Extended Mortgage term and Buildings Insurance Premiums.

[Still Waving]

The £17 k figure is nothing more than an estimate. I started with an unknown value, a known term (370 months) a start date, and a few payment examples along the way. I was saying it was 5.3 in 1998, not 1993.

OK, I was misled by the way you set it out - "I've used the mortgage calculator and played around with the interest rates from what i can fathom where in place in 1993. A 17K mortgage @ a rate of 5.3% gets me £93 a month, which is in keeping with what they say i was paying in 1998 too."

However, according to the table in the link I provided, the rate would likely have been between 7.5% and 8% in 1998. This is all conjecture and only the lender's documents will give the true picture. A Subject Access Request ought to provide the annual statements and the rates of interest. When the BoE rates go up lenders are quick to increase their rates, but when the BoE rate goes down, the lenders lag behind on reducing their rates.

There were so many rate changes during the period '89 to '93, that it is impossible to come up with accurate calculations without the lender's rates info.

Ok Thanks Roger. I suppose i can't do anything until they answer my complaint. They could of course just settle with me but i just want to be prepared incase they do not. Thats why i'm just trying to gather as much info and insight as i can.

[Roger]

What i am trying to establish is what state the mortgage account was in on the 1st of Jan, 1993 when it was given a term of 30 years and 10 months.
Their own letters tell me i was quoted and paid and installment of £118 , that was when it was 12.75% . My maths tells me that it should of been a good bit higher, and even higher again when the rate raised to 13.5%. I've just looked now and i see the payments would of been about £170 when the rates hit 15% . At no point do i ever recall paying more than £120 a month, ever. Based on that certainley for 1989,1990,1991,1992 the account was going up. I think it is safe to say the mortgage at the start of 1993 would of been higher than when i started it in 1989 ?

Random question, if the installment of £118 was not enough, how long do you think a mortgage lender would let you go not paying the correct amount, one month,six months , a year or more ?

I am afraid you are missing details perhaps only known to the Lender.
I explain there is or was Forward Contracts. These offset risks by fixing terms for a duration. Racing Bookies for instance offset bets to cover themselves! Well Bankers are no different. The idea is that for a fixed term the Rates (interest etc. are prior fixed ).
This happened in my own Case with a mortgage which when taken was at a certain rate and duration. Much Much later it was turned into a fixed term (rate and duration) forward Contract. It only came to light when I asked for a final figure to clear the mortgage and was told sorry but its still got `X` years to run.

See the problem! Markets rates and modern practices BUT the Lender's contractual terms for whatever period have been later varied without telling YOU!
This is why I suggest you take or ask for Legal Advice.

Someone with a knowledge of this Lender and these Mortgages

What i am trying to establish is what state the mortgage account was in on the 1st of Jan, 1993 when it was given a term of 30 years and 10 months.
Their own letters tell me i was quoted and paid and installment of £118 , that was when it was 12.75% . My maths tells me that it should of been a good bit higher, and even higher again when the rate raised to 13.5%. I've just looked now and i see the payments would of been about £170 when the rates hit 15% . At no point do i ever recall paying more than £120 a month, ever. Based on that certainley for 1989,1990,1991,1992 the account was going up. I think it is safe to say the mortgage at the start of 1993 would of been higher than when i started it in 1989 ?

Random question, if the installment of £118 was not enough, how long do you think a mortgage lender would let you go not paying the correct amount, one month,six months , a year or more ?

The £17 k figure is nothing more than an estimate. I started with an unknown value, a known term (370 months) a start date, and a few payment examples along the way. I was saying it was 5.3 in 1998, not 1993.

[Still Waving]

Hi

Can you clarify where you got the rate of 5.3% in 1993?

According to this link (page 5, final column)-

https://www.bsa.org.uk/BSA/files/5c/...21c25f3cbd.pdf

it would more likely have been around 8%.

Edit: Also, where has that £17k figure come from?

Hi again, i done some more digging. My paperwork shows my mortgage has been "re started" on 1st Jan 1993, with a term of 370 months, so 30 years and 10 months. I've used the mortgage calculator and played around with the interest rates from what i can fathom where in place in 1993. A 17K mortgage @ a rate of 5.3% gets me £93 a month, which is in keeping with what they say i was paying in 1998 too. Rate was 1% higher in 98 and they mention i was paying £98 a month. So not bang on, but close enough. I think i can safely establish that my mortgage balance must of been roughly £17,000 in 1993 when it was re started ? Please let me know if i'm going wrong here with my working out.

So if the original mortgage was for £13,300 and in four years its gone up to £17,000 then you'd fully expect to be in trouble with your mortgage provider ? But no, they provided a solution without telling me there was a problem. Thats really very kind of them. I think the enormity of what has happened has started to dawn on me. Is any one else thinking what i'm thinking ?

Bear in mind, i've never had so much as a cross word from them over the years, never been in trouble with them or anything. As far as i've always known my mortgage has ran without issue, well until i found out it had been extended.

Yes that figure of £118.69 was my original repayment. Thats what i'd always paid until they told me any different. I'm beginning to fully grasp what has happened here. It was never enough, but it was their fault. When it has come to light, instead of telling me they have kickstarted the mortgage with a start date of 1st January 1993 and with a term of 370 months they said nothing, hoping i would never realise until many years later. Which is what happened.

[Still Waving]

Hi

First thing to check - is that figure of £118.69, quoted in that letter, correct ie was that your original repayment?

The interest figure for the first year in that calculator seems correct by my own calculations. The way repayments are normally calculated by building societies (I say normally because AN clearly had some odd practices), is that the interest is calculated on the balance outstanding at the start of each year (whenever their year starts). The interest is added to the account and is paid before the principal. In the early years the principal balance is reduced by a very small amount. You'll note in that calculator that the principal element of the monthly repayment is only £6.19.

Usually, if the total repayments made during the year are less than the interest and any insurance debit, then the balance at the end of the year will be higher than at the beginning. Therefore the interest added for the following year will be more than the preceding year (assuming the interest rate is unchanged).

In your case, if you were underpaying each month for several years, then your outstanding balance would have been going up each year, and consequently more interest being added.

Ok, i:



Also i have used an online calculator to work out what they payments should be/ have been. They're not even close:



Have i got my sums wrong ? If that calculator is correct then it looks like AN where seriously undercharging me ?

[Still Waving]

You certainly seem to have a case for grievance. I can't comment on what would be realistic to expect from them by way of redress. You should probably expect some letter ping-pong before you get their 'Final Response', so I think you need to be patient, however much that grates.

Don't take a course where you are out of your depth, and remember that in the case on non-payment their ultimate sanction is to repossess, although they have to be able to show that all reasonable attempts to resolve the situation have failed. That would be difficult if there is an ongoing formal complaint.

See if Colin Quinn can give some helpful input.

Good luck.

[Roger]

OK here is the problem they will have a registered charge on your property!
So irrespective of how you feel it would be unwise NOT TO PAY.

You need to seek professional advice.
@Colin G Quinn

Contact Colin email of phone at colin@joannaconnollysolicitors.co.uk or by telephoning 0330 053 9340. Our initial advice is always free.

Hi ,

[Still Waving]

Hi

I did not intend criticism when I said you did not increase your repayments. It's how Satander might look at it (if they still have a record of that), but it's easy to say "increase your repayments to get back to your original term" but that's easier said than done after it has drifted for a few years, and it doesn't excuse AN's cock-ups.

With all those articles you have dug out, you have some ammunition to go back at Santander with, if they rebuff you initially.

Good luck with your complaint.

Ok, i have done some more digging. You're correct , they did give me an option on how to get the term back to 25 yrs but i couldn't afford to do that at the time. But my main gripe is that "i also see from the file..........there have been slight underpayments" , that and a total of about just under £400 worth of insurance premiums seems to have added 9 years on the mortgage term. Anyway i now find that prior to my complaint again in 2002 they had indeed been compensating people and returning the mortgage terms back to original terms. I was never contacted by them, nor given any option of redress.
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/...n-records.html

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/...-National.html

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/...nightmare.html

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/...dy-couple.html

I've decided first port of call is to contact Santander which i've just done through resolver. I expect to get the same treatment the other complainants got. Whether i will is another thing. I'll keep updated if anyone is interested. Not sure where i will go next if Santander just chase me so i suppose i'll do some homework just incase.