Invisible Man's UE diary

[InvisibleMan]

Re: Invisible Man's UE diary

SAINSBURYS BANK 1

Credit card
Date commenced: 2008
Approx balance: £3000
Date last full payment: 2009
Currently not paying
Status in arrears, defaulted 2009
Account owner: Arrow Global
DCA: Moorcroft

Key:
Red text = creditor action
blue text = my action
green text = comment

2009
April DMP started
Aug S87 default notice served
Oct 31st Notice of intended litigation from Moorcroft
2010
Jan 7th Send letter to Moorcroft requesting docs under CPR
Jan 22nd Moorcroft reply stating they are in the process of obtaining a copy of the consumer credit agreement.
Feb 15th Moorcroft letter enclosing "requested documentation". All it contains is copy statements, but no agreement. The agreement was never supplied.
2017
Jan Stop DMP payments
Mar 17th Moorcroft send settlement offer. ignored
June 15th Letter from Moorcroft stating they are trying to contact me. Ignored
June 16th Receive statement of account from - wait for it - Arrow Global, also informing me that the account was assigned to them in April 2013, and that Moorcroft are managing the account on their behalf.
Nice of them to tell me the account was assigned 4 years ago, as I've never previously received any notice of this I have never sent a SAR or CCA request.
22nd June s.77-79 CCA request sent to Arrow Global
22nd JuneSAR sent to Sainsburys
30th JuneLetter from Sainsburys re the SAR, asking me to sign on the dotted line (literally) and return to them, so they can "complete their security checks". Methinks I'm not giving them my signature (SAR letter was typed signature). Can they refuse to comply without it?

I know I won't be the first to have received a request like this from a creditor. I'm interested to know what others have done when asked to provide a signature in response to sending a SAR. If I don't comply with their request, can they legitimately refuse to comply with the SAR?

Thanks

[The Tech Clerk]

signature required no need for all the hastle, it is a legal request by you ?

[InvisibleMan]

signature required no need for all the hastle, it is a legal request by you ?

Hi Tech Clerk, are you saying because it is a legal request I need to provide my handwritten signature? Sorry if I've misunderstood you, but the SAR template advises to use a typed name, which I did.

[InvisibleMan]

Re: Invisible Man's UE diary

MBNA

Credit card
Date commenced: 2001
Balance approx: £11,000
Date last full payment: 2009
Currently not paying
Status in arrears, defaulted 2009
Account owner: Hillesden Securities aka Direct Legal & Collections

Key:
Red text = creditor action
blue text = my action
green text = comment

2009
April 1. DMP offer made. (NB MBNA accept DMP payments every month until June 2011)
June 2. Letter from MBNA rejecting DMP offer!
Sept 9th 3. Demand letter from MBNA
Sept 25th 4. CCA request sent to MBNA
Oct 8th 5. MBNA reply to 4. above, with copy of agreement & separate T&Cs
Oct 9th 6. MBNA send sec 87 default notice
Oct 19th 7. MBNA send letter informing me they have sold the account to “Direct Legal (Dtl)”
Oct 26th 8. Letter from Direct Legal & Collections (dlc) that the account has been sold to “Hillesden, trading as Direct Legal & Collections (dlc)”
Nov 9th 9. Demand letter from dlc
Nov 14th 10. "Account in Dispute" Letter sent to MBNA, challenging the enforceability of the improperly executed agreement sent at 5. above
Nov 19th 11. “Notice of debt recovery” from dlc on behalf of Hillesden
Nov 24th 12. Letter from Hillesden in response to 10. above, admitting they cannot produce a copy of the agreement
Dec 16th 13. Letter from MBNA in response to 10. above, stating my objections “are not well founded” and "unacceptable"
2010
Jan 7th 14. Letter sent to Hillesden in response to 11. above, requesting all relevant documentation under the CPR
Jan 28th 15. A 2nd Sec 87 default notice received, from dlc “on behalf of Hillesden”
Feb 10th 16. Letter from Hillesden in response to 14. above, stating they are waiting for a copy of the original default notice from MBNA. They also enclose a “copy” of the agreement, but it is different to 5. above, as the T&Cs have an additional paragraph not in the earlier copy sent to me
Feb 19th 17. Letter from Hillesden quoting McGuffick v RBS, and admitting they “may not be able to enforce the agreement until the documentation is provided”, but will continue collection action anyway
May 19th 18. Letter from Hillesden stating that enclosed is a copy of the original default notice from MBNA, and that they will continue collection action. However there is no copy of default enclosed.
Throughout all the above, and continuing until June 2011 when the DMP started paying Hillesden, MBNA happily received DMP payments, even though they claim to have sold the account in 2009.
2016
March Letter from dlc informing me that the account has been bought by "ME 111 Limited", and stating that ME 111 Limited and Hillesden Securities are both part of the "Cabot Credit Management Group". Also says "although ME 11 Limited are the legal and beneficial owners of your account, you should continue to communicate with, and make payments, to your current service provider" - not sure if that refers to dlc or Hillesden?
2017
June 15th Letter from dlc providing statement of account for the last 6 years. States creditor name as MBNA
June Agreement sent to Niddy for checking

June 25thNiddy says the agreement is fairly illegible, and as it stands Advised to send illegibility template if they pursue it.

Update: I've just found a letter in my files, dated March 2016, from dlc (I've now inserted it into the timeline above), informing me that "ME 111 Limited" bought the account from Hillesden, and that they are both part of the "Cabot Credit Management Group". Should I send anything off to any of them, or sit tight for now?
July 5thLetter received from Cabot Financial Europe stating that Cabot Credit Management Group owns the account. (Doesn't mention assignment so I read it as already owns...) and goes on to say the account has been transferred from dlc to Cabot Financial, "in order to continue providing you with the best possible service"

Update. Should I sit tight for now, seeing it is UE?

[Still Waving]

Update. Should I sit tight for now, seeing it is UE?

Looks like it is just a letter for information, not requiring any action from you, doesn't it?

[InvisibleMan]

Looks like it is just a letter for information, not requiring any action from you, doesn't it?

Yes it is for information only

[InvisibleMan]

Re: Invisible Man's UE diary

SAINSBURYS BANK 1

Credit card
Date commenced: 2008
Approx balance: £3000
Date last full payment: 2009
Currently not paying
Status in arrears, defaulted 2009
Account owner: Arrow Global
DCA: Moorcroft

Key:
Red text = creditor action
blue text = my action
green text = comment

2009
April DMP started
Aug S87 default notice served
Oct 31st Notice of intended litigation from Moorcroft
2010
Jan 7th Send letter to Moorcroft requesting docs under CPR
Jan 22nd Moorcroft reply stating they are in the process of obtaining a copy of the consumer credit agreement.
Feb 15th Moorcroft letter enclosing "requested documentation". All it contains is copy statements, but no agreement. The agreement was never supplied.
2017
Jan Stop DMP payments
Mar 17th Moorcroft send settlement offer. ignored
June 15th Letter from Moorcroft stating they are trying to contact me. Ignored
June 16th Receive statement of account from - wait for it - Arrow Global, also informing me that the account was assigned to them in April 2013, and that Moorcroft are managing the account on their behalf. Nice of them to tell me the account was assigned 4 years ago, as I've never previously received any notice of this I have never sent a SAR or CCA request.
June 22nd s.77-79 CCA request sent to Arrow Global
June 22nd SAR sent to Sainsburys
June 30th Letter from Sainsburys re the SAR, asking me to sign on the dotted line (literally) and return to them, so they can "complete their security checks". Methinks I'm not giving them my signature (SAR letter was typed signature). Can they refuse to comply without it?
July 7th Letter from Arrow Global stating they do not accept they "are the creditor as envisaged by the above statute", but they will assist in obtaining the requested docs. Collection activity suspended pending provision of docs etc.

August 2017 Letter from Arrow saying they're still waiting for docs from OC
September 2017 Letter from Arrow saying they're still waiting

2018

October Letter from Arrow responding to CCA request, enclosing copy agreement.

2019

January Letter from Arrow saying account transferred to Drydens
January Chase letter from Drydens. Ignored.

February LBC received from Drydens. Am sending agreement to Niddy for checking, before responding to LBC
February Niddy says

UPDATE

[The Tech Clerk]

sign the SAR as this is an item for which confidentialty exist and the bank are correct in requiring you to sign, would you issue a cheque without signature and expect it to get paid\\.>???

[The Tech Clerk]

sign the SAR as this is an item for which confidentialty exist and the bank are correct in requiring you to sign, would you issue a cheque without signature and expect it to get paid\\.>???

[InvisibleMan]

sign the SAR as this is an item for which confidentiality exist and the bank are correct in requiring you to sign, would you issue a cheque without signature and expect it to get paid\\.>???

No, I wouldn't issue a cheque without signing it, but this isn't about a cheque. I've followed the guidance on the SAR template letter, which says to sign digitally, or type your name, which must be for a reason. I understand from the forum the reason for this is to reduce the risk of your signature being copied and used by a creditor/debt purchaser to re-construct documents. Hence why I'm asking the question. If, as you say, a signature is required because it is a legal request, why does the template letter advise not to sign?

I'm new to this UE route, and learning as I go, and appreciate any advice/opinion, but now I'm a tad confused

[The Tech Clerk]

from my personal experiance, you choose? your way if you are getting the required response from the SAR requestQ!

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

I've followed the guidance on the SAR template letter, which says to sign digitally, or type your name, which must be for a reason. I understand from the forum the reason for this is to reduce the risk of your signature being copied and used by a creditor/debt purchaser to re-construct documents

The AAD way of doing things is to sign digitally.

Every now and then you get a pedantic original creditor who worries that they might be breaching the Data Protection Act if they send documents to a 'stranger'.

I expect in your case it's because you've not been corresponding with them since 2013(?) and you've also moved house since then so they can't be sure that you are really 'you' if the SAR request is coming from an address they don't have on file especially if you're not visible at that address on things like the electoral roll on your CRA file.

You could reply with a copy of some identification which has your name and address on it such as your current Council Tax bill and a utility bill to put their mind at rest. Or a copy of your Driving Licence where the signature will probably be so small there's nothing for anyone to copy.

If they persist in asking for your signature on a letter then make it unique so it's recognisable enough as your signature but with a twist such as a dot inside an 'O' etc.

Di

[InvisibleMan]

The AAD way of doing things is to sign digitally.

Every now and then you get a pedantic original creditor who worries that they might be breaching the Data Protection Act if they send documents to a 'stranger'.

I expect in your case it's because you've not been corresponding with them since 2013(?) and you've also moved house since then so they can't be sure that you are really 'you' if the SAR request is coming from an address they don't have on file especially if you're not visible at that address on things like the electoral roll on your CRA file.

You could reply with a copy of some identification which has your name and address on it such as your current Council Tax bill and a utility bill to put their mind at rest. Or a copy of your Driving Licence where the signature will probably be so small there's nothing for anyone to copy.

If they persist in asking for your signature on a letter then make it unique so it's recognisable enough as your signature but with a twist such as a dot inside an 'O' etc.

Di

Thanks Di,

I haven't used a digital signature before and wouldn't know how to produce my own. I will send some proof of ID/address first, and see how that goes.

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

Thanks Di,

I will send some proof of ID/address first, and see how that goes.

That all makes sense because you're not 'on the clock' to get the information since there are no legal proceedings issued. You're simply at the research stage.

You've made a valid SAR request which means they must deliver the goods within 40 days of your request 'or else'.

If they want to fritter away time with silly demands then so be it.

The deadline to comply is the deadline to comply. End of (as David Brent would say)

Di

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

I haven't used a digital signature before and wouldn't know how to produce my own.

I'm not the best person to ask how to do that since computer technology is not my greatest strength (ask anyone who knows me)

Di