df1day UE Diary

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: df1day UE Diary

Pending Court Appearance

[size=5]Quote Hi please send the email again and clearly mark your username in the subject and a link within the email to this thread so I know it is you and won't miss it again (sorreee)....

Niddy, did you get the email I sent last Wednesday?
If the attachments are too large I can post links to photobucket on here.

I would like your expert opinion on the enforcability. A CAG member has his doubts. If it is enforcable I'll have to re-think my strategy. I have to submit my defence by 4 October (although I am trying to get that extended).

Your comments would be really appreciated.

Hiya, sorry for the delay - I tend to deal with emails once a week as I do get a lot. I'll check yours shortly ok?

Have you seen this, my new section, it shows some examples and what to look for - it also mentions a lot about s.18 CCA and also CPR so worth reading the whole thread (not too long) - you'll learn loads which will help you understand the finer points, for if you end up at a hearing....

---> viewtopic.php?f=13&t=401&start=0

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: df1day UE Diary

Ref - your email:

Ok, it is unenforceable, as per my recent thread here: ---> viewtopic.php?f=13&t=401&start=0 it is clear that the prescribed terms and the cancellation notice are not shown on page 1, which is where the agreement was signed.

They have never sent you pages 3&4 either so how do you know what these "terms" said? This means that as you were not made aware of your cancellation rights, nor were you ever sent a copy of the agreement in its entirety (all 4 pages) that at the time you signed the application form (page1) - you did not know the apr, the repayment terms nor did you know what the terms were...

That's how i'd be defending it..... as I say, if you see the examples shown here, you'll get a better idea: ---> viewtopic.php?p=12112#p12112

In my opinion, although yes it technically is enforceable (it does satisfy s.127 & s.78) it is not properly executed which means the lender would be relaint on a court order enforcing the debt - which it appears, they are trying to do.

Its going to be a sticky one, cos it would depend who presides over the hearing, if it is referred to Judge Waksman (like most are) then you'll lose, unfortunately - as he always refers to Rankine/Carey/McGuffick as presedents.... But it's worth a wee fight, cos it is definitely improperly executed which does put them in breach, it is how you argue this that matters - you need to be pointing out that those terms you agreed to on page were never forthcoming and as such they could have said *anything* - you never knew. ;-)

Best of luck..... If you're on CAG speak to johnwalton (think that is his name) as he has had a few court case successes.....

[df1day]

Re: df1day UE Diary

That's encouraging and what I had thought myself. I'm no expert, though and was a bit concerned when the Cagger had his doubts. He did advise to seek another opinion as he is a pessimist.

Re the cancellation notice. I had always thought that the reference to the cancellation notice on the signature page was a bit woolly
[size=5]"once you have signed this agreement, you will have for a short time a right to cancel it. Exact details of how and when you can do this will be sent to you by post by the creditor"

Has this ever been challenged? If they couldn't prove that they sent the required cancellation details "a short time" after the "agreement" was signed can it be enforcable?

But am I also arguing that this is an application form and not an agreement?

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: df1day UE Diary

That's encouraging and what I had thought myself. I'm no expert, though and was a bit concerned when the Cagger had his doubts. He did advise to seek another opinion as he is a pessimist.

Re the cancellation notice. I had always thought that the reference to the cancellation notice on the signature page was a bit woolly
[size=5]"once you have signed this agreement, you will have for a short time a right to cancel it. Exact details of how and when you can do this will be sent to you by post by the creditor"

Has this ever been challenged? If they couldn't prove that they sent the required cancellation details "a short time" after the "agreement" was signed can it be enforcable?

But am I also arguing that this is an application form and not an agreement?

Hiya

Regards to the cancellation notice - see this: http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/wirr ... pport5.htm & this: http://www.netlawman.co.uk/info/cancell ... eement.php

Not much in these links, but it does clearly spell out the cancellation rights - I quote

"the specific requirements imposed by sections 62, 63 and 64 of the 1974 Act in relation to cancellable agreements as regards supplying copies of the agreement before and after its execution and giving notice of the cancellation rights are not complied with. A cancellable agreement is an agreement which, by virtue of section 67 of the 1974 Act, may be cancelled by the debtor or hirer, essentially where oral representations about the agreement have been made to the debtor or hirer face-to-face before the agreement is made other than on the business premises of the creditor or owner or connected persons and where the agreement is not secured on land."

See this (The Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regs 1983) - towards the end of the pdf for details of proper cancellation notices.....

Regards to the Cagger - what was their username, out of interest?

[df1day]

Re: df1day UE Diary

Thanks, Niddy. I'll check out those links.

The Cagger in question is seriously fed up.

Another question, if you don't mind. Your comments, in part, are based on the missing pages 3 and 4. If the solicitors now have, or find, the original including all 4 pages will that affect my argument. I am trying to get them to declare whether they have the original but CPR doesn't apply in Scotland. Instead there is an Incidental Application which has to be made via the court which I am currently exploring.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: df1day UE Diary

Thanks, Niddy. I'll check out those links.

The Cagger in question is seriously fed up.

Another question, if you don't mind. Your comments, in part, are based on the missing pages 3 and 4. If the solicitors now have, or find, the original including all 4 pages will that affect my argument. I am trying to get them to declare whether they have the original but CPR doesn't apply in Scotland. Instead there is an Incidental Application which has to be made via the court which I am currently exploring.

Hiya, I know the cagger and yep - he's a pessimist alright (but does know his stuff)..... we had pt2537 from CAG join (Paul.) but he has been quiet lately.... may be worth sending a PM to steven (site team) as he's clued up too.

Regards to CPR - arghh, forgot you were over the border, bummer! That would have had them by the knackers - cos they HAVE to declare if they have a copy. Bloomin Scottish law eh? Always caught me out when I was "legally" aloud to get wasted at 16 so long as I was out with an adult! Great, my bro is 2yrs older so we used to have a great time growing up in sunny-stirling

If they find the missing pages then case would be put on hold whilst you inspect them and amend your defence, however you'd still be arguing that the agreement is indeed unenforceable and quote a lot of the acts mentioned in the links I gave earlier....

[df1day]

Re: df1day UE Diary

Update

Barclaycard Loan (£3000 outstanding)
Confirmed as enforceable by Niddy, but was expected, as I had a copy of the original loan agreement which looked to contain the prescribed terms.

Passed to CDCS by Barclaycard.

30 June Offer F&F of 10% made. Not accepted.
15 August. Offer increased (13%). No response.
10 Sep “Notice of Legal Action” from Debt Managers (may word used a lot!)
21 Sep Further Letter from Debt Managers “Settlement Opportunity”

30 Sep I sent Debt Managers a letter pointing out my circumstances and stating that they had refused my last offer and could only afford £3 pw which would take 20 years to repay.

4 Oct Received a letter from Russel & Aitken solicitors threatening Court Action.

11 Oct Debt Managers replied. They have accepted my offer to repay at £3 pw and sent me giro slips to complete. Not what I wanted but how do I play this?

[df1day]

Re: df1day UE Diary

Update as at 11 Oct

Hbos £4700)
Status – enforceable

21 April CCA request
29 April CCA received – deemed enforceable as taken out after 2007
10 May Letter from Blair Oliver Scott.- Notice of Intended Court Action
1 June Letter from Wescot – contact us
7 June F&F offer (£1000) made to Wescot
18 June Wescot decline offer – minimum required £3500 in partial settlement
30 June Final offer from me - £1100. All I can afford! (Niddy said I went in too high initially!
5 July Wescot again. Phone us to discuss payment arrangement
9 July Replied to Wescot. Sorry, don’t discuss financial arrangements on phone and £1100 was really my final offer.
9 August Letter from Nelson Scott Solicitors. Pay in 10 days or else. Told them Wescot had received an improved offer.
23 August Income and Expenditure form from Wescot

30 Sep At your suggestion, wrote to Wescot pointing out that it would take 30 years to repay at the amount I could afford and they should reconsider my F&F offer
7 Oct Formal Demand For Payment from Robinson Way

11 Oct Letter from Wescot saying they had passed correspondence back to their client. No reference to my last letter

Seems it is now with Robinson Way. Why would Wescot get rid so quickly and how should I now respond to Robinson Way?

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: df1day UE Diary

11 Oct Debt Managers replied. They have accepted my offer to repay at £3 pw and sent me giro slips to complete. Not what I wanted but how do I play this? [/color]

What offer did you make again? It may be worth to re-send that letter with a copy of theirs and say, I would rather pay the larger offer in settlement as £3 per month is a little silly......

As for £3pw - refuse it, you will offer £1 per month for infinity - or they accept the larger offer. See what that does ;30

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: df1day UE Diary

Update as at 11 Oct

Hbos £4700)
11 Oct Letter from Wescot saying they had passed correspondence back to their client. No reference to my last letter .... Seems it is now with Robinson Way. Why would Wescot get rid so quickly and how should I now respond to Robinson Way?[/color]

Just wait and see what comes, things may cross in the post! 1

[df1day]

Re: df1day UE Diary

Update at 28 October
Hbos £4700)
Status – enforceable

21 April CCA request
29 April CCA received – deemed enforceable as taken out after 2007
10 May Letter from Blair Oliver Scott.- Notice of Intended Court Action
1 June Letter from Wescot – contact us
7 June F&F offer (£1000) made to Wescot
18 June Wescot decline offer – minimum required £3500 in partial settlement
30 June Final offer from me - £1100. All I can afford! (Niddy said I went in too high initially!
5 July Wescot again. Phone us to discuss payment arrangement
9 July Replied to Wescot. Sorry, don’t discuss financial arrangements on phone and £1100 was really my final offer.
9 August Letter from Nelson Scott Solicitors. Pay in 10 days or else. Told them Wescot had received an improved offer.
23 August Income and Expenditure form from Wescot

30 Sep At your suggestion, wrote to Wescot pointing out that it would take 30 years to repay at the amount I could afford and they should reconsider my F&F offer
7 Oct Formal Demand For Payment from Robinson Way

11 Oct Letter from Wescot saying they had passed correspondence back to their client. No reference to my last letter

15 October Sent letter to Robinson Way with F&F £1200, or I could pay £3 pw for next 30 years

28 October Reply from Robinson way asking me for salary details, other debts, where is the F&F money coming from etc. All information already advised in my letter to them.
Response, Niddy?

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: df1day UE Diary

Update at 28 October
Hbos £4700)
Status – enforceable

28 October Reply from Robinson way asking me for salary details, other debts, where is the F&F money coming from etc. All information already advised in my letter to them.
Response, Niddy?[/color]

Just send a copy of the last letter again, with a copy of their letter to you and add a cover letter saying read the attached! 1 1

[df1day]

Re: df1day UE Diary

Update at 24 November
Hbos £4700)
Status – enforceable

28 October Reply from Robinson way asking me for salary details, other debts, where is the F&F money coming from etc. All information already advised in my letter to them.
Response, Niddy?[/color]
Just send a copy of the last letter again, with a copy of their letter to you and add a cover letter saying read the attached!
Eventually received a reply from Robinson Way following phonecalls and standard letter/threats. They have been advised by their client that my offer of F&F £1200 is not acceptable.
I have already explained this is all I can afford, enclosed copy pay slips proving this, and that they may have to accept £1 a month for eternity.
What next?

[df1day]

Re: df1day UE Diary

Update at 24 Nov
Barclaycard 1 (£6600)
21 April CCA requested
23 April Terms and Conditions received
11 May CCA reminder sent
2 June Debtors final response sent to Barclaycard
Passed to Credit Solutions
11 June Formal Demand for payment from Credit Solutions
Power2 Collect also become involved
27 June Refusal to accept unenforcability sent to Credit Solutions

2 July Nonsense letter, spouting ill-informed rubbish, from Credit Solutions
13 July Generous offer” letter from Credit Solutions. “Contact Deal Maker”
This followed a series of nonsense letters from both Credit Solutions and Power2Contact. Sent Account sold template
7 Sep Letter from Credit Solutions. Referred back to Barclaycard
28 Sep Moorcroft now involved. Formal demand etc
20 Nov Moorcroft - Old T&C letter from BC enclosed.....14 days to pay...further action....

What should I send? Account sold template?

[df1day]

Re: df1day UE Diary

Update at 24 Nov
Barclaycard Loan (£3000 outstanding)
Confirmed as enforceable by Niddy, but was expected, as I had a copy of the original loan agreement which looked to contain the prescribed terms.

Passed to CDCS by Barclaycard.

30 June Offer F&F of 10% made. Not accepted.
15 August. Offer increased (13%). No response.
10 Sep “Notice of Legal Action” from Debt Managers (may word used a lot!)
21 Sep Further Letter from Debt Managers “Settlement Opportunity”

30 Sep I sent Debt Managers a letter pointing out my circumstances and stating that they had refused my last offer and could only afford £3 pw which would take 20 years to repay.

4 Oct Received a letter from Russel & Aitken solicitors threatening Court Action.

11 Oct Debt Managers replied. They have accepted my offer to repay at £3 pw and sent me giro slips to complete. Not what I wanted but how do I play this?

Wrote back saying, on reflection, I couldn't afford £3pw and suggested £1 pm. They accepted! So have no real option but to pay them. Presumably they'll be back sometime but I'll deal with it when they do. Got the more pressing issue of a coming court appearance