Unenforceability General Questions & Answers

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Unenforceability General Questions & Answers

[QUOTE=Locke;425364]is it safe for me to do so via internet banking if I have an unenforceable card already with that company?[/QUOTE]Of course, it's her account - nothing to do with you mate - go for it :)

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Unenforceability General Questions & Answers

[QUOTE=Locke;425366]Nice one mate and thank you for the quick response!

Is it worth paying the £10 and getting all of the statements for the last 6 years now ready?[/QUOTE]No chance - wait until AFTER it goes SB and then leave it to die. You only try and reclaim if they get heavy before SB as we use that to negotiate settlement / stop a claim / dispute the debt etc.

Maybe you're misunderstanding what the process is..... you don't claim PPI on an UE debt ever - the fact you get away with not paying the debt is enough to walk away. If for any reason your PPI reclaim would exceed any UE balance (say you had a £1k debt but had PPI for 20 years, the PPI would obviously be more than the £1k debt) you'd then not fight UE but instead do the reclaim, settle the debt and pocket the difference.

If it's UE and passes SB stage you walk away and forget the account.

[Locke]

Re: Unenforceability General Questions & Answers

[QUOTE=Never-In-Doubt;425374]No chance - wait until AFTER it goes SB and then leave it to die. You only try and reclaim if they get heavy before SB as we use that to negotiate settlement / stop a claim / dispute the debt etc.

Maybe you're misunderstanding what the process is..... you don't claim PPI on an UE debt ever - the fact you get away with not paying the debt is enough to walk away. If for any reason your PPI reclaim would exceed any UE balance (say you had a £1k debt but had PPI for 20 years, the PPI would obviously be more than the £1k debt) you'd then not fight UE but instead do the reclaim, settle the debt and pocket the difference.

If it's UE and passes SB stage you walk away and forget the account.[/QUOTE]

Will do mate, to be honest it wasn't something I had even considered before but the question on the last page got my attention!

It wouldn't be much anyway compared to what I owe them so I'm happy to spend the next 18 months waiting the one out and then walking away.

Thanks again mate.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Unenforceability General Questions & Answers

Sorry, you're talking about if it's assigned in totality to a dca - can you reclaim?

Yes, but I'd not recommend it unless you've a lot to get back / cause headaches because all it does is prove to a judge you had no intentions of paying the debt. In situations where it's assigned to a dca and that dca is pissing you off - do a reclaim, they must pay you directly, and you use that reclaim to settle with the dca.

You always reclaim via the OC so in cases the dca never knows you done it. However a dca always has a right to recourse a debt back to the OC so if you reclaim the OC could recall the account and then apply it as ROSo and it affects SB.

So it's very risky.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Unenforceability General Questions & Answers

Make sense?

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Unenforceability General Questions & Answers

Some info on SB debts - especially relevant to those utilising the UE process....

[QUOTE]There's an ongoing dispute regards SB and we have a couple of cases going to court this year so we should hopefully get some clarity then. People base SB as being 6+ years from date of last payment or signed acknowledgement. It's actually +6 years from the Cause of Action (CoA)..[B].I therefore say to class it as +6 years & 1 month from date of first missed payment.[/B]

However certain DCA's are trying to say that SB occurs from after default & termination - which does constitute a Cause of Action (CoA) - however if a lender waits a year (or even 5) before issuing the required s.87 default notice then in essence they can defer & manipulate SB indefinitely and that is our argument. We argue that technically the Act stipulates that SB occurs after the last CoA but that a lenders obligation to supply s.87 etc should be considered from the first opportunity allowed which would be approximately +24 days from the date you breached the agreement; ie the date you missed your first payment.

So in layman we argue that if you last paid in Jan 2009 but the lender didn't default you (s.87) until say Jan 2010 the official CoA occurred approximately +24 days from the ORIGINAL CoA created by you when you missed a payment which presumably in this example would be Feb 2009 meaning you add 24 days to this and the lender *COULD* default / terminate by mid March 2009 so regardless that they didn't do it (default you under s.87) until a year later in Jan 2010 would not create a valid cause of action. It'd remain as being around March 2009 as being the first opportunity to default & terminate after the breach occurred.

Basically, the lenders & DCA's are taking the piss. There's case law backing our argument and really, the original CoA occurs when the debtor breached the agreement and the secondary CoA is when the lender is lawfully able to default and terminate which is at least +24 days from the first Cause of Action regardless when they actually issued s.87 notifications. [/QUOTE]

Extract from --> [url]http://forums.all-about-debt.co.uk/showthread.php?18444-Statute-barred&p=530194#post530194[/url]

[nightwatch]

Re: Unenforceability General Questions & Answers

under this confusion one of my accounts has been closed by a DCA as being SB, which I thank them for as I last made a payment in 2012, :)

[jadex]

Re: Unenforceability General Questions & Answers

And how fair is that?

In Europe they usually have 3 years; in Scotland 5 years (and there is no hanging forever SB but debt is simply eradicated) yet here in England it is rock-and-roll for DCAs.

First it is debt acknowledgment (so payment into debt account presumably counts, but then somebody else could easily pay in and restart the clock? and what if my payments were all from my partner's personal account?) then they say it is from CoA (month or so later but there might be a credit products with no required payments for much longer than just 1 month, hence SB date would be much later then if CoA counts?) and then they say: no, no, wait, it is from date the default was registered on your credit file (which is a complete mickey as CRAs entry has no legal bearings and serves only for admin purposes, right?) which may adds 9 months (3 for getting default notice + 6 for actually registering default) plus then 1 month for default to be dropped from one's credit file.

So does it mean, putting all above together, that it is almost 7 years taken out from someone's life?

In my case last payments were Nov-Dec 2009, defaults registered on credit file between Mar-Sep 2010; will have a clear credit file in Oct 2016 (and then SB status for some accounts which will be there forever - so would I need to inform "owners" about my current whereabouts every time I move?).
And in the meantime I have crossed the age threshold for getting standard 25 years mortgage, so my future looks bleak.
My life is basically fcuked up and all of this because someone decided to steal my identity and CRAs put lovely mark on my file which caused impossibility to shift my credit cards when I needed it.
And HM Government is not interested in reducing those 6 years to EU's 3 ones as that would wiped out billions from "growing" economy - personal debt is an asset for DCAs even if it is SB (as they can still nicely ask to pay it up...)

Fair, isn't it?

[greymatter]

Re: Unenforceability General Questions & Answers

It is about time the SB situation for England was looked into and brought in line with at least Scotland.

[The Tech Clerk]

Re: Unenforceability General Questions & Answers

with europe more like no one rule for them and another for us

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Unenforceability General Questions & Answers

[QUOTE=jadex;534452]And how fair is that?[/QUOTE]

It's not - agreed :(

[QUOTE=jadex;534452]In Europe they usually have 3 years; in Scotland 5 years (and there is no hanging forever SB but debt is simply eradicated) yet here in England it is rock-and-roll for DCAs.[/QUOTE]

It's still unlawful for them to hassle you after 6 years so don't worry

[QUOTE=jadex;534452]First it is debt acknowledgment (so payment into debt account presumably counts, but then somebody else could easily pay in and restart the clock? [/QUOTE]

Nope - impossible. The only things that affect SB is signed admittance or payment by you - such like PPi refunded to the debt account; you didn't pay it so it does not affect SB.

[QUOTE=jadex;534452]and what if my payments were all from my partner's personal account?) then they say it is from CoA (month or so later but there might be a credit products with no required payments for much longer than just 1 month, hence SB date would be much later then if CoA counts?) and then they say: no, no, wait, it is from date the default was registered on your credit file (which is a complete mickey as CRAs entry has no legal bearings and serves only for admin purposes, right?) which may adds 9 months (3 for getting default notice + 6 for actually registering default) plus then 1 month for default to be dropped from one's credit file.[/QUOTE]

I think you have misread this - we've never said it works like that

[QUOTE=jadex;534452]So does it mean, putting all above together, that it is almost 7 years taken out from someone's life?[/QUOTE]

6 years is maximum - for UK.

[QUOTE=jadex;534452]In my case last payments were Nov-Dec 2009, defaults registered on credit file between Mar-Sep 2010; will have a clear credit file in Oct 2016 (and then SB status for some accounts which will be there forever - so would I need to inform "owners" about my current whereabouts every time I move?).[/QUOTE]

Why would you tell them when you move? You wouldn't - if it's SB it's SB - end of. My post above explains the likely possibilities for SB....

[QUOTE=jadex;534452]And in the meantime I have crossed the age threshold for getting standard 25 years mortgage, so my future looks bleak.[/QUOTE]

You should be ok next year from what you've said....

[QUOTE=jadex;534452]My life is basically fcuked up and all of this because someone decided to steal my identity and CRAs put lovely mark on my file which caused impossibility to shift my credit cards when I needed it.[/QUOTE]

If it's ID fraud that's [B]entirely [/B]different and should not affect you. been there, read the book, wore the hat - now I test things and don't worry about it not being mine :)

In your case if it is ID fraud then the CRA should not be reporting, but only if they are aware of the fraud and you've notified CIFAS.....

[QUOTE=jadex;534452]And HM Government is not interested in reducing those 6 years to EU's 3 ones as that would wiped out billions from "growing" economy - personal debt is an asset for DCAs even if it is SB (as they can still nicely ask to pay it up...)

Fair, isn't it?[/QUOTE]

The whole system stinks and is one-sided. That allows us to help you guys to beat the bullying f*ckers :beer

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Unenforceability General Questions & Answers

[QUOTE=greymatter;534482]It is about time the SB situation for England was looked into and brought in line with at least Scotland.[/QUOTE]Or brought into line with realism - we don't CHOOSE to get in debt - shit happens.

We should use defaults like EU - 3 years.

[MustGetStraigh]

Re: Unenforceability General Questions & Answers

In my case, mine were defaulted before I ceased paying anything (by several months). So, will the DCAs propose that I'm SB from the default date, will they heck. They will argue that it's date of last payment! That's while they are busy telling other people that it's the default date that counts.

I didn't know that it was 3 years in Europe. There was I wishing I lived in Scotland, now I wish I was in the South of France ;)

[Spent2much]

Re: Unenforceability General Questions & Answers

[QUOTE=MustGetStraigh;536224]In my case, mine were defaulted before I ceased paying anything (by several months). So, will the DCAs propose that I'm SB from the default date, will they heck. They will argue that it's date of last payment! That's while they are busy telling other people that it's the default date that counts.

I didn't know that it was 3 years in Europe. There was I wishing I lived in Scotland, now I wish I was in the South of France ;)[/QUOTE]

I have no idea when our debts were defaulted , that's why i wanted to see the credit files but don't want to alert the dca .

[hra47]

Re: Unenforceability General Questions & Answers

A credit card company never sent me 'Your right to cancel' details,as noted at the bottom of the agreement signed in 2004 - it said 'exact details of how and when you can do this will be sent to you by post by **** . I never received this,and a DSAR shows no copy of any such cancellation rights sent to me at any time,in any shape or form.
How does this affect enforceabilty of the agreement? Thnx in advance