Child Support Agency 2003 scheme Child Maintenance new scheme for cases after 25th Nov 2013

[Sapphire]

Re: Child Support Agency 2003 scheme Child Maintenance new scheme for cases after 25th Nov 2013

Hi Enforcer, I think that mum number 3 is one very clever cookie and no matter what you try she has basically got you tied up, no matter how you try to dress it up ie: copies of bank statements and so on, the CSA or whatever they are called nowadays will take the figures from the HMRC, your accountant might be clever adjusting the figures to suit where tax is concerned but this time its not tax is the CSA and a totally different set of rules.

[Enforcer]

Re: Child Support Agency 2003 scheme Child Maintenance new scheme for cases after 25th Nov 2013

Mum no 3 seemed to me to exceptionally clever in the way she handled her side, she has an A4 notepad detailing every single phone call, times dates and who she spoke to. Team leaders line managers etc. Certain pages marked with coloured stickers, everything filed and in order. She didn't need an advocate, would have run rings around her and CSA solicitor. Seems very focused on money.
Cheque was made out to the caravan park.
All partners are entitled to an equal share of profits, however our accountant has always done tax returns to maximise tax allowances for the partners, I explained to the Judge that in the relevant tax year although sons declared earnings were £29,000 he did not actually earn that amount. CSA lady says they have to work on HMRC figures. We were not told how much to pay her, I will now work on CSA figure of £35.00 a week.
I really hope that they ask for Bank Statements and accounts, this will prove my point.

[Inca]

Re: Child Support Agency 2003 scheme Child Maintenance new scheme for cases after 25th Nov 2013

Mum 3 obviously has tangible MH issues in whatever shape or form they manifest.
I can disabuse you of the notion that people diagnosed with depression cannot hold down jobs,they can, and in some cases go on to have high flying careers.
She is obviously receiving treatment for it hence having an MH advocate there yesterday.
As for DLA/PIP..I'm sure many on here will agree,it's notoriously hard to claim (especially now it's transitioning to PIP) so her case (and evidence) must have been strong to have been awarded it. It's a not a 'means tested benefit' so won't be included in any calculations.

do the triumvirate of partners get the same wage from the business. and do you all have exactly the same amount of shares.an exact 3 way split?

The cheque for the caravan...who was it made out to?
It's possible that the Judge saw transaction as a 'dispersal of assets'.

Were you told how much to pay to Mum 3 until new Tribunal date?

I personally think this is all about investigating and proving your sons assets (or lack thereof) and the 13k wage for a 35 yrold man part owning his own company just doesn't sound right,so they will investigate it (I'm not saying it's not true,but they obviously believe he has more than he's letting on)

Time and Technology have made long drawn out maintenance and custody hearings a thing of the past....If the investigating officers want a look at bank statements etc etc and it's for valid reasons it's easily done by warrants etc

I'm sorry it wasn't resolved yesterday

[Enforcer]

Re: Child Support Agency 2003 scheme Child Maintenance new scheme for cases after 25th Nov 2013

Mum no 3 has argued that this was my son's business, CSA submission, son was a self employed partner from 10th March 2003. She is still working for a charity advising on benefits for drug addicts and people released from prison, so not that depressed. She asked the Judge why she was not getting the arrears she deserved, CSA lady advised that no enforcement action could be taken whilst she was disputing the variation decision. I advised that we had paid, CSA lady said she needs to contact Birkenhead. I spoke to the judge regarding a new submission, she was disputing that my wife paid the ground rent and would not accept a photocopy of cheque stub, I offered her a copy of wife' bank statement to prove case, she refused it! What more can I do?

[PlanB]

Re: Child Support Agency 2003 scheme Child Maintenance new scheme for cases after 25th Nov 2013

Okay, so you got a postponement of the final hearing (no Decision today) and the Judge will issue new Directions (homework for both parties). Was there any interim decision on who should pay what to whom and how much while the saga continues?

Did the Judge narrow down the issues so you at least know what is/isn't in dispute from now on?

I hope there were things said at today's hearing which could make Mum 3 and her legal team reconsider their position and maybe make an effort to strike a deal with your son.

I know you think Mum 3 is a greedy cow, but if this is her first baby (is he?) and she is genuinely suffering from depression (hence on benefits with a Mental Health Advocate for the hearing) maybe your son should cut her some slack because what comes across as greed could in reality be anger and resentment at being left to bring up your son's baby all by herself. I am not being judgemental but I do know what it's like to be a woman with a baby and no support from the father. I was a right cow all through my divorce and child maintenance proceedings

[Enforcer]

Re: Child Support Agency 2003 scheme Child Maintenance new scheme for cases after 25th Nov 2013

Went to tribunal today. Other party had advocate from mental health team, claiming DLA for depression, also solicitor for CSA. Judge is issuing directions notice for next hearing as mother of child no 3 has appealed against refusal by CSA of variation order. CSA will now have to investigate again. Cannot for the life of me find out where son is hiding his gold plated Rolls Royce or which bank account the odd few million are hidden in. He has no undeclared assets.

[Sapphire]

Re: Child Support Agency 2003 scheme Child Maintenance new scheme for cases after 25th Nov 2013

Great advice, and to add to the above, make sure your son turns out very, very smart, ie: Suit and tie if possible, it shows respect for the court and the Judge, there is nothing more antagonising to a Judge/Magistrate when you get someone up in front of you looking like they don't give a monkeys about themselves or where they are and I guarantee it helps with the decision.

[Pixie]

Re: Child Support Agency 2003 scheme Child Maintenance new scheme for cases after 25th Nov 2013

Good luck tomorrow...good "words of wisdom" from PlanB

[PlanB]

Re: Child Support Agency 2003 scheme Child Maintenance new scheme for cases after 25th Nov 2013

Just wishing you and your son the best of luck with your Tribunal hearing tomorrow.

The Judge and the panel will have read all the paperwork before the hearing starts and probably made up their mind on the outcome, so they'll be looking to clarify a few things with questions to both sides.

I've never been to a child maintenance tribunal but I have been to other types and the only advice I can give is tell your son to show massive respect for the Judge(s) because they hold all the cards. Don't correct them if something isn't right simply say "I may not have explained that very well, what I actually meant was . . . ". Never tell a Judge they've got something wrong.

Listen carefully to everything the Judge says because sometimes they're dropping hints or sending out a signal as to which way they're thinking. Be prepared to change your mind if you think the Judge has made a valid point. Remember they are capable of being objective whereas you're not. Flatter the Judge with "I never thought to see it that way . . . ".

Things will be said by the other party which will wind you up rotten but you must remain calm. Say something like "I can see why she would think that but in reality the caravan is owned by my mum and I'm paying for another child which puts a strain on my budget but I am doing my best and I'm saddened that she can't see it that way . . . ". That sort of thing.

Finally, you can always appeal a Tribunal's decision

[Enforcer]

Re: Child Support Agency 2003 scheme Child Maintenance new scheme for cases after 25th Nov 2013

Son is 35 years old. His eldest child is 16 this year.

[Inca]

Re: Child Support Agency 2003 scheme Child Maintenance new scheme for cases after 25th Nov 2013

How old is you son??

[Enforcer]

Re: Child Support Agency 2003 scheme Child Maintenance new scheme for cases after 25th Nov 2013

Son has been in the business partnership since 2003.This assessment was from CSA and is only for child no 3. CMS need to do a new assessment to include child no 2. Still waiting for them to do this.

[Inca]

Re: Child Support Agency 2003 scheme Child Maintenance new scheme for cases after 25th Nov 2013

Is your son happy with the £35 (42pw) he has been assessed at?

What I meant was how long has your son been in the Partnership?

[Enforcer]

Re: Child Support Agency 2003 scheme Child Maintenance new scheme for cases after 25th Nov 2013

Yes it is jointly owned. However we did ask how much the site would give us for the caravan last year if we decided to give it up. They offered £1000. It has not been rented out for the last 3 years. And my son did take her there on several occasions.

[PlanB]

Re: Child Support Agency 2003 scheme Child Maintenance new scheme for cases after 25th Nov 2013

on static caravan jointly owned.She is saying that this is son's caravan and he must plenty of money to afford to pay it.He did not pay it..

Do you mean that the static caravan is jointly owned by mother and son? If so then it will probably be classed as an asset of his regardless of who pays the ground rent. In fact if it's rented out then that rent would be considered an income for both tax purposes and child maintenance assessment.

Maybe Mum 3 knows about this static caravan because she has been to stay there when your son and her were dating? Young lads like to boast about the 'stuff' they have so maybe Mum 3 got a distorted picture of his financial situation. The truth will come out in the wash.