays for Child 2.

Son has been paying £196 pcm to Mum 3 ,,this figure is your personal assessment based on what Mum 2 gets.

Son.............Son is employed (and is a partner in family business. In the last tax year he declared a £29k wage (before baby 3)
This year he is declaring a £13k wage (after baby 3)

My thoughts......
It is a moot point how/when /where /why Baby 3 came into this world,,the fact remains he/she is here and the law of the land dictates that your son will help pay for his/her upbringing.as he is for Child 2.
Your son is absolutely correct in that ,under the new rules the payments he makes to Mum 2 should be taken into account when assessing the payments to Mum 3. That is the crux of this as I see it.

As your son is adamant he is Baby 3's father he MUST get his name on the Birth Certificate ensuring his parental rights for a variety of reasons......one being he is paying towards the childs upkeep,,if Mum 3 outright refuses..alarm bells should ring.

The tax issues/wages..This is where I think the problem is.......the huge decrease in sons entitlement...any layperson seeing this is going to query why? Especially as it coincides with Mum 3's pregnancy.
Also,,don't you think it would be better if any maintenance payments to Mum 2 & 3 come directly out of your sons bank account and not via the business? It could get very messy otherwise.

Is your son in arrears to Mum 3 as of todays date,,?
Are these arrears via the CMS?
Are the payments of £196 to Mum 3 up to date? How is it being paid (as there's no contact)
Will your son continue to pay £200 pcm to Mum 2 even if CMS say it's too much?

Sorry for all the questions,,and yes,,us parents often end up sorting our offsprings messes out

[PlanB]

Re: Child Support Agency 2003 scheme Child Maintenance new scheme for cases after 25th Nov 2013

Lets get the tribunal out of the way first.

As I understand it the Tribunal's Decision is legally binding.

The Tribunal Case Worker simply collates the paperwork for the Tribunal hearing. They are not the decision maker. Only the Tribunal Judge can make a decision.

[Enforcer]

Re: Child Support Agency 2003 scheme Child Maintenance new scheme for cases after 25th Nov 2013

Lets get the tribunal out of the way first. Yet again, they promised to get caseworker to call son back, nothing happened, he seems to think that they have a big note on the screen don't speak to this one! Pass it to someone else. Will call them again in the morning.

[PlanB]

Re: Child Support Agency 2003 scheme Child Maintenance new scheme for cases after 25th Nov 2013

Child 1 knows his dad,still comes to our house with one of my other grandsons. Child 2 every other weekend Friday to Sunday evening, now it's school hols yesterday today in fact at least half of the 6weeks holidays. Changed entitlement 6months before child 3 was born.

Good news about contact with Child 1 and that's the Mother who is not seeking child support.

Good news that Child 2 spends so much time with your son. This of course would have an impact on the child support he should pay because he has "shared care". Maybe this Mother is getting too much maintenance?

Sorry to hear Child 3 has no contact though. There seems to be some animosity there which may not be overcome easily. You seem to feel she tricked him into this baby by saying she was infertile when she wasn't. Even if that were the case a baby has been born and a baby needs to eat. That's all the Tribunal will be looking at. Your son's income "entitlement" dropped dramatically after the Mother became pregnant. They'll look at that too.

I think your son should take Inca's advice over a DNA test to resolve the issue of Child 3 once and for all.

[Enforcer]

Re: Child Support Agency 2003 scheme Child Maintenance new scheme for cases after 25th Nov 2013

Child 1 knows his dad,still comes to our house with one of my other grandsons. Child 2 every other weekend Friday to Sunday evening, now it's school hols yesterday today in fact at least half of the 6weeks holidays. Changed entitlement 6months before child 3 was born.

[PlanB]

Re: Child Support Agency 2003 scheme Child Maintenance new scheme for cases after 25th Nov 2013

Regarding son's earnings. . . I have allowed him to take more than his share in the past, from now on he will get his "entitlement" as per the law.

This might be the issue which the CSA is focussing on. It may depend on when the "entitlement" was reduced. If the date coincides with a CSA assessment then they'll want an explanation for the sudden change of circumstances or they may see it as a deliberate attempt to downsize his income to avoid child maintenance payments.

My ex-husband went bankrupt to avoid paying for our daughter. He sold his house to his new wife and appointed her as a Director of his company. It was business as usual for them after that while I didn't get a penny. However the upshot is his daughter will have nothing to do with him nowadays, so that made him the loser in the long run not me.

These three children are presumably too young at this point to know what's going on, but sometime in the future they will want to know who their father is and they'll start asking questions. At the moment all they've got to go on will be the stories they'll be hearing from their mothers which may not paint a pretty picture of him. I think your son needs to look at the bigger picture, not just the money.

Has your son considered mediation to broker a deal with Mum 3 or is he relying on you to sort it for him?

[Enforcer]

Re: Child Support Agency 2003 scheme Child Maintenance new scheme for cases after 25th Nov 2013

Regarding son's earnings. Our partnership is governed by the 1890 Partnerships Act.Section 24, see how inland revenue interpret this.All partners are "entitled" to an equal share of the profits. Although I have allowed him to take more than his share in the past, from now on he will get his "entitlement" as per the law.