Dispensing with the "MORALITY" issue

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Dispensing with the "MORALITY" issue

you only got 269 more then me

Is that all.... Had a few more last night since that post; only 20 odd though so not bad

[DGJsaver]

Re: Dispensing with the "MORALITY" issue

Good work Niddy , sod Peter , the people here who have been with you since the start dont need to read it , the feeling of shytness that already hangs over `debtors` is bad enough as it is , without smug , devils advocate bell ends sticking their oar in...

[diddlydee]

Re: Dispensing with the "MORALITY" issue

Diddly squat.

Being very servile, I will do as you ask, but could I enquire as to why?

Seriously though, we relish freedom of speech and enjoy the banter but I think that the moderation of this thread was spot on.

[garlok]

Re: Dispensing with the "MORALITY" issue

What a raft of brilliant posts since yesterday evening. I believe Niddy has behaved absolutely correctly in the best interests of the whole community.

And please note how the mood has lightened

However as regards the horrors of your particularly bad story SaltnVinegar, it reinforces my opinion that in principle the whole thing operates in a similar way, it is a well orchestrated well rehearsed policy which in anyone's view should and is a criminal matter.

Ireland still imprison their debtors. What a disgrace in a civilised nation that we lend money too!

If you take a look at my original post you will see I have included a quote which is in the public domain of the senior partner of a large litigation law practice who have a dedicated consumer credit department and a somewhat more enlightened approach, i.e OUR approach to these matters.

I will admit they are our solicitors that we found whilst we were in the real depths of despair with a similar history to yours. None of the threat brigade will any way attempt to take them on, the OC will NOT take them on and they have been given the offer to take us to court otherwise "go and do the other thing" (feeling polite this morning).

Two years now and they have gone to do the other thing to date.

The other element to this matter is that following "Carey" the lenders are , from doing a lot of reading, seem to be targeting the weaker LIP defences to build a case law history. This I also find immoral but it is dog eat dog approach to everything, win at any cost. Hence whatever our personal feelings may be I believe it is essential that we have to adopt the same mental approaches.

And the quote says this is not about avoiding paying our debts it is about large sophisticated institutions obeying the law and paying the penalties laid down in the law for not doing so.

I think thats fair enough.

regards
Garlok

[MrsD]

Re: Dispensing with the "MORALITY" issue

spot on moderation Niddy, the huge strength of this forum is its members, they help each other through what can be a long exhausting experience mostly because they are all doing the same thing, so personal experience counts for a lot and this forum's members are generous with time and empathy. We don't need guys who don't agree with our ethos and appear to be out to destroy confidence in said ethos. must be a lonely life!!!

[garlok]

Re: Dispensing with the "MORALITY" issue

A very sad life ELD. But life goes on and is better for being able discuss the problems like adults here.

Niddy will go mad but I do love the smileys!!!

regards
Garlok

[The Debt Star]

Re: Dispensing with the "MORALITY" issue

I do love the smileys!!!

aargh! I detest the smileys!

[pompeyfaith]

Re: Dispensing with the "MORALITY" issue

And on a brigher note it is a fine sunny day down on the south coast ideal for a walk along the hayling billy line with my dog.

[garlok]

Re: Dispensing with the "MORALITY" issue

Your out to make me jealous PF, I know the route well at the top of Langstone there.

Perhaps we should make our bankers walk that route again and again in the sunshine to make them realise that money is not everything in this life.

regards
Garlok

[pompeyfaith]

Re: Dispensing with the "MORALITY" issue

Indeed it is nice, it has a stream running along side with clear water which my dog loves """""""""

[Silverback]

Re: Dispensing with the "MORALITY" issue

Hello Garlok!

What a raft of brilliant posts since yesterday evening. I believe Niddy has behaved absolutely correctly in the best interests of the whole community.

And please note how the mood has lightened

Indeed, banning the Troll was by far the only sensible decision to have taken. But it does go to show how vulnerable Forums can be when faced with a determined attempt to destabilise things, as demonstrated by the mess that particular "well-meaning (my ass)" Troll has left elsewhere.

It would be wise to keep an eye out for similar activities, because there will be - inevitably - further attempts to do exactly the same thing.

There is a whole Debt Industry out there who simply hate it when the Debt Slaves jump out of line. They get especially upset when the Slaves begin to question the flawed principles upon which their Slavery is based.

This Forum has the potential to re-educate many people that Debt can be engineered, and that the problems they face were in most cases created for them, not by them. People need to appreciate that they were never really as in control of their finances as they were led to believe.

However, whilst it will be superb to contribute to that re-education and growing awareness that things out there are not all that they seem, we still have to deal with the immediate issues on a case by case basis, and do our level best to defeat the enemy on their own terms, if at all possible...and that usually means via letters and, sometimes, via a robust Defence should the matter end up in Court.

However as regards the horrors of your particularly bad story SaltnVinegar, it reinforces my opinion that in principle the whole thing operates in a similar way, it is a well orchestrated well rehearsed policy which in anyone's view should and is a criminal matter.

Ireland still imprison their debtors. What a disgrace in a civilised nation that we lend money too!

Agree, it is no accident that all of the DCAs and banks currently behave in more or less exactly the same way. They are all as bad as each other, and almost non of them stand out as being any better than the others when it gets to their Debt Collection activities.

After all, they employ the same idiot staff, and the murky pool from which those employees are drawn, is exactly the same pool from which all of the other banks and DCAs draw their staff from too. These people have given themselves absurd sounding titles to imply that their activities are Creditable and they even have their own "organisations", Logos, Forums and Magazines. This is not new, and has been going on now for many years, with the result that the banks and DCAs have inevitably adopted the same strategies because their Debt Collection staff are drawn from the very bottom of exactly the same stagnant labour pool.

Their strategies, almost without exception, now operate on the very threshold of criminality. The Harassment is very real, and the resultant effects on people is far worse than the Courts are daring to allow themselves to admit, albeit that the tide now appears to be turning on this.

The recent Harrison v Link case showed what steps the "Industry" will stoop to, in order to try and stop a Debt Slave from jumping out of line. What has not really been reported is the fact that in that case, they threw a small fortune at the problem, including the very best Lawyers and a box of the best Barristers. The fact that they lost, in my view, represented a major turning point, and one that Forums such as this must now build upon.

The tool to use is Unfairness.

The weapons of choice are s140A/B Unfair Relationship issues under The Consumer Credit Act 1974 and, where applicable, damages Claims/Counterclaims under s150 of The Financial Services and Markets Act 2000 when a Lender's own conduct (perhaps in contrast to the Regulation of the Agreement itself) is authorised and Regulated by the FSA, such that the latter imposes a duty upon them to Treat Customers Fairly (TCF).

The other element to this matter is that following "Carey" the lenders are, from doing a lot of reading, seem to be targeting the weaker LIP defences to build a case law history.

This is exactly what the Debt Industry are indeed doing, and they have deep enough pockets to steer such cases towards Judges who are wholly sympathetic to their cause.

The best we can do to combat that, is to create a Forum that provides the very best tools and advice to help people struggling with these issues. Where possible, we need to stop people from falling headlong into Bear Traps that the enemy has carefully set up ready for them to stumble in to, i.e. when they are trying to build the twisted Case Law that they are seeking to create.

Other Forums have tried this, and most have been broken apart by clever Troll activity that was specifically designed to undermine such efforts.

I believe there are now sufficient people here who know what I mean, who will not want to see the same happening here.

Getting rid of a known Troll was a very positive step in the right direction. The Forum must build on that, and if it can achieve that, then it has great potential for good.

This will scare the Debt Industry to the core, so the task now is to help Niddy to build AAD into the Debt Industry's worst nightmare. That being a highly organised and structured Forum, that offers everything from Education to providing effective tools to help people to help themselves, either directly, or by setting out the options for appropriate and proportionate professional help such as, say, when a case becomes very complex, or when at Appeal, or when the dice are simply too loaded to fight the issue alone.

Silverback

[midastouch]

Re: Dispensing with the "MORALITY" issue

Hey guys & girls.

Looks like summer's come back!

With all these horror stories, I'm surprised that nobody has written a book on the financial industry and their bullies.

Maybe I will...the title:

Never Trust A Merchant Banker



Actually, I'm being quite serious. Just a few years ago, debt was still a huge stigma for most people. Thanks to forums like this one (especially this one though), they've come to realise what a dirty shoddy business the banking industry is, and that to be in debt is not a crime but 99% inevitable given the way the world is run.

Keep smiling all and enjoy the sun while it lasts!

MT

[The Debt Star]

Re: Dispensing with the "MORALITY" issue

This forum's on a roll now, for sure.

Good post Silverback.

[differentjudge]

Re: Dispensing with the "MORALITY" issue

silverback

great post and agree with all you have said

i will give support to any one who needs it especialy this site....

ive called on their help before and it has been freely given.

[garlok]

Re: Dispensing with the "MORALITY" issue

What can I say Silverback? That is just one excellent post. This forum does have the potential for great things and has a common cause which we can all get behind.

Yes, we will be attacked and have recently been attacked in "backdoor" ways elsewhere. As Niddy has said, this is going to be the best most forward looking forum in consumer affairs and we should always be on the alert for the elements that would prefer that we do not exist.

regards
Garlok