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Neenys UE Diary

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  • Neenys UE Diary

    Hi all, posted on a blog elsewhere originally and have been directed to this page. Oh how I wish I had stumbled across this site far sooner...

    Just a wee bit of a background into my circumstances (it looks like I was a tad reckless but I don't think I can be to blame for it all...)

    In June 2013 I applied for A (yes, singular) Barclaycard. My first attempt flagged up with a system error, stating application had not completed and to try again later. Well I did try again later, many times. On my fifth attempt, the application finally completed. Little did I know at the time that my first 4 attempts HAD actually gone through. A few days later 4 credit cards drop through my door with a letter for the fifth application stating that one had been rejected.

    At the time I was weak, suffering from poor mental health and I have to say that the 4 cards dropping through my door was just far too much temptation for me to ignore at the time. In hindsight, I should have sent 3 of them back, but I didn't, hence the state I got myself into with debt. Listed below is all the credit cards I had, and balance to date. I know this sounds very cheeky indeed, but as I only applied for ONE Barclaycard and therefore only agreed to ONE credit agreement, can I argue this with them? I have only just found out about the CCA thing so only sent them off to PRA & Wescot on Thursday this week 04.07.2019.

    Type of account: Santander Credit Card
    Date commenced: 25.05.2010
    Approx balance: £1240
    Date last paid: Last Payment 21.06.2019
    Are you on arrangement or not paying: Was in IVA with Step Change between Aug 2016 to Oct 2018, now paying via Wescot
    Status Defaulted: 31.08.2016
    Account owner: Wescot
    04/07/2019 - SAR sent
    13/07/2019 - Letter received from Wescot acknowledging receipt of CCA request, stating they have requested the information from Barclaycard (original debt owner).

    Type of account: Barclaycard Credit Card (via IHG chain, International Hotel Group)
    Date commenced: 30.04.2012
    Approx balance: £2190
    Date last paid: Last Payment 21.06.2019
    Are you on arrangement or not paying: Was in IVA with Step Change between Aug 2016 to Oct 2018, now paying direct
    Status Defaulted: 18.07.2016
    Account owner: Barclaycard
    09/07/2019 - SAR request sent to Barclaycard
    11/07/2019 - Letter received from Barclaycard acknowledging receipt of SAR request, stating they will provide requested information within 90 days. They may call me for verification purposes.

    Type of account: Barclaycard Credit Card
    Date commenced: 27.06.2013
    Approx balance: £280
    Date last paid: Last Payment 21.06.2019
    Are you on arrangement or not paying: Was in IVA with Step Change between Aug 2016 to Oct 2018, now paying via PRA
    Status Defaulted: 18.07.2016
    Account owner: PRA
    04/07/2019 - CCA request sent via email
    05/07/2019 - Response received from PRA stating they do not keep these agreements so will go to Barclaycard to get them.

    Type of account: Barclaycard Credit Card
    Date commenced: 27.06.2013
    Approx balance: £841
    Date last paid: Last Payment 21.06.2019
    Are you on arrangement or not paying: Was in IVA with Step Change between Aug 2016 to Oct 2018, now paying via PRA
    Status Defaulted: 18.07.2016
    Account owner: PRA
    04/07/2019 - CCA request sent via email
    05/07/2019 - Response received from PRA stating they do not keep these agreements so will go to Barclaycard to get them.

    Type of account: Barclaycard Credit Card
    Date commenced: 24.06.2013
    Approx balance: £1730
    Date last paid: Last Payment 21.06.2019
    Are you on arrangement or not paying: Was in IVA with Step Change between Aug 2016 to Oct 2018, now paying via PRA
    Status Defaulted: 18.07.2016
    Account owner: PRA
    04/07/2019 - CCA request sent via email
    05/07/2019 - Response received from PRA stating they do not keep these agreements so will go to Barclaycard to get them.
    15/07/2019 - Response Received with only copy statements

    Type of account: Barclaycard Credit Card
    Date commenced: 24.06.2013
    Approx balance: £1900
    Date last paid: Last Payment 21.06.2019
    Are you on arrangement or not paying: Was in IVA with Step Change between Aug 2016 to Oct 2018, now paying via PRA
    Status Defaulted: 18.07.2016
    Account owner: PRA
    04/07/2019 - CCA request sent via email
    05/07/2019 - Response received from PRA stating they do not keep these agreements so will go to Barclaycard to get them.
    15/07/2019 - Response Received with only copy statements

    As a footnote, I emailed PRA to request the CCA and they were more than happy for me to request it this way, no payment requested from them for the information. I emailed Wescot too but have had no response from them as yet. Will update this diary as & when any information comes in. If Wescot requests I contact them via mail with £1 fee, I shall do so...
    Last edited by NeenyT; 15th July 2019, 14:07.

  • #2
    Welcome keep us updated on your diaries
    I'm an official AAD Moderator and also a volunteer, here to help make the forum run smoothly. Any views or opinions are mine and not the official line of AAD. Similarly, any advice I have offered you is done so on an informal basis, without prejudice or liability. If in doubt seek advice from a qualified insured professional - Find a Solicitor or go to the National Probono Centre.

    If you spot an abusive or libellous post then please report it by Clicking Here. If you need to contact me, for instance if I've issued you a warning, moved, edited or deleted your post, please send me a message by clicking my username.

    Comment


    • #3
      wescot are only debt collectors not owners, so no CCA to them only the originator/owner, all correspondence Recorded Delivery and copy kept on file, No E-Mails??
      I'm an official AAD Moderator and also a volunteer, here to help make the forum run smoothly. Any views or opinions are mine and not the official line of AAD. Similarly, any advice I have offered you is done so on an informal basis, without prejudice or liability. If in doubt seek advice from a qualified insured professional - Find a Solicitor or go to the National Probono Centre.

      If you spot an abusive or libellous post then please report it by Clicking Here. If you need to contact me, for instance if I've issued you a warning, moved, edited or deleted your post, please send me a message by clicking my username.

      Comment


      • #4
        Thank you for responding so quickly. Knew I would manage to muck something up haha. This is what happens when I try to sort things out myself .

        I figured I'd try via email first as it means I still have documented evidence of dates/requests etc. I did not realise Wescot were just debt collectors so I will send a letter to Santander instead. Thank you for that insight.

        Need to set myself a reminder to get 2 x £1 postal orders for sending to Santander and to Barclaycard for the single remaining debt with them.

        Comment


        • #5
          Hello

          I'll respond to your thread tomorrow but I immediately notice that you have been in an IVA (did it fail or did you reach the finishing line?) and I see PRA are involved.

          Expect questions from me before I make any suggestions as to your next steps.

          I look forward to helping you.

          Di
          Legal Disclaimer

          I am a Litigation Executive at
          Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specialises in consumer credit. If you need to contact me you can send a message by clicking on my username or by emailing me at di@joannaconnollysolicitors.co.uk or by telephoning 0330 053 9340. Our initial advice is always free.

          Any posts I make on the AAD Consumer Forum are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide on the forum is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

          Comment


          • #6
            Good evening Diana, thank you for also responding. Ask anything, I will happily oblige . It's a very long story but I'll try to condense.

            It was at the 2 year anniversary of my IVA when I realised I had been royally conned by Step Change. They did advise me of fees etc, but never once mentioned that I could pay their fees ON TOP of what I owed the creditors. In the 2 years I was in the IVA I lost over £4.5k and if I had stayed in the IVA for the full 5 years, I was on course to be paying in excess of £10k more than I actually owed in the first place. I decided to cut my losses and run. (I went to the Insolvency Practitioner Association to complain and even sent them emails of me asking outright "will I ever pay more into the IVA than I owe?" plus a recorded phone call again with me asking would I ever pay in more than I owe and the answer was both times, a resounding NO. Bloomin thieving pigs. IPA closed my case stating a lack of evidence, said that I was advised of fees. Yes, yes I was, but I was not advised of the fact they'd be charging fees on top of my debts.

            I had contacted my creditors before cancelling my IVA just to check that it was possible for me to pay directly instead and explained what had gone on. They all seemed sympathetic to my plight, not quite sympathetic enough to shoulder some of that loss, mind.

            Anyways, yes I have read through some of your PRA battles with great interest and it's what spurred me on to post here today. PRA took on 4 of the 5 Barclaycard debts that I had. (The 4 cards I received when I only successfully completed one application).

            I am interested to hear anyone's thoughts on this as in theory, I actually owe them nothing at all for those 4 cards. The only application that completed was the fifth attempt, which was subsequently rejected. I'm probably way off the mark here, I cannot claim to know anything about the law in general OR consumer law. It's a bit of a unique case. I've not seen any other posts that have mentioned this kind of scenario.

            Comment


            • #7
              Just received this from PRA after I asked them to prove what I supposedly owe them:

              Hi xxxxxx

              As advised previously, we are not obliged to give out the information you are requesting as it is business sensitive information.

              We have been in touch with Barclays to request a copy of agreement for each of your accounts.

              We will be in touch with you once we have received an update.

              The payment arrangements for your accounts remain in place - can you please confirm if you are looking to cancel these for the time being?
              Last edited by Diana Mayhew; 8th July 2019, 16:19. Reason: removed your name to protect your identity

              Comment


              • #8
                Can I asked what exactly you had requested ? I suspect you had asked for things such as the deed of assignment. Did that advice come from another forum?


                As has been pointed out I think, a CCA Request must be sent by post (preferably, in my opinion, by signed for mail) and must include the statutory fee of £1 . By doing this you make the debt legally unenforceable until they comply with your request (well once the 12+2 days after posting has elapsed) .

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hi there,

                  PRA said they were happy to get the cca info from Barclaycard but that they did not keep the files themselves. I have the email as proof of request.

                  I asked them to prove what I owed THEM not Barclaycard. They won’t provide this information. Why should I pay when they wont prove what I owe?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    So when you asked the for proof, did you just say can your prove I owe you any money or did you ask them for specific documents?

                    It's great they are seeking documents from barclaycard, lets hope they never arrive but what I was saying was, by sending a CCA Request in the proper format with the £1 fee you actually have protection in law should PRA ever decide to issue a claim against you. Just saying I asked them for the CCA is not enough, being able to evidence that you did in the correct way helps lots.

                    This is what the consumer credit act says about S78

                    78Duty to give information to debtor under running-account credit agreement.
                    (1)The creditor under a regulated agreement for running-account credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of [F1£1], shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer,—

                    (a)the state of the account, and

                    (b)the amount, if any currently payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor, and

                    (c)the amounts and due dates of any payments which, if the debtor does not draw further on the account, will later become payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor.
                    and the S78(6) says this

                    (6)If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—

                    (a)he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement;F4. . .
                    I am sure Di will be able to help you in a more detailed way but I am also sure she will ask you lots of questions

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by NeenyT View Post
                      Good evening Diana, thank you for also responding. Ask anything, I will happily oblige

                      . . . I have read through some of your PRA battles with great interest and it's what spurred me on to post here today. PRA took on 4 of the 5 Barclaycard debts that I had. (The 4 cards I received when I only successfully completed one application).

                      I am interested to hear anyone's thoughts on this as in theory, I actually owe them nothing at all for those 4 cards. The only application that completed was the fifth attempt, which was subsequently rejected.

                      My first suggestion is to send a Subject Access Request to Barclaycard so you can see exactly what when on with those five applications.

                      You say you received four cards through the post relating to the four applications which you believed were unsuccessful, but no card for the one you believed was successful - instead you received a letter saying that application had been rejected and I'm guessing it didn't say why.

                      Did you ever receive anything to sign for those four accounts and/or did Barclaycard send you any Ts & Cs with the cards or would you have been expected to tick a box on the screen to say that you'd read them online?

                      Was there PPI on any of the accounts?

                      Did you receive four separate Default Notices for the four accounts?

                      It is an unusual situation because you'd think that each application would have been subject to credit scoring where multiple applications for credit should have flagged up. Perhaps that's why the fifth attempt failed.

                      See what data Barclaycard hold on file then you'll know what to expect from PRA, although they may not have access to the same information as you.

                      Whether PRA can prove they own the debt is a separate issue.

                      You need to send those four s78 CCA Requests again with the £1 statutory fee since an email isn't sufficient to protect your legal position (as Warwick has said).

                      Di





                      Legal Disclaimer

                      I am a Litigation Executive at
                      Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specialises in consumer credit. If you need to contact me you can send a message by clicking on my username or by emailing me at di@joannaconnollysolicitors.co.uk or by telephoning 0330 053 9340. Our initial advice is always free.

                      Any posts I make on the AAD Consumer Forum are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide on the forum is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Thank you for your assistance, all. I'll try to respond in order of questions received. Just got home from work so head fried, please excuse me...

                        Warwick65 what I asked PRA: after sending the emailed CCA request, I then sent another email asking if they could prove to me what I owed them (them as in PRA, not Barclaycard). How they translated that email, I don't know, just stated they were under no obligation to tell me (we all know they buy debts at a very low cost, they just won't ever admit that). I had no idea there were specific documents I could request for that. Please note in the emailed reply I received they asked if I intended to keep paying, does that mean I am under no obligation to?


                        Diana Mayhew , I did raise the system error with Bcard in a complaint. Their final response provided one single sentence about that, saying as it was so long ago, they can't comment on what went wrong. Not particularly helpful and still no apology or any acknowledgement of their system issues being at least partly responsible for my debt issues. I have now raised with Ombudsman about that but it is still early days, they are awaiting a response from Bcard. I won't hold my breath, they're all in each others' bloomin pockets.

                        I would have "e-signed" the applications as was all done online and I did agree to the terms, ONCE, but how was I to know the first 4 attempts actually worked when I was clearly advised that they did not, hence me keep trying? How would this ever be proved? I did not think to take screenshots back in 2013 as I just assumed there was a system error, I simply kept trying to apply for the credit card deal I wanted.

                        I honestly do not remember if I was sent terms for each card, I've been to sleep since then and have a shocking memory due to years of poorly controlled mental health. I do know though, that I never physically "signed" anything. The 4 offending cards were sent to me within days of each other (as you can see by the start dates within the start of this diary, all the ones now with PRA), the last letter I got was a few days after the last 2 cards appeared, I assume, for the fifth application that did actually complete but was just a letter of rejection (presumably because they already sent me 4). The fact that 4 were sent to me anyway is an issue as surely they should have completed relevant checks etc. Who on earth would apply for 5 credit cards with the same company, on the same day? Come on...

                        Sadly I do not remember receiving any default notices either, although I may well have done. What I never knew, until I had instructed the Insolvency Practitioner to act on my behalf with the IVA is that Bcard passed those 4 debts on to PRA. I only found out as it was on my IVA paperwork (listed as something weird like IVA Watch or something like that). I only knew who to contact after the IVA because I made Step Change tell me who owned what debts. I then Googled the contact details myself. I know, silly me, rookie error admitting liability. I just wanted it gone!

                        No PPI, already tried that, and Plevin.

                        I do get that my case is incredibly unique, hence me getting absolutely NOWHERE with all my complaints, people keep telling me they could not help and to try such & such a body or such & such a company. I literally tried everything. I emailed my own MP who was worse than useless to be honest, the Insolvency Practitioner Association, Trading Standards, Financial Conduct Authority. This is why it appears that I have left things a long time to get sorted, but sadly all these things take time and I had to wait for final responses before going on to try the next advice given etc.

                        I am so grateful I stumbled across this forum and I really appreciate all help that can be offered, but I am not sure even you guys can help now, I'm losing the will to live with it all, it's just dragged on so long now and I am physically tired, it consumes my every thought, day & night. I keep getting told my case is unique and that nothing like this has ever cropped up before. If you think it'll help, I'll do all the above, if not, I'm not giving those swines even more of my hard earned money than they already have received. IN PRA's case, they have received thousands from me so I am convinced I would have already more than paid off what they originally paid for the debt.

                        For a SAR, do I need to send copy of any ID, drivers licence/passport etc? I've never sent a SAR before.

                        I refer back to the start of this post too regarding PRA asking me if I would be continuing payments. Should I continue? Make nominal payments? Or just keep the money aside for now and hope they can't produce?

                        Sorry for the epic rant. Trying to get as much info in here as I can x

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hi
                          That explains a lot. I remember getting a letter from Lowell refusing to supply documents I hadn't asked for. I think they were so used to getting random letters from a certain mad forum.

                          As for the rest I really would follow Di's advice

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I just asked them for proof, how they choose to provide that proof is up to them. I just begrudge paying thousands to them when I know they only paid hundreds, at the most.

                            I have just checked my credit file, Should have done this ages ago to be fair. It shows that at the time I applied for said Bcard, I already had 4 active credit cards, one of which, you guessed it, was a Bcard (although obtained through International Hotel Group chain (IHG).

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              If there is something official I can ask of them in the + membership, I am more than willing to subscribe, I just need to be pointed in the right direction. I don't know how to request a SAR or if I need to provide proof of who I am etc.

                              Comment

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