Cymruambyth v M&S

[cymruambyth]

Letters of claim have now arrived

[cymruambyth]

Letters of claim have now arrived

One is a personal reserve and the other is a store card from the 90s that never became a credit card. These have been with 1stC since January of this year and have been ignored, so although documentation supplied by M&S, nothing has been requested from 1stC.

[nightwatch]

Bummer!!!

[JLC]

Good luck - hope they get thrown out! I have an old M&S card that started off as a charge card. The new DCA dont know that it was M&S they think its something else!

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

One is a personal reserve and the other is a store card from the 90s that never became a credit card. These have been with 1stC since January of this year and have been ignored, so although documentation supplied by M&S, nothing has been requested from 1stC.

If M&S did not comply with your previous s 77-79 CCA Request(s) and they've both been deemed UE, then nothing is gained by sending another request to 1st Credit.

Is the full history of each of these in a post on this thread?

Di

[cymruambyth]

If M&S did not comply with your previous s 77-79 CCA Request(s) and they've both been deemed UE, then nothing is gained by sending another request to 1st Credit.

Is the full history of each of these in a post on this thread?

Di

Just the last few years in detail, though it was quiet until then as I was paying a nominal amount! I’m going out tonight, but can fill in any gaps tomorrow. Thank yo7 for having a look.

[Spud]

What a bummer and one less thing you can do without.......talk about crap timing

Its never a good time when this happens but as I understand it you are in a strong position and most importantly you have the knowledgeable people here on AAD who will do
everything they can to help and assist you.......in the same way that you have always selflessly helped and assisted others over the years.....me included

Di is a massive help and is already on the case..... if I know her......she is already 28 steps ahead of them....and we have only just got started....
Together we will get this sorted and show them the error of their ways

[cymruambyth]

History:
M&S chargecard opened in 1988, never upgraded
M&S Personal Reserve opened 1996
Both accounts defaulted in 2003 and kept by M&S small payment set up
2014 CCAs requested, initially enforceable by Niddy
April 2014 F&F rejected
June 2014, CCAs requested again and ignored, payments stopped
Oct 2015 CCA reminder sent and documents supplied, now believed to be UE
Nov 2015, sent to Westcott and ignored
June 2016 sent to CSL and ignored
January 2017 both account sold to 1stC. Numerous calls and letters, all ignored
7/12/17 letters of claim from Lester Aldridge

I think this covers the salient points! ( I possibly have original documentation for one account )

[cymruambyth]

Annual statements have arrived; nothing in and nothing out.

[Susie]

Good luck with this, its a nasty time to have them try it, but you have the best possible people behind you who will do everything possible to help

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

Both accounts defaulted in 2003 and kept by M&S small payment set up
2014 CCAs requested, initially enforceable by Niddy
. . . .
June 2014, CCAs requested again and ignored, payments stopped
Oct 2015 CCA reminder sent and documents supplied, now believed to be UE
. . . .
January 2017 both account sold to 1stC. Numerous calls and letters, all ignored
7/12/17 letters of claim from Lester Aldridge

If 1st Credit have not been sent anything since they were assigned the debt almost a year ago (7th January 2017) then that'll be the reason for these two Letters Before Claim from their solicitors. AAD members used to send SWID template letters to a new debt owner or DCA once things started to get threatening.

You appear to have sent two (or three?) CCA Requests to M&S in the past. Twice(?) in 2014 and then again in 2015 (or was that a reminder?). The initial documents were deemed enforceable (both accounts?) and then deemed unenforceable (both accounts?). Were they the same documents each time?

It's your choice as to how to handle the situation.

You could continue to ignore 1st Credit/Lester Aldridge and it's likely two claims will be issued for debts which you believe to be unenforceable. Or you could reply to the LBC ticking Box D in Section 1 which states you dispute the claim.

If a debt is close to becoming SB (these aren't from what you say) then a bit of filibustering at this stage may help you get to the finishing line. On the other hand if you ask for too much evidence at this stage that gives the creditor the opportunity to source or reconstitute the documents they need before they issue a claim which can demolish some of your potential Defence. Each situation is different.

I can't see the outstanding balance of either of these debts because that may give some indication as to whether the debt owner may wish to proceed to court come hell or high water after the 30 days expire regardless of what you do/don't do at this stage.

So I would send a Subject Access Request to M&S asap to get the full history of both accounts (one SAR will cover both) to see what the Transaction Log says about DNs being served (or not) and other statutory obligations unfulfilled (such as s 86 c Notice of Sums in Arrears). If the evidence needed to prove the case is not in the SAR then how can 1st Credit obtain it if it doesn't exist in the first place

There are numerous reasons for a claim to be defeated in court not just the credit agreement so try not to fret.

Di

[cymruambyth]

Thanks for the reply. FirstC have never been replied to because they have never been given the address that I am living at - the general guidance was to ignore them.

I will reply to the LBC disputing the claims. (Both are over £3k). My SAR will be posted tomorrow.

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

FirstC have never been replied to because they have never been given the address that I am living at

Then you need to decide whether you should reply to the Letter Before Claim from your current address or the address to which they've been writing for a year.

You say you've been getting those letters so presumably you have a reliable redirection in place (Royal Mail, family member etc?).

However if a claim were to be served on the old address and you didn't respond (because you didn't get it for whatever reason) then you're vulnerable to a CCJ (Default Judgment) which may be tricky to set aside since you have a 'connection' with that address so hard to argue (under oath) you had no idea what was going on. The Judgment creditor could argue it was your 'last known address' especially since you're now replying to the LBC (so must have received it).

Was the Notice of Assignment served/sent to the old address too?

See what turns up in your M&S SAR.

Di

[cymruambyth]

Thanks for the reply. SAR has gone. Two NOAs, 1 to each address!

I will reply to the letter of claim with my new address. From my limited knowledge I believe that I have a reasonably good case based on the documents that I have received. Even though I have various documents I assume I request agreement, default and NOA, if there anything else I need to ask for? I am assuming that there will be claims, am just trying to delay the inevitable!

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

Even though I have various documents I assume I request agreement, default and NOA, if there anything else I need to ask for? I am assuming that there will be claims, am just trying to delay the inevitable!

When you say you have various documents I assume you mean paperwork which you've kept in your own files. However a debt purchaser doesn't necessarily have access to that information. There can be 'conditions' in some Deeds of Assignment which limits what they can have once the debt is purchased.

What you receive in your SAR from M&S is between you and them not 1st Credit. What you have in your own files is private since any claim (which hasn't happened yet!) is likely to be allocated to the Small Claims Track. In the Fast Track (over £10k claims) both parties have to disclose all documents in their possession even if it harms their case. You won't have to do that since you say each debt is around £3k.

The decision on what to request (or not) at this stage is down to you. It's a balancing act.

If you ask for documents which are not in their possession then you give them the heads up to source or reconstitute them so that they get all their ducks in a row before issuing a claim.

If you don't ask for too much then they might issue a claim without the evidence they need to prove their case. Then they can be sent a CPR 31.14 Request forcing disclosure. Or they can be sent Part 18 Questions which are time-limited and if they don't comply the court may have the power to force disclosure or strike out their claim if they fail to do that by the imposed deadline.

That's why there is not one definitive answer on how to respond (or not) to the new Pre Action Protocol Letter Before Claim process.

Di