Night Monkey's diary

[Night Monkey]

...and you're back. Welcome home guys, you were missed.

Diary updates incoming...

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

should the worst happen wouldn't they in some way pass on to our estate for our daughters to deal with? Certainly when my parents died we were told to total up any debts and pay them, and split what was left.

I can easily see a situation where they are presented with bills for the full amount from any creditors, enforceable or otherwise, and choose to write a cheque rather than argue about it.

Apologies if the above seems overly morbid, we've just written our wills and have been forced to contemplate the unthinkable

You're not being morbid at all, you're being pragmatic. So I will be too.

If a debt is unenforceable when you're alive, it will be unenforceable when you're no longer alive. Either it is or it isn't.

My suggestion is you establish which debts are unenforceable and staple the information to your Will so whoever is dealing with your affairs will be armed with the information when the time comes.

If you haven't paid or acknowledged the debts for six years before you die then they will become Statute Barred whether they're enforceable or not. If you make offers to settle you will restart the Statute Barred clock.

I should also say there are more ways a debt can be unenforceable than just the credit agreement. So if you've been told your MBNA credit agreement is enforceable that doesn't mean that they or PRA have complied with all their other statutory duties.

I agree that all too often a solicitor will simply pay bills of the deceased without question possibly because they don't have the knowledge of consumer credit which is a specialist area of law.

Di

[Roger]

I accept this, but should the worst happen wouldn't they in some way pass on to our estate for our daughters to deal with? Certainly when my parents died we were told to total up any debts and pay them, and split what was left.
I can easily see a situation where they are presented with bills for the full amount from any creditors, enforceable or otherwise, and choose to write a cheque rather than argue about it.
Apologies if the above seems overly morbid, we've just written our wills and have been forced to contemplate the unthinkable

Without being morbid and indeed as a Home Owner the best way to take control of Debt is to follow the AAD Diary format.

Your best legacy will be evidence of six years Statute Barred and or Legally Unenforcable Debt!

Every communication with these DBA's / Banks has the potential to restart the Statute Barred Clock all over again.
You are a long way away from a CCJ and even if a claim is issued terms can still be negotiated depending upon the strength or otherwise of you and or your claimants Case.

Many have BLAGGED their way to Statute Barred!

The First discipline is after sending a S.77/78 CCA (plus £1) is SILENCE! Start Saving instead of paying see what or otherwise you receive and put details up here into your Diary entries!

Its a mindset change coupled with a savy understanding of how to best protect your interests and your legacy!

[Night Monkey]

the debt is your's not your daughters.

I accept this, but should the worst happen wouldn't they in some way pass on to our estate for our daughters to deal with? Certainly when my parents died we were told to total up any debts and pay them, and split what was left.

I can easily see a situation where they are presented with bills for the full amount from any creditors, enforceable or otherwise, and choose to write a cheque rather than argue about it.

Apologies if the above seems overly morbid, we've just written our wills and have been forced to contemplate the unthinkable

[Night Monkey]

Do you own a property which has a mortgage so visible on your CRA file?

We do own a mortgaged property, which is now about 70% owned after some struggle so I wouldn't like to muddy those waters.

You say your CCA Requests have been "ignored" ...<snip>... could they be attempting to source or reconstitute the necessary documentation?

Of the five debts, MBNA is enforceable, Santander unenforceable with Barclaycard and the two HSBC returning the POs without comment or reference to the CCA requests. Whether anybody is still looking for them a year on, who can say?

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

if I do decide to let things continue I want it to be an informed decision.

It takes two to make a decision when it comes to settlements.

You've decided you want to settle your (currently) unenforceable debts, but that's meaningless if the debt owners don't want to accept your offers.

Do you own a property which has a mortgage so visible on your CRA file? Some debt owners would rather aim for a CCJ and then a Charging Order in order to turn an unsecured debt into a secured debt where they hope to get 100% of the amount eventually.

I believe negotiation is best done from a position of strength so you need to be certain you've reached the end of the line in your research and the facts of the situation won't or can't change.

You say your CCA Requests have been "ignored" . Do you mean absolutely no reply at all, or could they be attempting to source or reconstitute the necessary documentation?

Di

[nightwatch]

every person deals with debt in there own way, we cannot say don't pay it as it is not up to us to take that decision for you.
What I will say is that we will understand that decision, even if, sometimes we don't agree with it.

The choice has to be yours.

[Night Monkey]

Thanks for the reply, NW.

It can be a mine field.

Exactly why I started the debate, I'm aware that I would potentially be treading on very thin ice. But if I do decide to let things continue I want it to be an informed decision.

gives me a warm glow to know that they still think of me x

Surprising the change of feelings that come with taking control back, isn't it?

[nightwatch]

one more point, the debt is your's not your daughters.

[nightwatch]

While I realise that you would like to clear the deck's, as the saying goes, the longer you sit tight the better it is for negotiations. As has been said before, it's like a game of poker, never show your hand too soon, if you offer too soon they smell money and will try for more.

you also need for the one's with the original creditor to be sold on, then wait again before jumping in. make sure the debt is enforceable, why pay out your much needed money to someone who is not leagaly entitled to claim it.
If I was to turn up at your house and say I had won one of your debt's in a card game, I want you to pay me £6000 by thursday night, I am sure you would tell me to take a running jump.

I take it all defaults were 2018 and placed on Credit File, so the defaults will be on till 2024.
If you pay a reduced settlement, then most of the companys will report it as that with the CRA, plus you need to make sure the rest of the debt is not going to be sold on to be chased by anyone else, or even the same company but another department.

It can be a mine field.

I started my journey in 2011/12, I still have some companys contact me to see if I would like to pay them any money, gives me a warm glow to know that they still think of me x

[Night Monkey]

I realise that this may go against the grain, but I would like to discuss the possibility of reaching F&F with creditors. I'd like to explore ways of getting this situation done & dusted rather than have it hanging around for the next 6+ years, and I'm also getting towards an age where the worst might happen and if it did I wouldn't want my daughters having to deal with our ageing debt on top of everything else. While I accept that if it's unenforceable for me it's also unenforceable for them, it would be one more thing for them to worry about and they may well not have the resolve to stand firm if there's a quicker, easier and less scary way out.

A brief summary of the situation, in round numbers:

MBNA now with PRA Group (UK) Ltd., £9325 originally, paid £625 via SC, £8700 outstanding.
Deemed enforceable by Niddy

Barclaycard now with PRA Group (UK) Ltd, £7300 originally, paid £600 via SC, £6700 outstanding
Returned £1 PO and ignored request for CCA

Santander now with Wescot Credit Services, £6905 originally, paid £475 via SC, £6400 outstanding
Deemed unenforceable by Niddy

HSBC, now with HSBC recovery department, £6500 originally, paid £400 via SC, £6100 outstanding
Returned £1 PO and ignored request for CCA

HSBC, now with HSBC recovery department, £3850 originally, paid £400 via SC, £3450 outstanding
Returned £1 PO and ignored request for CCA

We have the above five debts, initially managed via a DMP with StepChange but self-managed for 5 months. We've put away the monthly payments that would have gone to SC which has now built up to ~£1500. I addition, if things go according to plan, I am due compensation from the accident which forced us to face our tower of debt and we are also fortunate enough to have recently had a relatively substantial increase in income which has allowed us to have savings for the first time in forever and also embark on some home improvements.

Obviously I wouldn't want to rattle the cages of the holders of our debt and flag that our circumstances have improved, or indeed reset the statute barred clock. I'll be treading carefully if at all, and accept that different people have different situations, opinions and preferences. At the moment I'm looking for a discussion of possible ways forward and realise that the best option may be to do nothing.

Happy to take this forward elsewhere on the site if it's deemed preferable but in the meantime, who'd like to get the ball rolling?

[Night Monkey]

Good point, I bet they're all looking to minimize cost & contact in these strange times.

[nightwatch]

They could be using a printing service to save money.
put all name's and info into a computer, press button A, printed on mass, button B, sealed and ready to go, button C, large box filled and ready for the post.

[Night Monkey]

Something which looked like a payslip turned up, opened by removing the perforated edges around the 'envelope'. It turned out to be a 'reminder' from Wescot inviting us to call their helpline so that one of their specialist agents can assist.

Ignored and filed.

Is this a new tactic to make sure that we open letters from them?

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

And the StepChange GDPR finally drops through the door . . .

The penultimate page lists creditors and account numbers, showing BarclayCard, HSBS Gold Visa, HSBC Bank Ltd., MBNA Ltd. and Santander Credit Card moving to HSBC Repayment Services (twice), PRA Group (UK) Ltd. (twice) and Wescot Credit Services

I'm unsure if any of this helps, or what to look for specifically, but in the meantime it's filed away.

It may not seem obviously helpful at this moment in time, but it may be in the long run especially if there are any potential assignment issues and dates etc.

Di