P800 Tax Calculation help

[di30]

Re: P800 Tax Calculation help

Okie dokie. The reason why they decline ESC A19 is because they believe she signed the P46 and they never received her P45. They also say that they decline her under ESC A19 because they do not believe they failed to notice the underpayment in time, which is true.

But under ESC A19 the employer is responsible if they failed to correctly tax her due to incorrect P46 or P45 submission / details being used.

We are not arguing HMRC failure, but an employer failure, that needs to be clear.

She needs to write or telephone them, up to her.

She should say, that her P45 was given to her employer and was notified recently that this was submitted online on xx/xx/xx

HMRC have recently confirmed in their letter that they received submission of a P46 which they believe she signed and ticked box B.

She does not agree she owes the underpayment for the following reasons.

P45 was given to her employer which showed the correct tax code, ytd pay and tax deducted.
Her Employer failed to use this info and submitted a P46, ticked box B, and taxed her on a month 1 week 1 basis, without her knowledge and without having sight of a P46, nor signature.

Since her employer failed to use the details on her P45, submitted a P46 without her knoweledge or consent, this resulted in two tax allowances being used and caused an underpayment.

Therefore her employer is responsible for the underpayment as they failed to correctly use the information provided at the time.

She should scan and send copies of her P45 and email that confirmed it was submitted.


This should be all she needs to do, it cant be any clearer than that.

Feel free to re word it or whatever, but you get the gist.

Marvellous, thank you.
I personally believe it's down to her employer and not the HMRC.

I did not see the letter she sent back originally a month or so ago, but she did say she mentioned about the employer being at fault and enclosed the email, but it does seem to be that they do want the further proof as procedure, such as when (date), who etc.

I think she will be happy with what you have wrote (thank you). So I take it she can do so by writing on the above form as posted above?

Cheers so much.

[SXGuy]

Re: P800 Tax Calculation help

Okie dokie. The reason why they decline ESC A19 is because they believe she signed the P46 and they never received her P45. They also say that they decline her under ESC A19 because they do not believe they failed to notice the underpayment in time, which is true.

But under ESC A19 the employer is responsible if they failed to correctly tax her due to incorrect P46 or P45 submission / details being used.

We are not arguing HMRC failure, but an employer failure, that needs to be clear.

She needs to write or telephone them, up to her.

She should say, that her P45 was given to her employer as soon as it was received from her previous employment and was notified recently that this was submitted online on xx/xx/xx

HMRC have recently confirmed in their letter that they received that no P45 was submitted but instead a P46 which they believe she signed and ticked box B.

She does not agree she owes the underpayment for the following reasons.

P45 was given to her employer which showed the correct tax code, ytd pay and tax deducted.
Her Employer failed to use this info and submitted a P46, ticked box B, and taxed her on a month 1 week 1 basis, without her knowledge and without having sight of a P46, nor signature.

Since her employer failed to use the details on her P45, submitted a P46 without her knoweledge or consent, this resulted in two tax allowances being used and caused an underpayment.

Therefore her employer is responsible for the underpayment as they failed to correctly use the information provided at the time.
She invites HMRC to ask her employer for a hard copy of the P46 which will show no signature.

She should scan and send copies of her P45 and email that confirmed it was submitted.


This should be all she needs to do, it cant be any clearer than that.

Feel free to re word it or whatever, but you get the gist.

[di30]

Re: P800 Tax Calculation help

2008-09 P800 & 2010-11 P800

[di30]

Re: P800 Tax Calculation help

P800 she received in November of underpayment and overpayment.

2008-09 and 2010-11

[di30]

Re: P800 Tax Calculation help

I did ask first if she was willing for me to post up some of her stuff and she agreed, to make it easier (now that I have set the scanner back up).

[di30]

Re: P800 Tax Calculation help

She coming back sometime on weekend to put this together, and left some of the info here, this is the form to complete if she wishes.

[SXGuy]

Re: P800 Tax Calculation help

May have done, may not have done.

The form it self is just kept by the employer, the actual online submission is done through the payroll software.

So they may have emailed her it and asked to sign and send back, or could have just grabbed her at work one day and said, oh sign this for me please.

Then again, may not have ever asked her to sign anything.

They may not even have the paper copy as like i say, its submitted online via payroll software. This is what we need to establish really.

If she has an A19 form she could just fill it out, doesnt have to be a letter, not sure how the form looks because ive never had to use one, but so long as all the info is there, then theres no reason why she cant use it.

[di30]

Re: P800 Tax Calculation help

Ju may pop by later so she can check the details you have said, but i will write this ready just in case anyway.
She did say on the letter she first sent them, she did also enclose the email from the employer confirming they sent it electronically, wonder if they missed that, or maybe that is why they have suggested they write to them perhaps?

Another thing I mentioned to her again was, because she used to be online and connected to the internet, if the employer had submitted an online P46, then surely they would have sent her this by email to complete and sign (if she did sign) of course, so I told her to check all her old emails on mine or her mum#s to see if they did do this, do you think they would have emailed her with a copy of the P46 by email is this is the case?

[di30]

Re: P800 Tax Calculation help

Yeah that would be it, so she needs to say to HMRC the employer is due to pay the underpayment under ESC A19 for submitting a P46 without my knowledge or signature, instead of following the information on my P45, which lead to me being taxed using a month 1 emergancy basis thus causing an underpayment.

As far as i was aware, the employer had submitted my P45 details and i was being taxed correctly, please find attached printed copy of an email where my employer has confirmed a P45 was submitted online, however according to your records this is not the case.

I rang her to tell her just to continue writing to HM, should she use that A19 form or put it into a letter do you think?

Told her what you said to write, and she says a big thank you again.

[SXGuy]

Re: P800 Tax Calculation help

Yeah that would be it, so she needs to say to HMRC the employer is due to pay the underpayment under ESC A19 for submitting a P46 without my knowledge or signature, instead of following the information on my P45, which lead to me being taxed using a month 1 emergancy basis thus causing an underpayment.

As far as i was aware, the employer had submitted my P45 details and i was being taxed correctly, please find attached printed copy of an email where my employer has confirmed a P45 was submitted online, however according to your records this is not the case.

[di30]

Re: P800 Tax Calculation help

So it looks up to now this is what "J" will be looking at........(Employer failing to follow P45 procedure)??


PAYE95011 - Reconcile individual: HMRC delay: ESC A19: employer error

When reviewing an ESC A19 claim, if you discover that the underpaid tax has occurred because of an employer error and not because of HMRC failure to make proper and timely use of information, then the employer should be pursued for payment of the tax.
Under-deductions caused by employer error commonly occur for the following reasons

• Using an incorrect tax code
• Failure to follow the P45 / P46 procedure
• Incorrect deduction due to incorrect use of tax tables
• Incorrectly considering an individuals’ tax status
• Payment of gross pay without operating a code

For cases where tax is underpaid because of an employer error, refer to the Customer Operations Guidance Gateway for the employer error SPD

[di30]

Re: P800 Tax Calculation help

Personally, i think her time would be better spent convincing HMRC that her employer made the mistake and caused the underpayment, so they then go after them for it and not her, i wouldnt worry to much about arguing it with the employer at the moment.

HMRC will likely ask her employer for a copy of the P46, which will omit her signature, because we know she didnt sign it.

Yes I think that will be a better idea too.
She did say she honestly don't remember completing/signing an online form (P46).
I note her letter states they received the P46 of which she supposedly had signed, where employer suggests she sign and opt for section B.

[SXGuy]

Re: P800 Tax Calculation help

Personally, i think her time would be better spent convincing HMRC that her employer made the mistake and caused the underpayment, so they then go after them for it and not her, i wouldnt worry to much about arguing it with the employer at the moment.

HMRC will likely ask her employer for a copy of the P46, which will omit her signature, because we know she didnt sign it.

[di30]

Re: P800 Tax Calculation help

Because according to HMRC her employer submitted a P46.

The P46 gives 3 boxes to chose from, depending on the answer depends on how the employee is taxed.

They ticked the box that ment she would be taxed at emergancy month 1 week 1, so she was given the same monthly tax allowance each month instead of cumlative.

So from that, HMRC can work out her total income, less tax allowance, then 20% as tax, minus tax stopped, the difference is the underpayment.

Oh right, I see. We learn something new everyday lol. Cheers for that

It does look like they (employer) did just do/send the P46 and not send the P45 like they said they did originally in my opinion, yet recently confirming they did not add on the previous income.
She did say, being naive that she did think it was all in order, so was surprised when she did receive the letter, and with that now she did say she certainly will learn from this and keep a closer eye on her taxes etc.

See what they come up with, and if this is the case, I think maybe she should then ask on why they told her by email that they did send the P45 as it was done electronically.

[SXGuy]

Re: P800 Tax Calculation help

Because according to HMRC her employer submitted a P46.

The P46 gives 3 boxes to chose from, depending on the answer depends on how the employee is taxed.

They ticked the box that ment she would be taxed at emergancy month 1 week 1, so she was given the same monthly tax allowance each month instead of cumlative.

So from that, HMRC can work out her total income, less tax allowance, then 20% as tax, minus tax stopped, the difference is the underpayment.