Unenforceable Overdrafts - CCA Information

[PlanB]

Re: Annual Statements of Account?

[QUOTE=Never-In-Doubt;138219]It would not affect anything enforceability wise, it is a minor breach, kind of like the lender not sending an annual statement in line with current legislation.

You could complain to the Ombudsman - that's about your lot. :cool[/QUOTE]


Something tells me that the FOS aren't minded to uphold complaints about HSBC these days ;W ;W ;W

[PlanB]

Re: Annual Statements of Account?

[QUOTE=Never-In-Doubt;138220]To enforce in court they'd still have to provide the standard documents as per agreement i.e. prove that you agreed to the terms and conditions therein.

If they cannot, ie no paperwork, then you'd have a fighting chance BUT bear in mind you have [B]no [/B]CCA protection like s.127 etc etc.....[/QUOTE]

In the very least writing to a DCA to ask for the original documents could work as a delaying tactic. And since most DCAs have zippo knowledge of consumer law they may well take fright and send back it back to the lender :grin That'll be another two months peace and quiet!

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Annual Statements of Account?

[QUOTE=PlanB;138226]In the very least writing to a DCA to ask for the original documents could work as a delaying tactic. And since most DCAs have zippo knowledge of consumer law they may well take fright and send back it back to the lender :grin That'll be another two months peace and quiet![/QUOTE] Well actually you'd have no provision to request documents other than part of SAR.

You cannot demand they comply with s.74(a) or s.74(b) - if they do not then you complain to the regulator. Does it sound like I am pro-bank or does it sound like the system sucks? :callme

:beer

[mk_chatham]

Re: Annual Statements of Account?

Hi

I am now helping a family friend with multiple debts which he has been paying £1 per month to for a couple of years.

He has never received any type of statement from any of the DCAs. Most appear to be acting as agents, a couple of the debts have now been assigned to new owners.

I was thinking of writing the letter below to all of the DCAs and to obtain copies of his credit report from the CRAs to get an accurate total of his debt. Not sure if any are old enough to consider UE.

He has been paying these debts so it does not matter that he is acknowledging them. To be sent signed for

[COLOR="Navy"]Dear Sir

I have been making token payments of £1.00 per month since XX/XX/XXXX to you for the above mentioned account. I have never received a statement from you showing that these payments have been credited to my account.

As you are no doubt aware you have an obligation under the Consumer Credit Act to send me a statement of account at least once a year; you do not appear to have done so.

I would be grateful for a statement showing all payments received since XX/XX/XXXX and the balance outstanding on this account.

Yours faithfully

Signed Digitally.[/COLOR]

Is there anything you think I should add to this, or anything important that I have missed out.

Thanks

MK

[Flossy]

Re: Flossy UE Diary & YB Hassle

FP, Glad your OK and thank you for your help.

Niddy, I do understand . I was trying to do the disability with debt before when you said I shouldn't have been. Maybe that was due to you wanting to get the other things out of the way first.

The O/D Cabot defence was done by the 'bad advice man' (in writing over email, etc...)and therefore not exactly the right advice as Paul has already told me. There are so many points not raised in the defence due to G wanting to 'test' his new theory or whatever he is doing. Paul was trying to see if we could add or put in a new defence but that didn't amount to anything.

Defence was at the court 3rd January. It was due in on the 4th January. Its now 28 days after Cabot receiving a copy of my defence. After that time has elapsed, the claim will be stayed.

I am unsure of what happens if it is stayed?

Paul is away from the office for a while but I have emailed him. He has had all the info of the defence and paperwork from YB and Cabot. He is now busy so I guess I have to go back to Gwyn who I first spoke with at the start of all this. Either way the defence doesn't look good but Paul did say that he has never seen a case won with whats on my defence apart from something back in 1940 something! Maybe that was why I was used as a guinea pig?????

Can an O/D be UE? Is a CCA used for overdrafts? Maybe settling a low figure is best if I stand no chance of getting anywhere with it?

If I settled on that would Cabot then think I would cave on paying the CC debt? Or is it likely they dont have the CCA info and they would have to drop the case?

Just a few thoughts....

Have posted Creation story without the help of a link :dance ..

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Flossy UE Diary & YB Hassle

[QUOTE=Flossy;146890]Can an O/D be UE? Is a CCA used for overdrafts? Maybe settling a low figure is best if I stand no chance of getting anywhere with it?

If I settled on that would Cabot then think I would cave on paying the CC debt? Or is it likely they dont have the CCA info and they would have to drop the case?

Just a few thoughts....

Have posted Creation story without the help of a link :dance ..[/QUOTE] Yes an OD can be UE, however right now I'm wondering if it'd be easier settling - maybe speak to Gwyn and discuss settlement of the OD debt.

Regards the CC with Cabot, stop stressing will you - they have not done anything yet and if they do, this time round you'll be better prepared and we will try and get you the best possible help in order to submit a defence - ergo STOP WORRYING will you? It is pointless worrying 'what if' all the time - right now worry about the most important thing which is stopping them from obtaining judgment which will then allow them access to apply for a CO and try and go for your house - THAT is all we are worried about right now and THAT is number one priority right now.

Yes continue to pay both cabot debts - I have stated this no less that 7 times already! :headbash:headbash:headbash

[Flossy]

Re: Flossy UE Diary & YB Hassle

Thank you for that Niddy.. Its actually only twice you have said it.... :tongue2

I cant help wondering about things. I was just asking questions for a better understanding. I am new to all this and have never had any debts before. While it is stressful its is also raising questions. Dont forget I was getting help before and ended up in a mess with extremely bad advice. I just want to be prepared and understand why I am doing these things. Sorry if I am making you bang your head against a wall.. It wont do your head much good!:tongue2

I will shut up now. Go and take a break and have a hour of no stress.

I have put my creation post up. If you'd of lived closer you could have taken the sofa back for me!

[Flossy]

Re: Flossy UE Diary & YB Hassle

Hi,

Today I have received a letter from Cabot re: my O/D with YB. This is what it says:

I refer to your letter received on 23 January 2012.

We acknowledge receipt of your request under section 77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 ("CCA").

Please be advised that there is no need for us to provide a copy of your credit agreement under the CCA for Current Accounts and Overdraft Facilities, as Part V of the CCA does not apply to these types of accounts. The exclusion of Current Accounts falling into Part V of the CCA is set out in section 74(1)(b).

I trust we have set out our position clearly.

If you have any further queries in relation to the above account, please do not hesitate to contact me on *******. The Customer Assurance Department is open from 9am to 5pm Monday to Friday.

Yours sincerely,

Alex Smith
Customer Assurance Adviser.

Any advice Niddy?

I also have received another letter back from Wescot re: Halifax which I will post up shortly.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Flossy UE Diary & YB Hassle

[QUOTE=Flossy;149253]Hi,

Today I have received a letter from Cabot re: my O/D with YB. This is what it says:[/QUOTE] I'll come back to this - just bear with us...

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Flossy UE Diary & YB Hassle

[QUOTE=Flossy;149253]Hi,

Today I have received a letter from Cabot re: my O/D with YB. This is what it says:

I refer to your letter received on 23 January 2012.

We acknowledge receipt of your request under section 77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 ("CCA").

Please be advised that there is no need for us to provide a copy of your credit agreement under the CCA for Current Accounts and Overdraft Facilities, as Part V of the CCA does not apply to these types of accounts. The exclusion of Current Accounts falling into Part V of the CCA is set out in section 74(1)(b).

I trust we have set out our position clearly.

If you have any further queries in relation to the above account, please do not hesitate to contact me on *******. The Customer Assurance Department is open from 9am to 5pm Monday to Friday.

Yours sincerely,


Customer Assurance Adviser.

Any advice Niddy?

I also have received another letter back from Wescot re: Halifax which I will post up shortly.[/QUOTE] Hiya - Ok well lets have some fun here, try sending this latest Niddy Special - see what they think to this ;W ;W

It contains a lot of regulation and legislation so lets this will show how good they really are, it'll also give them the incling you aint just a typical consumer - it'll give the impression you're not to be messed about with based on your knowledge of such a complex piece of legislation! :lol

Reply as follows:[INDENT]Dear Sirs,

[B]Ref: XXXXXXXX[/B]

I refer to your letter received on 27 January 2012.

I also acknowledge receipt of your letter which is, in fact total nonsense. Regardless of the provisions of sections 77-79 you seem to have forgotten about The Consumer Credit (EU Directive) Regulations 2010 and also c.39 (s.74 (A&B) (VA)) CCA(1974).

As I held what can only be regarded as an agreed overdraft, then the lending does indeed become regulated in line with Part VA (s.74) (s.1(b)) meaning the normal rules and CCA(1974) protection applies.

The lender also needs to send an annual reminder to me regards the overdraft, as well as copies of the original agreement made and an annual renewal form that contains the relevant prescribed terms that are clearly outlined in s.74(A)2(a,b,c,d,e). As nothing of the sort has ever been recorded as received by myself, this account is in fact unenforceable.

You go on to mention that "The exclusion of Current Accounts falling into Part V of the CCA is set out in section 74(1)(b)" yet here I am reading it and wondering what makes you exempt? As I say, before quoting me legislation at least try and understand the principle behind it first. Your claim regards s.74(1)(b) is not in context based on the fact the provision within s.74(A)(2) has failed; I highlight this provision for your perusal;[INDENT][B]s.74A(2)[/B] The current account agreement must include the following information at the time it is made:[INDENT][B](a)[/B]the rate of interest charged on the amount by which an account-holder overdraws on the current account or exceeds the pre-arranged overdraft limit,
[B](b)[/B]any conditions applicable to that rate,
[B](c)[/B]any reference rate on which that rate is based,
[B](d)[/B]information on any changes to the rate of interest (including the periods that the rate applies and any conditions or procedure applicable to changing that rate), and
[B](e)[/B]any other charges payable by the debtor under the agreement (and the conditions under which those charges may be varied).[/INDENT][/INDENT]You should also be paying attention to s.74(B)(2) which reads, I quote; [INDENT][B]s.74B(2)[/B] The matters referred to in subsection (1) are:[INDENT][B](a)[/B]the fact that the current account is overdrawn or the overdraft limit has been exceeded,
[B](b)[/B]the amount of that overdraft or excess,
[B](c)[/B]the rate of interest charged on it, and
[B](d)[/B]any other charges payable by the debtor in relation to it (including any penalties and any interest on those charges).
[/INDENT][/INDENT]I trust that I have set out my position clearly? I await your response with the requested information, as per my original letter (assuming you have the information, of course).

Yours faithfully,


[SIZE=5][B][COLOR=DarkOrange]Sign Digitally[/COLOR][/B][/SIZE]
[/INDENT]

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Flossy UE Diary & YB Hassle

This thread is interesting and deals with the overdraft issues, it is also where I based the above template from: ---> [B][URL="http://forums.all-about-debt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=2813"]Annual Statements of Account? - allaboutFORUMS[/URL][/B]

[Susie]

Re: Flossy UE Diary & YB Hassle

[QUOTE=Never-In-Doubt;149318]Hiya - Ok well lets have some fun here, try sending this latest Niddy Special - see what they think to this ;W ;W

It contains a lot of regulation and legislation so lets this will show how good they really are, it'll also give them the incling you aint just a typical consumer - it'll give the impression you're not to be messed about with based on your knowledge of such a complex piece of legislation! :lol
[/QUOTE]
:eek :ohno :applause

Where is the "holy shit" smiley!! Thats one hell of a letter :rotf

[Flossy]

Re: Flossy UE Diary & YB Hassle

Wow! Nice letter. Im sure we can have some fun with this. I cant wait for a reply :winks

Thanks Niddy your a star!

I am wondering what will happen with this one as this is the one they are taking to court!

Sending off A.S.A.P 1st class recorded.

[mauijim]

Re: Flossy UE Diary & YB Hassle

[QUOTE=Never-In-Doubt;149318]Hiya - Ok well lets have some fun here, try sending this latest Niddy Special - see what they think to this ;W ;W

It contains a lot of regulation and legislation so lets this will show how good they really are, it'll also give them the incling you aint just a typical consumer - it'll give the impression you're not to be messed about with based on your knowledge of such a complex piece of legislation! :lol

Reply as follows:[INDENT]Dear Sirs,

[B]Ref: XXXXXXXX[/B]

I refer to your letter received on 27 January 2012.

I also acknowledge receipt of your letter which is, in fact total nonsense. Regardless of the provisions of sections 77-79 you seem to have forgotten about The Consumer Credit (EU Directive) Regulations 2010 and also c.39 (s.74 (A&B) (VA)) CCA(1974).

As I held what can only be regarded as an agreed overdraft, then the lending does indeed become regulated in line with Part VA (s.74) (s.1(b)) meaning the normal rules and CCA(1974) protection applies.

The lender also needs to send an annual reminder to me regards the overdraft, as well as copies of the original agreement made and an annual renewal form that contains the relevant prescribed terms that are clearly outlined in s.74(A)2(a,b,c,d,e). As nothing of the sort has ever been recorded as received by myself, this account is in fact unenforceable.

You go on to mention that "The exclusion of Current Accounts falling into Part V of the CCA is set out in section 74(1)(b)" yet here I am reading it and wondering what makes you exempt? As I say, before quoting me legislation at least try and understand the principle behind it first. Your claim regards s.74(1)(b) is not in context based on the fact the provision within s.74(A)(2) has failed; I highlight this provision for your perusal;[INDENT][B]s.74A(2)[/B] The current account agreement must include the following information at the time it is made:[INDENT][B](a)[/B]the rate of interest charged on the amount by which an account-holder overdraws on the current account or exceeds the pre-arranged overdraft limit,
[B](b)[/B]any conditions applicable to that rate,
[B](c)[/B]any reference rate on which that rate is based,
[B](d)[/B]information on any changes to the rate of interest (including the periods that the rate applies and any conditions or procedure applicable to changing that rate), and
[B](e)[/B]any other charges payable by the debtor under the agreement (and the conditions under which those charges may be varied).[/INDENT][/INDENT]You should also be paying attention to s.74(B)(2) which reads, I quote; [INDENT][B]s.74B(2)[/B] The matters referred to in subsection (1) are:[INDENT][B](a)[/B]the fact that the current account is overdrawn or the overdraft limit has been exceeded,
[B](b)[/B]the amount of that overdraft or excess,
[B](c)[/B]the rate of interest charged on it, and
[B](d)[/B]any other charges payable by the debtor in relation to it (including any penalties and any interest on those charges).
[/INDENT][/INDENT]I trust that I have set out my position clearly? I await your response with the requested information, as per my original letter (assuming you have the information, of course).

Yours faithfully,


[SIZE=5][B][COLOR=DarkOrange]Sign Digitally[/COLOR][/B][/SIZE]
[/INDENT][/QUOTE]

Oh Man, I wish I had this letter when my OD went South!:boohoo Ho Hum, I should've joined earlier!

TBH I think I will have another battle soon with a different OD so perhaps I can get a Niddy Special?? :luck

MJ :beer

[PlanB]

Re: Flossy UE Diary & YB Hassle

[QUOTE=Never-In-Doubt;149318]

It contains a lot of regulation and legislation so lets this will show how good they really are, it'll also give them the incling you aint just a typical consumer - it'll give the impression you're not to be messed about with based on your knowledge of such a complex piece of legislation! :lol

Reply as follows:[INDENT]Dear Sirs,

[B]Ref: XXXXXXXX[/B]

I refer to your letter received on 27 January 2012.

I also acknowledge receipt of your letter which is, in fact total nonsense. Regardless of the provisions of sections 77-79 you seem to have forgotten about The Consumer Credit (EU Directive) Regulations 2010 and also c.39 (s.74 (A&B) (VA)) CCA(1974).

As I held what can only be regarded as an agreed overdraft, then the lending does indeed become regulated in line with Part VA (s.74) (s.1(b)) meaning the normal rules and CCA(1974) protection applies. :blah :blah :blah
[/QUOTE]
[/INDENT]Wow what a letter :wtf I want to send one of those to someone now :dance

Is there any chance a modified version of this could go into the Template Letters section under *Niddy Specials* if you think it would be the right one to send to a creditor or DCA harassing a debtor for an overdraft?