Night Monkey's diary

[Night Monkey]

Since I'm housekeeping this diary at the moment it seemed pertinent to give a brief update on the threatened legal action from Lowell regarding the (originally) HSBC credit card with a balance of around £5.5k.

To save everyone paging back through my posts I received in January something from Overdales solicitors which may or may not have been a Letter Before Action; it certainly looked like it might be but the consensus here was that it didn't quite meet the criteria and that Lowell were perhaps pushing the bounds without actually initiating the legal process. However, an actual LBA was subsequently received and the usual discussion of whether or not to respond ensued - previously with PRA I didn't and had to go through court action (I won), this time I chose to reply. I didn't fill in the supplied form but requested the usual collection of documents. They responded with a letter attached to what they claimed to be an assignment (I'm not convinced that it was) and a couple of paragraphs of legalese - 'there is no legal requirement for assignment to...', 'our client will not...', etc. - and ultimately confirming that they had raised a query with Lowell.

In March I received the results of that request, a package purportedly containing the terms and conditions, a statement of account and a default notice. It also stated that 'unfortunately we have been unable to obtain a copy of the credit agreement' and that the matter has been referred back to their client.

I took that to be game over for the moment but in April received another package from Lowell, headed 'Responding to your query'. They give some pertinent dates regarding the account and claim that it includes the default notice, terms and conditions, credit agreement and statements. They apparently consider the balance to be valid and owing and have placed the account on hold for 30 days to give me time to review the letter. The only contact since then has been a text message asking me to get in touch.

I have been through the Lowell package and as far as I can tell it is identical to the one from Overdales. Both contain something titled 'credit card agreement terms', but without any details referring to me. The only obvious difference between them is that that Lowell are willing to claim that it contains a credit agreement. My working theory is that Overdales (being solicitors) are held to a higher professional standard than debt purchasers, and of course if the debt is 'valid and owing' (Lowell's opinion) that does not make it enforceable.

So that's where we are now, I'll post updates as and when anything happens.

[Night Monkey]

PRA have flagged the BarclayCard account which was the subject of a failed legal action as closed on the CRAs, which I guess means they've accepted the loss on that one. They have another one (originally an MBNA credit card, ~£7.5k) that they have admitted is currently UE so I'll watch that with interest.

[Night Monkey]

...it would never have occurred to me that debts could be unenforceable.

I was in the same position until I found AAD. Potentially ten-plus years of stress and repayments to companies I'd never heard of that had never lent me a penny.

[Night Monkey]

Surely if they have either failed in court or admitted it is UE they should keep quiet.

As I understand it, if they've failed in court then it's game over, they don't get a second chance.

As far as UE is concerned, they (apparently) have to tell you but it doesn't mean the debt's gone away and they can keep asking for payment, and there's always the chance that whatever the problem is can be rectified at which point enforcement can commence.

[Dottir]

Night Monkey's Third Annual Report

We're now coming up to four years since stopping all payments on five alleged debts so as is now traditional, and again primarily for my benefit, a summary of where each account is in a single post.

MBNA
Last full payment early 2018, defaulted October 2018
Payments to StepChange stopped in March ’20.
Standard letters and texts continue, all ignored.
Current owner - PRA Group UK Portfolios Ltd.
Last update was an internal transfer of ownership.
Current status UE since 'varied T&Cs are unavailable.'

Barclaycard
Last full payment early 2018, and defaulted in August 2018.
Payments to StepChange stopped in March ’20.
Current owner - PRA Group UK Portfolios Ltd.
Current status UE due to failed legal action by PRA.

Santander
Last full payment early 2018, not appearing on credit reports for some reason.
Payments to StepChange stopped in March ’20.
Current owner - Santander
The last contact from drydensfairfax was in February '21. Since then statements and a transfer to ‘Financial Support’, together with a random refund (to the account) of £12.
Current status UE since a CCA was supplied but it’s a random one not specific to me, with no signature.

HSBC credit card
Last full payment early 2018, and defaulted in October 2018.
Payments to StepChange stopped in March ’20.
Account sold to Lowell Portfolio I Ltd in May ’23.
Currently threatening legal action but account remains UE pending production of requested CCA.

HSBC current account
Last full payment early 2018, and defaulted in February 2019.
Payments to StepChange stopped in March ’20.
Account sold to Lowell Portfolio I Ltd in May ’23, periodic ‘chasing’ letters received.
Currently UE pending production of the requested CCA.


All the defaults are now more than five years old, and while they’re showing on a credit report they’re not highlighted in the summary. We are two-thirds of the way through the six-year UE journey. How time still flies, etc.

From reading other diaries I’d expect much the same for a year or so, until SB comes into view on the horizon and the parasites try one last roll of the dice. We’ll see.

Keep on keepin' on...

Surely if they have either failed in court or admitted it is UE they should keep quiet.

gangi þér vel

[Sparkles]

Thanks for the update, it's good to see how others have been getting on. Three years ago I was struggling to pay everything and it would never have occurred to me that debts could be unenforcable. I have a debt with PRA that's unenforceable, they sent me a letter with the usual unenforceable but may change, but rather amusingly they had enclosed a letter marked internal only from BarclayCard to PRA saying that the historic terms were no longer available.

[Night Monkey]

Night Monkey's Fourth Annual Report

We're now coming up to four years since stopping all payments on five alleged debts so as is now traditional, and again primarily for my benefit, a summary of where each account is in a single post.

MBNA
Last full payment early 2018, defaulted October 2018
Payments to StepChange stopped in March ’20.
Standard letters and texts continue, all ignored.
Current owner - PRA Group UK Portfolios Ltd.
Last update was an internal transfer of ownership.
Current status UE since 'varied T&Cs are unavailable.'

Barclaycard
Last full payment early 2018, and defaulted in August 2018.
Payments to StepChange stopped in March ’20.
Current owner - PRA Group UK Portfolios Ltd.
Current status UE due to failed legal action by PRA.

Santander
Last full payment early 2018, not appearing on credit reports for some reason.
Payments to StepChange stopped in March ’20.
Current owner - Santander
The last contact was from drydensfairfax was in February '21. Since then statements and a transfer to ‘Financial Support’, together with a random refund (to the account) of £12.
Current status UE since a CCA was supplied but it’s a random one not specific to me, with no signature.

HSBC credit card
Last full payment early 2018, and defaulted in October 2018.
Payments to StepChange stopped in March ’20.
Account sold to Lowell Portfolio I Ltd in May ’23.
Currently threatening legal action but account remains UE pending production of requested CCA.

HSBC current account
Last full payment early 2018, and defaulted in February 2019.
Payments to StepChange stopped in March ’20.
Account sold to Lowell Portfolio I Ltd in May ’23, periodic ‘chasing’ letters received.
Currently UE pending production of the requested CCA.


All the defaults are now more than five years old, and while they’re showing on a credit report they’re not highlighted in the summary. We are two-thirds of the way through the six-year UE journey. How time still flies, etc.

From reading other diaries I’d expect much the same for a year or so, until SB comes into view on the horizon and the parasites try one last roll of the dice. We’ll see.

Keep on keepin' on...

[Night Monkey]

Like myself previously with another account, and other posters, I've received a letter confirming the transfer of an MBNA account from PRA Group (UK) Ltd. to PRA Group UK Portfolios Ltd. Again reiterates that the account is currently classed as unenforceable.

Looks like some PRA housekeeping is happening.

[Sparkles]

Two emails from PRA regarding the Barclaycard and MBNA accounts telling me that "PRA Group (UK) Limited recently transferred your account to PRA Group UK Portfolios Ltd."

Does anyone know if this is PRA just parking them, or them gearing up for further action? I suspect the former since one was the subject of failed court action and the other they have admitted to being UE.

Either way, I will not be following the link to FAQs.

I had an email saying that recently too, they admitted that the account in question was unenforcable some time ago.

[Pat]

Well, I’ve ploughed through the ~2000 pages that HSBC sent me (~1100 of them statements) and can’t find anything that looks like an agreement or Terms & Conditions relating to the credit card, which is what they’re chasing me for now. A few interesting snippets came to light though, one of which was a consolidation loan paid off around 10 years ago that I’d completely forgotten about. In addition to what might be considered ‘valid’ profits I did find summaries of interest and punitive fees charged between 2015 and 2018, when I was having the most trouble. These totalled - wait for it - very nearly £4500. In one year alone I was hit with £800 of unauthorised overdraft charges in addition to the interest. I can’t claim that the overdrafts were authorised but £25 per day when I was clearly struggling does smack of sticking the boot in and does temper any guilt I might be feeling for not managing to keep up the payments.

I also found a list of payments via StepChange which lists the amounts as written off in April 2023, coinciding with the sale to Lowell’s. One of them includes a ~£400 payment ‘Bank Giro Manually Posted’ which definitely didn’t come from me. I initially thought that this might be from Lowell but it’s dated 2021 - does anybody know what this might be?

I've drafted a CCA request, most likely I'll send it on Friday via recorded delivery.

I know historically some banks did not consider an agreement to be personal data although if it has your name and address on it I would disagree but hey ho.

SAR paperwork can be so hard to read. I once had an argument with HBOS when they sent me a statement with a 0 balance. I said- see there is nothing owing and they tried to tell me it was an accounting thing - anyway another 700 I didn't pay them :-)

[Roger]

I also found a list of payments via StepChange which lists the amounts as written off in April 2023, coinciding with the sale to Lowell’s. One of them includes a ~£400 payment ‘Bank Giro Manually Posted’ which definitely didn’t come from me. I initially thought that this might be from Lowell but it’s dated 2021 - does anybody know what this might be?

Possibly HSBC for their failure re accounts?

[Night Monkey]

Well, I’ve ploughed through the ~2000 pages that HSBC sent me (~1100 of them statements) and can’t find anything that looks like an agreement or Terms & Conditions relating to the credit card, which is what they’re chasing me for now. A few interesting snippets came to light though, one of which was a consolidation loan paid off around 10 years ago that I’d completely forgotten about. In addition to what might be considered ‘valid’ profits I did find summaries of interest and punitive fees charged between 2015 and 2018, when I was having the most trouble. These totalled - wait for it - very nearly £4500. In one year alone I was hit with £800 of unauthorised overdraft charges in addition to the interest. I can’t claim that the overdrafts were authorised but £25 per day when I was clearly struggling does smack of sticking the boot in and does temper any guilt I might be feeling for not managing to keep up the payments.

I also found a list of payments via StepChange which lists the amounts as written off in April 2023, coinciding with the sale to Lowell’s. One of them includes a ~£400 payment ‘Bank Giro Manually Posted’ which definitely didn’t come from me. I initially thought that this might be from Lowell but it’s dated 2021 - does anybody know what this might be?

I've drafted a CCA request, most likely I'll send it on Friday via recorded delivery.

[Night Monkey]

There should be something in the bundle which indicates approximately when the account was taken out, eg copy statements.

In the 'Customer Data Utility Report' there is a credit card account opening date of September 2002, followed by several closure/openings related to lost & stolen cards & the like.

[Night Monkey]

Thanks Pat. Despite my previous experience with PRA I'm minded to send a CCA request to Lowell's, I'm sure I can find a template or earlier request somewhere. This will hopefully head them off at the pass but I'll leave it for a couple of days just to be sure in my own mind I'm not rushing into anything.

[Pat]

If a letter of claim were to arrive for a debt that you really wanted to keep out of court then as well as asking for the above documents sending a CCA request may be in order. Sadly of course now, they can reconstitute an accurate version of a DN but they would need to show records that say when and how it was sent which the OC may or mayn't provide to them.