Debt Diary 2020

[Diana Mayhew]

AG used to try and say they were not the creditor and therefore not liable

I sometimes wonder whether that's not wholly inaccurate if there could be 'assignment issues' . . .

Di

[Warwick65]

Not sure if they still do it but AG used to try and say they were not the creditor and therefore not liable BUT out of the goodness of their hearts they would try to source the documents.

complete load of but god bless em for trying .

[Diana Mayhew]

Hi Di,

I’ve just checked the letter. They acknowledge the request and have submitted it to Arrows for the information, and state they have placed the account on hold..

Good. So you have a letter confirming your CCA Request was passed to Arrow who have failed to comply with it.

This means it's unenforceable unless or until they do comply. Simples.

No need to do anything, and I also suggest you don't rock the boat by challenging that curious letter from NCO which will only draw attention to yourself.

Di

[adam92]

No need to say sorry. It can take a little while to settle into this forum’s way of doing things.

I can see you received an acknowledgment of your CCA Request from NCO at the time. Did the letter say what they would do next, such as forward it to Arrow or ask the original creditor for the documents?

Di

Hi Di,

I’ve just checked the letter. They acknowledge the request and have submitted it to Arrows for the information, and state they have placed the account on hold..

[Diana Mayhew]

Hi Di,

I don't know if it's of relevance, CCA Request was sent to NCO, as they are dealing with it on behalf of AG.

No need to say sorry. It can take a little while to settle into this forum’s way of doing things.

I can see you received an acknowledgment of your CCA Request from NCO at the time. Did the letter say what they would do next, such as forward it to Arrow or ask the original creditor for the documents?

Di

[adam92]

(Front Page Post)
..

Type: CC
Date Commenced: 2014
Default: Never & since sold on.
Balance: £1300
Last Paid: July 20
Status: Awaiting CCA
Owner: Sold to Arrow/NCO (Vanquis)

(Each month a statement is received from Arrow Global since 2019)

Dec 2015 - Over limit paid £1.00
Jan 2016 -Missed payment of £130
Feb 2016 - Over limit continued.
Mar 2016 - ATP Set up
Mar 2019 - Removed from CRA files
July 2019 - Account Sold to Arrows (managed by NCO Europe) not on any files.
July 2020 - CCA Request Sent to NCO Europe stopped making payments from this point onwards.
Aug 2020 - Confirmation of request sent to me
Feb 2021 - Notice of Default (Di notes this isn't a compliant notice)


...

Hi Di,

Sorry for that. I've updated the main post on the front page. And fixed the dates as I gave you an incorrect date previously, this above is now the lay of the land at the moment..

I don't know if it's of relevance, CCA Request was sent to NCO, as they are dealing with it on behalf of AG.

[Diana Mayhew]

That letter is not a compliant Default Notice under s87(1) CCA 1974.

If you stopped making your contractual payments to Vanquis (the original creditor) in 2016 then a Default Notice should have been served then, although it's unclear from your first post whether that was when you stopped an ATP (Arrangement To Pay) or made your last minimum contractual payment.

You say that the account was removed from your CRA files "a few years ago" which could be the case if a Default had been registered (six years earlier). However, your first post says that the account was opened in 2014.

Or did Vanquis remove your/their account from the CRAs when it was assigned to Arrow in 2018 who then didn't start reporting it (or do they)?

Your account can only be registered as Defaulted once.

You've said that you aim is to get a mortgage in a couple of years when all the Defaults (and associated accounts) should drop off your CRA files, so although you understandably feel upset by this letter there is time to deal with things if a Default is registered at the end of April (assuming Arrow are reporting to the CRAs).

The important thing is Arrow has not complied with your s78 CCA Request sent to them in July 2020 so this debt is currently unenforceable

That letter also says they have the right to terminate your agreement under Clause B19 of your agreement which they don't appear to have in their possession otherwise they would have sent it to you in response to your CCA Request.

See what happens next and post any update on your thread.

(It helps to update your first post each time there's a development, and then re-quote it with your question, so forum members can see the history as it evolves without searching back through your thread.)

Di

[The Tech Clerk]

Diana Mayhew

[adam92]

Hi Di & Team,

I've had bit of a meltdown from a letter received this morning. My credit file in the next 12 -14 months will lose all defaults and set me on the path for a mortgage with my partner, and I'm trying to demonstrate good behaviour and trust and take control of my actions better.

But this is just going to send it all to pot. I could legitimately cry earlier.

March 2016
I had been struggling with spiralling debt and the interest and agreed a plan of £9/10 a month for March and beyond.
October 2018
They sold the debt to Arrow
July 2020
I stopped paying last summer when the person looking after the account for Arrows (NCO Europe) accepted my CCA request but haven't complied still.
Feb 2021
Notice of Default sent from Arrows

From what I understood, a default could only be provided by the original creditor Vanquis. Who never defaulted me and removed the account from all my credit files a few years ago.

If that is incorrect, it still feels massively unfair to default in April 2021, when the account has been receiving tiny payments since March 2016..

I do have a SAR from Vanquis which has no default notice but does not the assignment and sale to Arrow (managed by NCO) in the coms log.

Is there anything I can do here? I appreciate any advice you have. I have attached a scan of the letter I received today.

[adam92]

Do Lowell ever email you at the correct email address? If so it might just be a typo on their part.

As for the rights and wrongs of sending CCA requests via email- I will leave that up to someone better than me to comment on however - a CCA request is for information purposes only. I think it is also worth remembering that at the moment we should all be working from home where possible so actually getting the documents out to you in Royal Mail may be difficult. Of course that is academic at the moment as they don't have anything to send.

Lowell are slightly inefficient as I remember in the same delivery on the same day I received CCA documents AND a letter saying they didn't have them ! Go figure

It’s a typo on my email address. Not sure how they have it to begin with (never received email but I must have and forgotten years ago). I’ll wait to hear from them and inform them the email is incorrect ?

[Warwick65]

Do Lowell ever email you at the correct email address? If so it might just be a typo on their part.

As for the rights and wrongs of sending CCA requests via email- I will leave that up to someone better than me to comment on however - a CCA request is for information purposes only. I think it is also worth remembering that at the moment we should all be working from home where possible so actually getting the documents out to you in Royal Mail may be difficult. Of course that is academic at the moment as they don't have anything to send.

Lowell are slightly inefficient as I remember in the same delivery on the same day I received CCA documents AND a letter saying they didn't have them ! Go figure

[adam92]

Hi Di,

As far as I’m aware they do now.

The Lowell request was sent via actual address and they replied so that’s sorted.

The email address is a typo error so it wouldn’t work.

Idem (overdraft) I will again send this week so that will update the address.

[Diana Mayhew]

Hi Di

I think you may have accidentally missed what I'd updated with apologies:

-CCA Sent and Confirmation received this weekend from Lowell

The letter they sent also said

"They cannot send me anything via royal mail if they get the request fulfilled and only via email to (an incorrect email) and they have a password in the letter for the documents if they arrive.

I incorrect in thinking this is ridiculous and they should be sending via the post?

I didn't miss your post - it's just easier to tackle each debt in a separate post so as not to cause confusion.

Can you just clarify whether all your debt owners only have your old address not your new address? You've received a letter from Lowell in response to your CCA Request, so which address did they send that?

You say the email address they have for you is incorrect. Is it simply a typo or is it nothing to do with you nowadays or maybe never was anything to do with you?

The issue of whether Lowell should send a response to your CCA Request by post or email only arises if/when they have something to send.

I wouldn't pick a fight with them at this stage - wait until the 14 days are up before deciding your next step which will depend on your answers to my questions.

Di

[adam92]

If Idem have sent a letter to an address where you don't live I'm not sure you need to respond to it unless you want them to think you still live there, which may cause you problems if they issue/serve a claim to that address which you don't receive (because you don't live there) and then you'd struggle to get it set-aside because you've indicated that you do live there by replying to their recent letter.

If you follow my logic

Have you sent a CCA Request to Idem for this current account? Overdrafts are covered by s78 CCA which Jo explains here >




Di

Hi Di

I think you may have accidentally missed what I'd updated with apologies:

-CCA Sent and Confirmation received this weekend from Lowell

The letter they sent also said

"They cannot send me anything via royal mail if they get the request fulfilled and only via email to (an incorrect email) and they have a password in the letter for the documents if they arrive.

If I want it via the post I must wait until restrictions are lifted by the government..

Why is that relevant?
There are no restrictions to sending out mail as they've proven themselves by confirming my request and chasing to begin with.

I incorrect in thinking this is ridiculous and they should be sending via the post?

IDEM- I wasn't aware CCA's could cover an overdraft but after reading that I can send a CCA

[Diana Mayhew]

**New Entry

Type: OD
Date Commenced: August 2008
Default: May 2013
Balance: £780?
Last Paid: Jun/July 20
Status: Unknown
Owner: Sold to Idem via Halifax.

2020
Jun/July - Last payment sent.
2021
Jan 21- Letter from Idem to previous address about outstanding balance to discuss payment plan

If Idem have sent a letter to an address where you don't live I'm not sure you need to respond to it unless you want them to think you still live there, which may cause you problems if they issue/serve a claim to that address which you don't receive (because you don't live there) and then you'd struggle to get it set-aside because you've indicated that you do live there by replying to their recent letter.

If you follow my logic

Have you sent a CCA Request to Idem for this current account? Overdrafts are covered by s78 CCA which Jo explains here >

The claim against our clients in this case was for monies owing under a personal Current Account Overdraft. We lost at first instance before a District Judge in Peterborough County Court and appealed the decision before HHJ Walden-Smith sitting at Cambridge County Court.

The Appeal was successful yesterday. This is an important case because it confirms that consumers using the unenforceability provisions of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 can successfully defend claims for personal Current Account Overdrafts in court. In this instant case the Appeal court found the personal Current Account Overdraft agreement to be unenforceable pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act because of lack of evidence of compliance with the requirements of the OFT determination.

It was also accepted that Creditors must comply with S 78 Consumer Credit Act 1974 requests relating to personal Current Account Overdrafts, not just credit cards and loans. In this case the Appeal court did find that MFS Portfolio Ltd had complied with the S 78 Consumer Credit Act request. If they hadn’t complied with the statutory request then the personal Current Account Overdraft would have been unenforceable pursuant to s.78 (6) (a) Consumer Credit Act , which is contrary to the position creditors normally take.

Di