Daughters Employer Doesn't Give Holiday Pay

[pompeyfaith]

Re: Daughters Employer Doesn't Give Holiday Pay

No the employer has now crossed the line and basically sacked your daughter and now, no matter what they say - you stick to the fact that she scared your daughter and being she's pregnant and having to put up with this psycho bitch from hell, she'd have every right not to return.

Absolutely.

[charitynjw]

Re: Daughters Employer Doesn't Give Holiday Pay

SC,

Niddy is spot on (well, it had to happen sooner or later! ) when suggesting that you seek legal representation if you wish to pursue - imho, courts & the legal system have little time or respect for litigants-in-person (they get all 'humphy' & "No, you can't play, you're not in our gang!!")

However, you should raise an official grievance (although not an absolute requirement in law, it is a factor taken into consideration, & it will be evidence that any breach of contract - in this case, that of the employer's implied duty of care - has not been 'condoned' by yourselves).
Can you access the employer's grievance procedure? (If not, you could use the info on the ACAS website)

Re not going to the Employment Tribunal - as far as I'm aware, the ET has jurisdiction over virtually all matters relating to employment disputes, & certainly cases such as yours. (Unfair dismissal?)
You do have a time limit for initiating a claim - normally 3 months or so from the date the incident took place.
You can complete an ET1 online - best though to go via legal representation - CAB might also offer a route.

If you do decide to continue, ACAS will automatically become involved for mediation - although I would be surprised if that involvement went much beyond them relaying any out-of-court offers the employer may wish to make (yes, I know, so young yet so cynical, lol!)

Re the 2 cases i mentioned earlier, 'Morrow' specifically concerns someone who was 'bawled out' by her employer, on the shop floor & in front of colleagues/customers. 'Buckland' is the authority that, once there is a breach which goes to the 'root of the contract', the 'offender' cannot legally make things right without the permission of the person 'offended'. (Although, if no complaint has been made within a reasonable time, it could be held that there is an implicit acceptance of the situation).

& remember - everything in writing (emails are good, as long as they can be printed in hard copy). You will also need evidence/witnesses - write down an account of what happened - this can then be used as 'contemporaneous' evidence at some point in the future

Good luck

[CherryCup]

Re: Daughters Employer Doesn't Give Holiday Pay

Hi all thanks for your replies.

ACAS told me that the employer had the right to revoke the dismissal as it was said in temper.
They advised us that should my daughter feel threatened and uncomfortable to return to work then she would have to resign. She also said that we should go to the meeting.

We turned up, not a good meeting at all and it was all held within a corner of the pub, which was open with customers. I straight away stated that this is not the correct time nor place and was totally unprofessional. The employer lost her cool a few times and was told by her husband to stop it and be quiet. Even a local customer walked to the table to give his advice!! When I said that this was uncalled for and wrong she shouted at me that it was her business and he was her friend!!

As we were leaving she said that my daughter would get a written warning to which she refused to accept. The employers husband asked us to go back to sort things out on Friday before the pub opened.

As a parting shot the employer very sarcastically said that she had been on the phone to a solicitor and her accountant. She said I was correct about the holiday pay and that was now getting sorted and any money owing would be paid and as shes now getting it sorted we can't use that one against her.

Hindsight we should of never sat down at the table in the middle of the pub, as my daughter is now more humiliated than ever.

We acted on what was advised by ACAS.

Today we are going to speak to a solicitor.

[jen_br]

Re: Daughters Employer Doesn't Give Holiday Pay

yup go to cab too they can help acas bad advice im shocked.

If you are threatened by your employer you don't have to resign you need to be taking that employer to court!

and you can "use" the holiday pay if this person has an accountant and still not been paying holiday pay all this time what is her excuse?

[CherryCup]

Re: Daughters Employer Doesn't Give Holiday Pay

Hi Jen
I did not think that what ACAS told me was fair and expressed this to her but she was positive that it was correct.

As for the reasons regarding holiday pay, she claimed that she did not have to pay it as its a small business, and that side of things are dealt with her husband.

As I say she claims she's contacted her solicitor and accountant and its being sorted.

[CherryCup]

Re: Daughters Employer Doesn't Give Holiday Pay

Sorry should of added, she only did look into this when I told her I had spoken to ACAS and told her by law she has to pay my daughter and every other person that works there.

[billypre]

Re: Daughters Employer Doesn't Give Holiday Pay

I wouldn't take her word for it that she has sorted holiday pay.

[MrsD]

Re: Daughters Employer Doesn't Give Holiday Pay

Hi Cherrycup

I have a bit of experience in dealing with unreasonable employers and I think this woman is behaving like a lunatic because she has been proved wrong with the holiday pay. She now sees the fact that your daughter is pregnant as a perfect way to get rid of her. So NO she ain't about to get away with that. Its illegal and unethical (must say in my experience ethics very rarely come into it though) I would look carefully at jen's advice, it is illegal to discriminate against someone because they are pregnant, or have a medical problem(stress???).
EHRC - Contact us
these guys are great and they are not into mediation like ACAS, more the going for the jugular, give them a call and explain the whole situation to them and see what they come up with. bear in mind they are an addition to a solicitor, they can't represent you but can advise and provide the bullets so to speak.
Try not to worry and let us know what you come up with

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Daughters Employer Doesn't Give Holiday Pay

Hi Cherrycup

I have a bit of experience in dealing with unreasonable employers

No shit - you don't say!

* in one way, this is like a summer camp compared to your boss

[MrsD]

Re: Daughters Employer Doesn't Give Holiday Pay

a summer camp in the sun!!!

classic "how dare you prove me wrong, I'll get you now" syndrome

[pompeyfaith]

Re: Daughters Employer Doesn't Give Holiday Pay

Nice to see that CherryCup is getting plenty of help.

Thank you all

Regards

[oscar]

Re: Daughters Employer Doesn't Give Holiday Pay

I have a bit of experience in dealing with unreasonable employers

Maybe so, but I have the gold star where thats concerned. Bet yours was a piece of cake compared to the shower I used to work at/with

[CherryCup]

Re: Daughters Employer Doesn't Give Holiday Pay

Thank you all so very much for the help you are giving to my and my daughter.

We tried yesterday morning to seek some legal advice but most solicitors did not want to know as my daughters earning we not over 20k per year. Others would do a half hour advice for in the region of £60/£70.

We contacted CAB and luckily for us we were able to go straight up. We saw a lovely lady and she did her best to help with giving us advice.

She came up with three solutions.

1. For my daughter to return to work and continue until she is due to on to maternity leave.

2. To put in a grievance and resign. This would then effect her right to benefits as she left on her own accord. She could appeal but its up to a decision maker, which may not be work.

3. To go on the sick due to stress and to eek it out as much as possible, so my daughters maternity pay would not be in jeopardy.

She said that it is possible for an employer to revoke a dismissal.

However, if all this can be classed as harassment, then my daughter would not have to resign. For to go this route we would need proper legal advice.

She gave us the phone number of Newcastles Law Centre. We have tried several times yesterday and this morning. Telephones just ring.

I have today spoken to EHRC (thanks to Elevenssdopey). They say that it would be discrimination for implying my daughter in now incompetent due to her pregnancy. However due to the complexity of it all, the dismissal, holiday pay and more so no contract, the man was not sure if we could apply for an Employment Tribunal as there is no contract. Advised the same as CAB we need expert advice. He also suggested the Newcastle Law Centre.

Finally spoke to someone there and hopefully a solicitor is phoning us on Monday if not Tuesday. We are keeping everything crossed he can help us.

My daughter had a chat to our GP on the phone. He has said that it does sound as if she is stressed out and who can blame her. He's offered her advice on how to relax and on her health in general. She has got an appointment to see him on Monday with the view that he will issue a sick note, if her health is still the same.

Not knowing what do for the best till we get some legal advice I rang the pub to say my daughter in unwell due to stress and will not be in for any shift they had her down for this week and I will advise again next week.

[garlok]

Re: Daughters Employer Doesn't Give Holiday Pay

I have just read through this thread again and the whole thing stinks. The situation, the advice given by people at CAB, ACAS etc.

1. There are parts of the European Union Working Hours Directive which cannot be avoided by any employer and which have not been able to be avoided by our politicians and some of those regulations govern the payment of holiday pay even to temporary workers.
2. Under the Contracts of Employment Act and various Statutory Instruments stemming from it there has to be a contract of employment unless the worker is working for and is directly employed by a registered employment agency( in which case the contract will be with the agency) or the "employee" is in fact (like many technical jobs) a limited company in which case at the very least an implied contract under English Common Law of some sort will exist between the limited company and the employer.
3.We all belong to a compulsory club in the UK and its called currently the HMRC Club, whereby assessemnt for taxation and National Insurance contributions are compulsory also please note with the latter there is a very signifcant EMPLOYERS contirbution to be made which is why this lot are trying to evade the issues. They obviously are and have been evading paying this. Thsi is a serious criminal offence.
4. The excuse about "small businesses" is the biggest load of rot being spouted here. 2008 I think it was all the regulations changed and ALL please note ALL businesses, partnerships, self employed, agencies, clubs, associations, societies, voluntary organistaions and more were brought under the regulations and umbrella of the Corporation Tax Regulations. There is no escape. As there is food being served within and on the premises, the addition of VAT implications as to the conduct of the business also can be brought into question.

My advice is to use the anonymous reporting lines to the Inland Revenue and Customs that you suspect irregularities in the running and accounting procedures of this business. I can assure anyone reading this that the landlady concerned will not be able to get nasty with their investigators and she certianly won't like it. Excise enforcement officers in the UK are the most powerful law enforcement officers in the world and they have no second thoughts about locking people up until they have finished and they don't need a court to do it, even in this day and age.

Finally take a look at the law society website and they do have help areas to assist in finding a solicitor plus the Bar Association has the direct public access scheme wher you do all the legwork under the direction of a barrister but it does cost and then they do have a pro bono unit as well.

regards
Garlok

[CherryCup]

Re: Daughters Employer Doesn't Give Holiday Pay

Hi Garlok,

You may possibly answered some of the things my brotherinlaw was thinking about last night.

He was thinking how has anyone looking over the books never raised any queries as to why there has been no holiday leave paid.

You are right in saying the whole thing stinks, we certainly smelt a rat in the light of things.

Something that the employer said to my daughter at the meeting is what prompted my brotherinlaw to smell a rat also.

Employer has asked my daughter to look after the pub whilst they had a holiday within the next few weeks. However at the meeting she claimed that it was not a holiday and in fact they were going to get married, but would be now be unable to fund it!

There is a few other things that she claimed but I really don't want to post on here, just in case there is repercussions.