diddlys mums washing machine...

[The Tech Clerk]

Re: diddlys mums washing machine...

In the Guardian 25th march 2006 6years from the date of purchase.

Which? - formerly the Consumers Association - says consumers should argue strongly with retailers when a product breaks down within six years. The Sale of Goods Act doesn't define how long specific products should last, because different products have different life spans. But a survey by Which? of manufacturers into how long they believe different types of appliance should last made interesting reading. All of them said their goods should last five years or more.

March 2006

[diddlydee]

Re: diddlys mums washing machine...

EU Directive, yes. 2 years from purchase for all products in EU. However, it is a Directive, so I presume it isn't actually a law, more a guide? Not sure if it has been tested in court, but I'd try!

[The Tech Clerk]

Re: diddlys mums washing machine...

Is there not a E.U. directive regarding electrical appliances and reference to 6 years??

[Deepie]

Re: diddlys mums washing machine...

These things are never easy sorry that I can't help.............

[diddlydee]

Re: diddlys mums washing machine...

Update: 11/10/12 - reply received

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Good Morning,


Thank you for your email,

Unfortunately we are unable to take this matter any further as you have not supplied us with the information we requested. We need the engineers report stating your product had a latent or inherent fault at time of manufacture. As we don't disbelieve what the engineer has told you, we do require this in writing from the engineer and that he agrees the parts were faulty at time of manufacture.


At this moment in time our position remains unchanged. If you can provide us with the information requested we will uphold what we promised to do in our previous correspondence.

King regards, (yes, they wrote "king regards")



Electrical Discount UK
Customer Service

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Any input welcomed...

I am considering bring Hotpoint into the conversation to see what they have to say on the matter. Does anyone have contacts for Hotpoint, please?

I am prepared for small claims court (I would pay for this on mums behalf) if necessary.

Engineers comments are one thing, but he wouldn't write it on the report, probably because he is aware that what he says is one thing, but what he writes is binding! We have kept the part, so can prove without doubt that it has no signs of damage, if that matters.

[diddlydee]

Re: diddlys mums washing machine...

Update: 10/10/12 - email sent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

FAO: Mr Mark Walder, Customer Service Manager
FAO: Mr Michael Scothern, Company Director

I refer to our previous correspondence.

As previously requested, please now find attached a copy of the engineers report and invoice.

As you will see from the attached, the fault which caused the breakdown of the machine was the PCB (on the attached shown as "Module Arcadia".)

The engineer commented that the part at fault shows no sign of wear, damage or "blowing" and that it has simply stopped working for no obvious reason. Certainly this cannot be blamed on user error or misuse.

Therefore with this in mind, it is apparent that a respected brand washing machine, with less than average use and less than two years old should NOT have broken down, and that the fault must have been inherent at time of manufacture/sale.

I therefore look to you as a well known, respected retailer, one who would benefit greatly from offering exception customer service and one who would abide by the law (SOGA) and EU directives to refund to me, by return, the cost of the labour charge as shown on the attached - £104.99.

Should you still feel that your position remains unchanged despite the above, then I shall have no option but to take this matter further.

I anticipate your reply within 48 hours of receipt of this email.

[diddlydee]

Re: diddlys mums washing machine...

Engineer is coming Monday (their own warranty guy), so we will be in full receipt of the "facts" as they say, but whatever the outcome, no washing machine is sold EVER on the basis of "if you are lucky it will last you two years" - if it were, no bugger would buy one!

Any input welcomed, note that they are completely ignoring EU directives...

[diddlydee]

Re: diddlys mums washing machine...

Update: 5/10/12 - email received

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you for your email,

Please accept our apologies regarding this issue and we do empathise with you that this is a very stressful and upsetting situation.

We are fully aware of the responsibilities relating to the 'sales of goods act', as we have explained in our previous correspondence we'll need to have proof there was a latent or inherent fault when your item was manufactured, and without this proof we can not further your claim. Please feel free to send us a report from a qualified Hotpoint engineer confirming your product was faulty during manufacturing.


We are not refusing any legal responsibilities we may have but we do require proof from a qualified engineer. Once you have the report please get back to us and we will forward your claim. Please be aware we can not forward any claim without knowing the facts first.


Many Thanks,

Electrical Discount UK
Customer Service

[diddlydee]

Re: diddlys mums washing machine...

Thank you, Elsa xx

[Undercover Elsa]

Re: diddlys mums washing machine...

Another avenue to explore, should you not get satisfaction, Diddles:

SafeBuy

Protecting the consumer


http://www.electricaldiscountuk.co.uk/
is registered and assured with SafeBuy
Harry Garlick TV Centres
is being continuously monitored

Current status: Valid until 28 July 2013
The SafeBuy Consumer Code of Practice has successfully completed the first stage of the OFT's Consumer Codes Approval Scheme.
5 leading reasons to buy from a SafeBuy member

You can be confident that you'll have a hassle-free online shopping experience. All members commit to:

• Adherence to all relevant UK and EU laws with further benefits such as a 14 day 'cooling off' period (where possible)
• Total privacy of personal data and security of credit card handling
• Clear presentation of all costs including delivery charges and VAT
• Effective communication systems with name and address and contact phone number
• Mediation services for consumer complaints provided by SafeBuy and the Chartered Institute of Arbitrators

SafeBuy members are continuously monitored through mystery shopping.
Further information at SafeBuy - Home
- including the Code of Practice which SafeBuy members agree to follow.


www.safebuy.org.uk

[oscar]

Re: diddlys mums washing machine...

Diddles,

Regards your comment above on (not exactly how you worded it) "lasting a reasonable length of time"

I wouldnt class two years as reasonable, and you are correct with your interpretation of EU Law - and as we are a member of the EU, we are bound by EU Law - and that this states a warranty of two years applies. There is no definition of what would be considered reasonable.

The company are in effect hiding behind SoGA - what they have said is vaguely correct, (mostly with their 6 months which falls under Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regs) however they have failed to fully or properly address the issues concerned.

I would quote him part of his last inept response and ask him directly "What do you think would be reasonable length of time for a washing machine to be fully functioning" Also, the fault DOESNT have to be present at the point of sale (as in his email) - unless he is stating of course that all their goods are faulty (and therefore should be "sold as seen")

I would also be asking him to explain how he knows there is no "latent or inherent fault" given no one has, as of yet, inspected the machine

[CleverClogs (RIP)]

Re: diddlys mums washing machine...

I thank you for the message in which you informed me of your current thread and in which you thanked me for having helped re Pixmania. You are much too kind, for I am sure that I did nothing (or next to nothing) to help.

You already seem to have done all I would advise, with the exception of telling your local Trading Standards wallahs about the way the retailer seems determined to evade its legal obligations. I believe that Trading Standards may have ways to induce the retailer to see sense other than a pair of pincers applied to the Managing Director's goolies, although the latter would doubtless be more satisfying to observe.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: diddlys mums washing machine...

You are honoured, I have started a nice shiny new thread for my communications with you! Link? Oh, okay then, here it is: http://forums.all-about-debt.co.uk/s...ead.php?t=7622

Happy to add to Consumer Revenge if necessary....

[jen_br]

Re: diddlys mums washing machine...

Good on ya, I am sure that they will soon realise the errors in their ways.

[diddlydee]

Re: diddlys mums washing machine...

Impatient me, as ever, reply sent...

Update 04/10/12 - email sent

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

FAO: Mr Mark Walder, Customer Service Manager
FAO: Mr Michael Scothern, Company Director

I acknowledge receipt of your reply which clearly misinterprets the SOGA 1979 and totally ignores the EU directive relating to warranties for goods purchased within the EU (for your assistance and education, please read the document here: http://ec.europa.eu/publications/boo...move/64/en.pdf )

Under section 14 of the Sale of Goods Act, clearly the implied terms are that any product sold would be fit for purpose. Would you think it acceptable for a washing machine to last less than two years with less than average use? I certainly don't, but more importantly NEITHER DOES THE LAW. As you are aware, an engineer is visiting the premises on Monday, 8th October, who will assess the machine for repair under the extended warranty (parts only). His report will be presented to you for your information and his bill will be presented to you for payment.

Mssrs Walder & Scothern, you do have a choice in how to proceed with this matter. Either:

a) do the right thing and resolve this matter to my satisfaction and have yourself a fully satisfied customer prepared to wholeheartedly recommend you to all;
b) continue to fob me off with "warranty" quotes and force me to take further action against Electrical Discount UK.

The choice is of course yours, but you and I both know that I will not go away, and Electrical Discount UK cannot win an argument which is clearly backed by UK & EU law.

Over to you.......


PS. I would also like to provide you with a link to a similar recent thread of mine on a UK forum. This forum is a consumer advice forum solely set up for the purpose of assisting consumers to fight for their rights. A forum on which I am a moderator. A forum which also has the force of legal advisors and experts in this field. A forum which is successful.

http://forums.all-about-debt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=3243

With the above in mind, you may see that you are not dealing with just an ordinary customer who will go away, you are dealing with someone prepared to fight for what is their rights as a UK consumer.

You are honoured, I have started a nice shiny new thread for my communications with you! Link? Oh, okay then, here it is: http://forums.all-about-debt.co.uk/s...ead.php?t=7622