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**The Tech Clerk** · 7 July 2019, 18:54

Welcome keep us updated on your diaries

**The Tech Clerk** · 7 July 2019, 18:55

wescot are only debt collectors not owners, so no CCA to them only the originator/owner, all correspondence Recorded Delivery and copy kept on file, No E-Mails??

**NeenyT** · 7 July 2019, 19:02

Thank you for responding so quickly. Knew I would manage to muck something up haha. This is what happens when I try to sort things out myself

.

I figured I'd try via email first as it means I still have documented evidence of dates/requests etc. I did not realise Wescot were just debt collectors so I will send a letter to Santander instead. Thank you for that insight.

Need to set myself a reminder to get 2 x £1 postal orders for sending to Santander and to Barclaycard for the single remaining debt with them.

**Joanna Connolly Solicitors** · 7 July 2019, 19:12

Hello

I'll respond to your thread tomorrow but I immediately notice that you have been in an IVA (did it fail or did you reach the finishing line?) and I see PRA are involved.

Expect questions from me before I make any suggestions as to your next steps.

I look forward to helping you.

Di

**NeenyT** · 7 July 2019, 20:03

Good evening Diana, thank you for also responding. Ask anything, I will happily oblige

. It's a very long story but I'll try to condense.

It was at the 2 year anniversary of my IVA when I realised I had been royally conned by Step Change. They did advise me of fees etc, but never once mentioned that I could pay their fees ON TOP of what I owed the creditors. In the 2 years I was in the IVA I lost over £4.5k and if I had stayed in the IVA for the full 5 years, I was on course to be paying in excess of £10k more than I actually owed in the first place. I decided to cut my losses and run. (I went to the Insolvency Practitioner Association to complain and even sent them emails of me asking outright "will I ever pay more into the IVA than I owe?" plus a recorded phone call again with me asking would I ever pay in more than I owe and the answer was both times, a resounding NO. Bloomin thieving pigs. IPA closed my case stating a lack of evidence, said that I was advised of fees. Yes, yes I was, but I was not advised of the fact they'd be charging fees on top of my debts.

I had contacted my creditors before cancelling my IVA just to check that it was possible for me to pay directly instead and explained what had gone on. They all seemed sympathetic to my plight, not quite sympathetic enough to shoulder some of that loss, mind.

Anyways, yes I have read through some of your PRA battles with great interest and it's what spurred me on to post here today. PRA took on 4 of the 5 Barclaycard debts that I had. (The 4 cards I received when I only successfully completed one application).

I am interested to hear anyone's thoughts on this as in theory, I actually owe them nothing at all for those 4 cards. The only application that completed was the fifth attempt, which was subsequently rejected. I'm probably way off the mark here, I cannot claim to know anything about the law in general OR consumer law. It's a bit of a unique case. I've not seen any other posts that have mentioned this kind of scenario.

**NeenyT** · 8 July 2019, 09:01

Just received this from PRA after I asked them to prove what I supposedly owe them:

Hi xxxxxx

As advised previously, we are not obliged to give out the information you are requesting as it is business sensitive information.

We have been in touch with Barclays to request a copy of agreement for each of your accounts.

We will be in touch with you once we have received an update.

The payment arrangements for your accounts remain in place - can you please confirm if you are looking to cancel these for the time being?

**Warwick65** · 8 July 2019, 13:36

Can I asked what exactly you had requested ? I suspect you had asked for things such as the deed of assignment. Did that advice come from another forum?

As has been pointed out I think, a CCA Request must be sent by post (preferably, in my opinion, by signed for mail) and must include the statutory fee of £1 . By doing this you make the debt legally unenforceable until they comply with your request (well once the 12+2 days after posting has elapsed) .

**NeenyT** · 8 July 2019, 14:24

Hi there,

PRA said they were happy to get the cca info from Barclaycard but that they did not keep the files themselves. I have the email as proof of request.

I asked them to prove what I owed THEM not Barclaycard. They won’t provide this information. Why should I pay when they wont prove what I owe?

**Warwick65** · 8 July 2019, 14:41

So when you asked the for proof, did you just say can your prove I owe you any money or did you ask them for specific documents?

It's great they are seeking documents from barclaycard, lets hope they never arrive but what I was saying was, by sending a CCA Request in the proper format with the £1 fee you actually have protection in law should PRA ever decide to issue a claim against you. Just saying I asked them for the CCA is not enough, being able to evidence that you did in the correct way helps lots.

This is what the consumer credit act says about S78

78Duty to give information to debtor under running-account credit agreement.
(1)The creditor under a regulated agreement for running-account credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of [F1£1], shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer,—

(a)the state of the account, and

(b)the amount, if any currently payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor, and

(c)the amounts and due dates of any payments which, if the debtor does not draw further on the account, will later become payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor.

and the S78(6) says this

(6)If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—

(a)he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement;F4. . .

I am sure Di will be able to help you in a more detailed way but I am also sure she will ask you lots of questions

**Joanna Connolly Solicitors** · 8 July 2019, 15:44

Originally posted by NeenyT View Post

Good evening Diana, thank you for also responding. Ask anything, I will happily oblige

. . . I have read through some of your PRA battles with great interest and it's what spurred me on to post here today. PRA took on 4 of the 5 Barclaycard debts that I had. (The 4 cards I received when I only successfully completed one application).

I am interested to hear anyone's thoughts on this as in theory, I actually owe them nothing at all for those 4 cards. The only application that completed was the fifth attempt, which was subsequently rejected.

My first suggestion is to send a Subject Access Request to Barclaycard so you can see exactly what when on with those five applications.

You say you received four cards through the post relating to the four applications which you believed were unsuccessful, but no card for the one you believed was successful - instead you received a letter saying that application had been rejected and I'm guessing it didn't say why.

Did you ever receive anything to sign for those four accounts and/or did Barclaycard send you any Ts & Cs with the cards or would you have been expected to tick a box on the screen to say that you'd read them online?

Was there PPI on any of the accounts?

Did you receive four separate Default Notices for the four accounts?

It is an unusual situation because you'd think that each application would have been subject to credit scoring where multiple applications for credit should have flagged up. Perhaps that's why the fifth attempt failed.

See what data Barclaycard hold on file then you'll know what to expect from PRA, although they may not have access to the same information as you.

Whether PRA can prove they own the debt is a separate issue.

You need to send those four s78 CCA Requests again with the £1 statutory fee since an email isn't sufficient to protect your legal position (as Warwick has said).

Di

**NeenyT** · 8 July 2019, 17:53

Thank you for your assistance, all. I'll try to respond in order of questions received. Just got home from work so head fried, please excuse me...

Warwick65 what I asked PRA: after sending the emailed CCA request, I then sent another email asking if they could prove to me what I owed them (them as in PRA, not Barclaycard). How they translated that email, I don't know, just stated they were under no obligation to tell me (we all know they buy debts at a very low cost, they just won't ever admit that). I had no idea there were specific documents I could request for that. Please note in the emailed reply I received they asked if I intended to keep paying, does that mean I am under no obligation to?

Diana Mayhew , I did raise the system error with Bcard in a complaint. Their final response provided one single sentence about that, saying as it was so long ago, they can't comment on what went wrong. Not particularly helpful and still no apology or any acknowledgement of their system issues being at least partly responsible for my debt issues. I have now raised with Ombudsman about that but it is still early days, they are awaiting a response from Bcard. I won't hold my breath, they're all in each others' bloomin pockets.

I would have "e-signed" the applications as was all done online and I did agree to the terms, ONCE, but how was I to know the first 4 attempts actually worked when I was clearly advised that they did not, hence me keep trying? How would this ever be proved? I did not think to take screenshots back in 2013 as I just assumed there was a system error, I simply kept trying to apply for the credit card deal I wanted.

I honestly do not remember if I was sent terms for each card, I've been to sleep since then and have a shocking memory due to years of poorly controlled mental health. I do know though, that I never physically "signed" anything. The 4 offending cards were sent to me within days of each other (as you can see by the start dates within the start of this diary, all the ones now with PRA), the last letter I got was a few days after the last 2 cards appeared, I assume, for the fifth application that did actually complete but was just a letter of rejection (presumably because they already sent me 4). The fact that 4 were sent to me anyway is an issue as surely they should have completed relevant checks etc. Who on earth would apply for 5 credit cards with the same company, on the same day? Come on...

Sadly I do not remember receiving any default notices either, although I may well have done. What I never knew, until I had instructed the Insolvency Practitioner to act on my behalf with the IVA is that Bcard passed those 4 debts on to PRA. I only found out as it was on my IVA paperwork (listed as something weird like IVA Watch or something like that). I only knew who to contact after the IVA because I made Step Change tell me who owned what debts. I then Googled the contact details myself. I know, silly me, rookie error admitting liability. I just wanted it gone!

No PPI, already tried that, and Plevin.

I do get that my case is incredibly unique, hence me getting absolutely NOWHERE with all my complaints, people keep telling me they could not help and to try such & such a body or such & such a company. I literally tried everything. I emailed my own MP who was worse than useless to be honest, the Insolvency Practitioner Association, Trading Standards, Financial Conduct Authority. This is why it appears that I have left things a long time to get sorted, but sadly all these things take time and I had to wait for final responses before going on to try the next advice given etc.

I am so grateful I stumbled across this forum and I really appreciate all help that can be offered, but I am not sure even you guys can help now, I'm losing the will to live with it all, it's just dragged on so long now and I am physically tired, it consumes my every thought, day & night. I keep getting told my case is unique and that nothing like this has ever cropped up before. If you think it'll help, I'll do all the above, if not, I'm not giving those swines even more of my hard earned money than they already have received. IN PRA's case, they have received thousands from me so I am convinced I would have already more than paid off what they originally paid for the debt.

For a SAR, do I need to send copy of any ID, drivers licence/passport etc? I've never sent a SAR before.

I refer back to the start of this post too regarding PRA asking me if I would be continuing payments. Should I continue? Make nominal payments? Or just keep the money aside for now and hope they can't produce?

Sorry for the epic rant. Trying to get as much info in here as I can x

**Warwick65** · 8 July 2019, 18:14

Hi
That explains a lot. I remember getting a letter from Lowell refusing to supply documents I hadn't asked for. I think they were so used to getting random letters from a certain mad forum.

As for the rest I really would follow Di's advice

**NeenyT** · 8 July 2019, 18:25

I just asked them for proof, how they choose to provide that proof is up to them. I just begrudge paying thousands to them when I know they only paid hundreds, at the most.

I have just checked my credit file, Should have done this ages ago to be fair. It shows that at the time I applied for said Bcard, I already had 4 active credit cards, one of which, you guessed it, was a Bcard (although obtained through International Hotel Group chain (IHG).

**NeenyT** · 8 July 2019, 18:27

If there is something official I can ask of them in the + membership, I am more than willing to subscribe, I just need to be pointed in the right direction. I don't know how to request a SAR or if I need to provide proof of who I am etc.

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