Night Monkey's diary

[Pat]

Well, I’ve ploughed through the ~2000 pages that HSBC sent me (~1100 of them statements) and can’t find anything that looks like an agreement or Terms & Conditions relating to the credit card, which is what they’re chasing me for now. A few interesting snippets came to light though, one of which was a consolidation loan paid off around 10 years ago that I’d completely forgotten about. In addition to what might be considered ‘valid’ profits I did find summaries of interest and punitive fees charged between 2015 and 2018, when I was having the most trouble. These totalled - wait for it - very nearly £4500. In one year alone I was hit with £800 of unauthorised overdraft charges in addition to the interest. I can’t claim that the overdrafts were authorised but £25 per day when I was clearly struggling does smack of sticking the boot in and does temper any guilt I might be feeling for not managing to keep up the payments.

I also found a list of payments via StepChange which lists the amounts as written off in April 2023, coinciding with the sale to Lowell’s. One of them includes a ~£400 payment ‘Bank Giro Manually Posted’ which definitely didn’t come from me. I initially thought that this might be from Lowell but it’s dated 2021 - does anybody know what this might be?

I've drafted a CCA request, most likely I'll send it on Friday via recorded delivery.

I know historically some banks did not consider an agreement to be personal data although if it has your name and address on it I would disagree but hey ho.

SAR paperwork can be so hard to read. I once had an argument with HBOS when they sent me a statement with a 0 balance. I said- see there is nothing owing and they tried to tell me it was an accounting thing - anyway another 700 I didn't pay them :-)

[Roger]

I also found a list of payments via StepChange which lists the amounts as written off in April 2023, coinciding with the sale to Lowell’s. One of them includes a ~£400 payment ‘Bank Giro Manually Posted’ which definitely didn’t come from me. I initially thought that this might be from Lowell but it’s dated 2021 - does anybody know what this might be?

Possibly HSBC for their failure re accounts?

[Night Monkey]

Well, I’ve ploughed through the ~2000 pages that HSBC sent me (~1100 of them statements) and can’t find anything that looks like an agreement or Terms & Conditions relating to the credit card, which is what they’re chasing me for now. A few interesting snippets came to light though, one of which was a consolidation loan paid off around 10 years ago that I’d completely forgotten about. In addition to what might be considered ‘valid’ profits I did find summaries of interest and punitive fees charged between 2015 and 2018, when I was having the most trouble. These totalled - wait for it - very nearly £4500. In one year alone I was hit with £800 of unauthorised overdraft charges in addition to the interest. I can’t claim that the overdrafts were authorised but £25 per day when I was clearly struggling does smack of sticking the boot in and also tempers any guilt I might be feeling for not managing to keep up the payments.

I also found a list of payments via StepChange which lists the amounts as written off in April 2023, coinciding with the sale to Lowell’s. One of them includes a ~£400 payment ‘Bank Giro Manually Posted’ which definitely didn’t come from me. I initially thought that this might be from Lowell but it’s dated 2021 - does anybody know what this might be?

I've drafted a CCA request, most likely I'll send it on Friday via recorded delivery.

[Night Monkey]

There should be something in the bundle which indicates approximately when the account was taken out, eg copy statements.

In the 'Customer Data Utility Report' there is a credit card account opening date of September 2002, followed by several closure/openings related to lost & stolen cards & the like.

[Night Monkey]

Thanks Pat. Despite my previous experience with PRA I'm minded to send a CCA request to Lowell's, I'm sure I can find a template or earlier request somewhere. This will hopefully head them off at the pass but I'll leave it for a couple of days just to be sure in my own mind I'm not rushing into anything.

[Pat]

If a letter of claim were to arrive for a debt that you really wanted to keep out of court then as well as asking for the above documents sending a CCA request may be in order. Sadly of course now, they can reconstitute an accurate version of a DN but they would need to show records that say when and how it was sent which the OC may or mayn't provide to them.

[Still Waving]

There should be something in the bundle which indicates approximately when the account was taken out, eg copy statements.

[Night Monkey]

Consequently, you have never had a proper response to your request?

Correct, I received nothing as a result of my initial request for a copy of the CCA.

I would be inclined to get a Subject Access Request off to HSBC right away, to find out if the compliant documentation could be available to Lowell/Overdales.

I sent off a GDPR request after the accounts were sold to Lowell, and apparently I received the results via secure email. Bizarrely I somehow missed this when the results arrived but found it this evening while looking for the original request. I therefore have yet to update the diary and am in the process of going through it properly.

Initial perusal indicates that I have a default notice but I can find no trace of a CCA. I do vaguely remember discussing a credit card application over the phone and the memory of the workplace I did that from indicates that it would have been around 2005; I have no recollection of signing anything but they may have subsequently sent a completed form.

I'm currently minded to wait for Lowell's next move while I take copious notes of what's in the GDPR files, and put Colin's number on speed dial.

[Kenny91]

Thanks Kenny91 , that's a great help. Can I ask how you responded - did you fill in their forms (if they sent any), or just flood them with a request for documentation?

Yes, the LoC pack had 2-3 pages of basic questions that I filled in and sent back to them recorded delivery within 7-10 days.

The LoC had plenty of red ink and said if no response in 30 days, a claim would be issued. If you get a LoC, you'll notice it for sure.

Also, the associated Overdales cover letter had a second page that starts with the "Background to the Debt", basically all the dates and balances etc from when it was opened.

In my returned reply (and thanks to Roger who had listed on an old thread what to request), I asked for: Copy of the credit agreement including T&Cs; Statement; Notice of Assignment and DN - it was only the failure of the latter that derailed their attempts.

It took them about two months to respond with everything but the DN, then a further two months for Overdales to confirm the DN was unavailable and then a couple more weeks for Lowell to lick their wounds on their dud purchase before saying: "We understand you may need some time before discussing your account because of your circumstances."

Not heard a peep from them since, though they are emailing every couple of weeks on another account which I half expected to feature a LoC over Xmas as seems they take pleasure in messing up people's festivities.

For the record, I never SAR'd the original creditor.

Cheers,

K91

[Still Waving]

From your diary -

"29.9.19 Finally sent CCA request, using one of the returned postal orders :-)
11.10.19 Received a hand-addressed letter today, presumably from HSBC, containing my letter requesting a CCA and the postal order. No covering letter, no compliments slip, nothing else at all."

Just to check , was the request sent to HSBC, was this PO made out to HSBC, and was it still in date at the time?
Consequently, you have never had a proper response to your request?

I would be inclined to get a Subject Access Request off to HSBC right away, to find out if the compliant documentation could be available to Lowell/Overdales.

[Night Monkey]

Thanks Kenny91 , that's a great help. Can I ask how you responded - did you fill in their forms (if they sent any), or just flood them with a request for documentation?

[Kenny91]

Hi there,

In case it helps, I had the exact same situation with Lowell Portfolio 1 Ltd for a debt a couple of summers ago.

The Letter of Acting from Overdales Solicitors arrived one week, then the following week the actual Letter of Claim (LoC) turned up.

I won't put the exact dates of issue, but there was just under 10 days between the pair, so you should probably brace yourself for the LoC as it's likely incoming.

I then had 30 days to respond, which I did, and then Overdales bounced it back to Lowell as the creditor failed to provide the Default Notice from over a decade ago.

My claim was for less than a grand fwiw, but Overdales wanted to add an extra 30% in legal fees/costs.

Best of luck!

K91

[Night Monkey]

Bear that omission in mind, all the same.

Yes, it will be interesting to see how this plays out.

[Still Waving]

Indeed. I suspect it's been carefully drafted to edge right up to an LBA without actually being one to give them as much future wiggle room as possible while scaring me into action.

Standing orders maintained, no further action unless a real letter arrives.

Bear that omission in mind, all the same.

[Night Monkey]

It does say that a deadline for payment must be included, which you say Overdales have not included. Read their letter carefully just to be sure.

I have read it several times, convinced that I'd missed it. There aren't any time restraints on a required response.

In order to comply with the Pre-Action Protocol, a letter should include a multi-page questionnaire for your response to the claim. Was there one?

No, it was a simple one-pager.

Nevertheless, the purpose of a LBA is to convince a debtor to pay - https://www.saunders.co.uk/services/...before-action/

Indeed. I suspect it's been carefully drafted to edge right up to an LBA without actually being one to give them as much future wiggle room as possible while scaring me into action.

Standing orders maintained, no further action unless a real letter arrives.