Night Monkey's diary

[Roger]

Thanks, SW & Roger.

I was just about to post a question that I suspect has been answered already. Presumably a 'holding' identity - in this case PRA - has to follow the full assignment process when moving purchased debts between internal companies and can't just give ownership away by a simple declaration? If so then every time they do it they make it harder for themselves to pursue any perceived claim.

Each Company is a separate and legal entity in its own right! Thats how Corporate Groups work.
Financial Services Register | FCA
PRA Group (UK) Limited
Reference number: 718645
KH3 1HA Kilmarnock
PRA Group (UK) Limited (fca.org.uk)
Debt Administration

Debt-collecting

Exercising or having the right to exercise the lender's rights and duties in relation to high-cost short-term credit

Exercising/having right to exercise lender's rights and duties under a regulated credit agreement (excluding high-cost short-term credit, bill of sale agreement, and home collected credit agreement)

BUT
PRA Group (UK) Limited
Reference number: 710004
BR1 1LT Bromley
This firm is no longer registered with the FCA as an Appointed Representative of an authorised firm, and can no longer carry on regulated activities.
Do not start to do regulated business with an AR that is no longer registered.

Confusing isn't it So who was Assigned the Debts originally .

At this moment PRA Group UK Portfolios Ltd. doesn't appear on the FCA register!

Hence the question of Assign!

[Night Monkey]

I've now started getting daily calls from an 0333 number, which 'whocalledme' sites flag negatively as being debt collection or scam but more interestingly one says is a 'solicitor' by the name of Overdales working on behalf of Lowell, whom HSBC sold my accounts to. It looks like they've entered the new year with renewed vigour.

Whoever it is, the calls aren't getting answered any time soon.

[Still Waving]

If they are so desperate to contact you, they will just have to put it in writing. Correct move.

[Night Monkey]

And it looks like Google's intimation was correct. I now have two letters in the same envelope, one from Lowell saying that they have instructed Overdales Solicitors to recover the outstanding balance from an HSBC credit card (~£5.5k) and a 'Notice of Acting' from Overdales themselves.

The latter states that they have been instructed to recover the outstanding balance and that they have 'been instructed to initiate legal proceedings' against me unless I pay the full amount or come to a payment agreement. The rest of the letter estimates the additional costs from any legal action (court fees, costs, interest (?), etc.) which would add some £900 to the bill but also indulges in a lot of conditional statements - If I fail to make a payment or contact them, if proceedings are issued, a CCJ may be entered against me. There is no mention of a timescale in which I should respond to avoid these consequences.

I have no intention of replying at the moment, but can I ask if the Overdales letter can be considered a Letter Before Action? I tend to think not due to the number of conditional paragraphs and no time limit but it does also specifically state that they have been instructed to request a CCJ.

Are there any strict requirements for an LBA that are either present or missing from the above?

[Night Monkey]

And Roger, your comment here on Linnite's diary regarding the various Lowell companies was a timely one for me, so thanks for that :-)

[Still Waving]

And it looks like Google's intimation was correct. I now have two letters in the same envelope, one from Lowell saying that they have instructed Overdales Solicitors to recover the outstanding balance from an HSBC credit card (~£5.5k) and a 'Notice of Acting' from Overdales themselves.

The latter states that they have been instructed to recover the outstanding balance and that they have 'been instructed to initiate legal proceedings' against me unless I pay the full amount or come to a payment agreement. The rest of the letter estimates the additional costs from any legal action (court fees, costs, interest (?), etc.) which would add some £900 to the bill but also indulges in a lot of conditional statements - If I fail to make a payment or contact them, if proceedings are issued, a CCJ may be entered against me. There is no mention of a timescale in which I should respond to avoid these consequences.

I have no intention of replying at the moment, but can I ask if the Overdales letter can be considered a Letter Before Action? I tend to think not due to the number of conditional paragraphs and no time limit but it does also specifically state that they have been instructed to request a CCJ.

Are there any strict requirements for an LBA that are either present or missing from the above?

See this link for detail of information which must be included in a LBA - scroll down to "What does a letter before action have to contain?"
https://askewslegal.co/insights/debt...before-action/

It does say that a deadline for payment must be included, which you say Overdales have not included. Read their letter carefully just to be sure. Nevertheless, the purpose of a LBA is to convince a debtor to pay - https://www.saunders.co.uk/services/...before-action/

In order to comply with the Pre-Action Protocol, a letter should include a multi-page questionnaire for your response to the claim. Was there one?

[Night Monkey]

It does say that a deadline for payment must be included, which you say Overdales have not included. Read their letter carefully just to be sure.

I have read it several times, convinced that I'd missed it. There aren't any time restraints on a required response.

In order to comply with the Pre-Action Protocol, a letter should include a multi-page questionnaire for your response to the claim. Was there one?

No, it was a simple one-pager.

Nevertheless, the purpose of a LBA is to convince a debtor to pay - https://www.saunders.co.uk/services/...before-action/

Indeed. I suspect it's been carefully drafted to edge right up to an LBA without actually being one to give them as much future wiggle room as possible while scaring me into action.

Standing orders maintained, no further action unless a real letter arrives.

[Still Waving]

Indeed. I suspect it's been carefully drafted to edge right up to an LBA without actually being one to give them as much future wiggle room as possible while scaring me into action.

Standing orders maintained, no further action unless a real letter arrives.

Bear that omission in mind, all the same.

[Night Monkey]

Bear that omission in mind, all the same.

Yes, it will be interesting to see how this plays out.

[Kenny91]

Hi there,

In case it helps, I had the exact same situation with Lowell Portfolio 1 Ltd for a debt a couple of summers ago.

The Letter of Acting from Overdales Solicitors arrived one week, then the following week the actual Letter of Claim (LoC) turned up.

I won't put the exact dates of issue, but there was just under 10 days between the pair, so you should probably brace yourself for the LoC as it's likely incoming.

I then had 30 days to respond, which I did, and then Overdales bounced it back to Lowell as the creditor failed to provide the Default Notice from over a decade ago.

My claim was for less than a grand fwiw, but Overdales wanted to add an extra 30% in legal fees/costs.

Best of luck!

K91

[Night Monkey]

Thanks Kenny91 , that's a great help. Can I ask how you responded - did you fill in their forms (if they sent any), or just flood them with a request for documentation?

[Still Waving]

From your diary -

"29.9.19 Finally sent CCA request, using one of the returned postal orders :-)
11.10.19 Received a hand-addressed letter today, presumably from HSBC, containing my letter requesting a CCA and the postal order. No covering letter, no compliments slip, nothing else at all."

Just to check , was the request sent to HSBC, was this PO made out to HSBC, and was it still in date at the time?
Consequently, you have never had a proper response to your request?

I would be inclined to get a Subject Access Request off to HSBC right away, to find out if the compliant documentation could be available to Lowell/Overdales.

[Kenny91]

Thanks Kenny91 , that's a great help. Can I ask how you responded - did you fill in their forms (if they sent any), or just flood them with a request for documentation?

Yes, the LoC pack had 2-3 pages of basic questions that I filled in and sent back to them recorded delivery within 7-10 days.

The LoC had plenty of red ink and said if no response in 30 days, a claim would be issued. If you get a LoC, you'll notice it for sure.

Also, the associated Overdales cover letter had a second page that starts with the "Background to the Debt", basically all the dates and balances etc from when it was opened.

In my returned reply (and thanks to Roger who had listed on an old thread what to request), I asked for: Copy of the credit agreement including T&Cs; Statement; Notice of Assignment and DN - it was only the failure of the latter that derailed their attempts.

It took them about two months to respond with everything but the DN, then a further two months for Overdales to confirm the DN was unavailable and then a couple more weeks for Lowell to lick their wounds on their dud purchase before saying: "We understand you may need some time before discussing your account because of your circumstances."

Not heard a peep from them since, though they are emailing every couple of weeks on another account which I half expected to feature a LoC over Xmas as seems they take pleasure in messing up people's festivities.

For the record, I never SAR'd the original creditor.

Cheers,

K91

[Night Monkey]

Consequently, you have never had a proper response to your request?

Correct, I received nothing as a result of my initial request for a copy of the CCA.

I would be inclined to get a Subject Access Request off to HSBC right away, to find out if the compliant documentation could be available to Lowell/Overdales.

I sent off a GDPR request after the accounts were sold to Lowell, and apparently I received the results via secure email. Bizarrely I somehow missed this when the results arrived but found it this evening while looking for the original request. I therefore have yet to update the diary and am in the process of going through it properly.

Initial perusal indicates that I have a default notice but I can find no trace of a CCA. I do vaguely remember discussing a credit card application over the phone and the memory of the workplace I did that from indicates that it would have been around 2005; I have no recollection of signing anything but they may have subsequently sent a completed form.

I'm currently minded to wait for Lowell's next move while I take copious notes of what's in the GDPR files, and put Colin's number on speed dial.

[Still Waving]

There should be something in the bundle which indicates approximately when the account was taken out, eg copy statements.