Night Monkey's diary

[Warwick65]

Just to add- everyone’s situation is different, I rented and had no assets but for me, the option of paying nominal payments for ever and still possibly getting a claim was just too much to bear. Also all my debts were older although a few were 2010-2012 and they are long since statute barred.

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

Type of account - MBNA credit card
Date commenced - Approx 2012
Approx balance - £9325
Date last paid - Early 2018
Are you on arrangement or not paying - DMP with StepChange
Status - default
Account owner - PRA Group (UK) Ltd.

17.8.19 Requested CCA details
22.8.19 Received letter returning £1 postal order 'as a gesture of goodwill'
Say they have requested the required information and placed account on hold (therefore ceasing collections)
Enclosed CCA consumer factsheet
11.9.19 - Received letter from PRA enclosing generic terms and conditions and a statement dated 10.11.18 giving a balance of £9861.43 and an equal charge-off adjustment totaling £0.00, together with the previous statement showing a credit of £76.54 - presumably the last one I made. Also shows arrears of £1244.92.
More interestingly the letter states that pending receipt of further documents the debt is currently deemed unenforceable (!) which means they are unable to take court action against us, etc. It points out that the debt has not been written off and they are free to contact us, pass on our details to a third party and continue to report the account with credit reference bureaux.
9.11.19 Received letter from PRA group stating current balance is £8937.58 and enclosing 'copy documents as requested'. This consists of a readable 'Pre-contractual Explanation Sheet' and two pages of very small type which is apparently pre-contractual credit information (about four pages shrunk to one sheet) and a credit card agreement, just about readable but including some personal details. Sent to Niddy for an opinion.
18.11.19 Deemed enforceable. Boo.
@Di - Can you advise regarding the validity of the default notice? Unlikely that there's an issue, but you never know.
12.12.19 Received statement of account from PRA, showing a current balance of £8859.25.

I've just seen your update on this ex-MBNA debt and I have a few questions

If the account wasn't defaulted until 2018 is it showing on your current CRA file?

I can't see when this debt was assigned to PRA by MBNA which may be relevant, so when was that?

Why don't you send a Subject Access Request to MBNA so you've got all the data they hold on your old account. This should also include any interaction between PRA and MBNA noted in the Transaction Log, which can be illuminating.

There's more to enforceability of a debt than just the credit agreement.

Di

[Night Monkey]

If the account wasn't defaulted until 2018 is it showing on your current CRA file?

I'll check that and get back to you...

I can't see when this debt was assigned to PRA by MBNA which may be relevant, so when was that?

I have a default notice dated 4.9.18 - I've located some additional correspondence and added that to the original diary in red.

Why don't you send a Subject Access Request to MBNA so you've got all the data they hold on your old account.

I will do just that and update as & when.

Thanks.

[Night Monkey]

In summary, to avoid anyone having to page back:

17.8.19 Requested CCA details
20.8.18 Received letter acknowledging our difficulties and accepting payment of £79pm. Reduced interest to 0%pa and waive future penalties
22.8.19 Received letter returning £1 postal order 'as a gesture of goodwill'
Say they have requested the required information and placed account on hold (therefore ceasing collections)
Enclosed CCA consumer factsheet
4.9.18 Received default notice from MBNA, balance at this point £9937.97
3.1.19 Letter from MBNA stating that they have sold the debt to PRA Group (UK) Ltd.
3.1.19 Letter from PRA stating that they have purchased our debt with effect from 20.12.18
11.9.19 - Received letter from PRA enclosing generic terms and conditions and a statement dated 10.11.18 giving a balance of £9861.43 and an equal charge-off adjustment totaling £0.00, together with the previous statement showing a credit of £76.54 - presumably the last one I made. Also shows arrears of £1244.92.

The MBNA debt also appears on my CRA file, defaulting circa October '18 depending on which agency is reporting.

Interestingly I also have seven defaults rather than the five I was expecting, one a second HSBC account that they closed on me with a £108 unauthorised overdraft which slipped my mind in the larger events unfolding.

The Barclaycard appears to be reported twice, once as Barclaycard with minimal (if any) details, and once as PRA (UK) Ltd.

Should I bother with a CCA request for the second HSBC account given that they completely ignored me with the other one, and do I need to be concerned about the duplicate report?

[Never-In-Doubt]

Regards the duplicate, it may show twice but it must continue. Let me use an example to help explain.

let's say you were originally defaulted by BANK on 1st Jan 2015. They then sold the debt to a DCA who took over reporting on 1st July 2018. Your credit file should show the BANK entry until June 2018 and be zero'd off so show a balance of £0 and a status as settled. The new entry From the DCA should begin July 2018 and show the same original balance that used to show on the BANK record, however they'll be reporting the monthly D / status 6 marker now, the bank entry literally ceases to report.

The same debt cannot be defaulted and live reporting twice. Ordinarily I'd help you get it removed but with so many others it's not worth it just yet and may wake sleeping dogs and all that!

To recap, in your case - the original Barclaycard entry should show as settled. The status is the only key point.

[Night Monkey]

Type of account - MBNA credit card
Date commenced - Approx 2012
Approx balance - £9325
Date last paid - Early 2018
Are you on arrangement or not paying - DMP with StepChange
Status - default
Account owner - PRA Group (UK) Ltd.

18.11.19 Deemed enforceable. Boo.

30.1.20 Finally sent off GDPR request

And now we have it. A package containing a covering letter and sections labeled:

1. Information held on Customer Notes
2. The information attached has been provided by our Credit Card Department
   1. this is the CCA already deemed enforceable
3. Information held by our Telephony Department
   1. Two screenshots of an EDGE Client app
4. A copy of Credit Card Statements
5. The information attached has been provided by our Card Services Department
   1. Towards the end of this I can see a 'sold to PRA' entry dated 11.12.18, balance at sale £9785

My first observation is that my current balance with PRA/MBNA is £8780, so they've already had just over £1000 from us. I wonder if they're in profit yet?

So, what do I do now - am I looking for anything in particular?

[Night Monkey]

Current state of play:

• Five debts currently totalling £31778
• Paying £308 per month via StepChange DMP
• One debt, MBNA currently with PRA, stands at £8700 and has been deemed enforceable
  • Paying £78pm towards this
• Four creditors either ignored CCA request or did not supply one

The compensation claim is moving as apace as these things tend to do and, I hope, nearing conclusion.

We now feel more in control of the situation and are about to pull the plug and 'self-manage' the DMP, probably as soon as a new job situation settles down. That will give us the £300pm as a backup if things go awry, and we'll see what comes.

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

And now we have it. A package containing a covering letter and sections labeled:[*]Towards the end of this I can see a 'sold to PRA' entry dated 11.12.18, balance at sale £9785


So, what do I do now - am I looking for anything in particular?

You don't need to do anything now but I would be looking for 'inaccuracies' such as the PRA Notice of Assignment which states the debt was sold to them "with effect from" 20th December 2018, but the SAR entry suggests the debt was "sold to PRA" on or before 11th December 2018.

The devil is always in the detail.

Type of account - MBNA credit card
Date commenced - Approx 2012
Approx balance - £9325
Date last paid - Early 2018
Are you on arrangement or not paying - DMP with StepChange
Status - default
Account owner - PRA Group (UK) Ltd.

. . . .

3.1.19 Letter from MBNA stating that they have sold the debt to PRA Group (UK) Ltd.
3.1.19 Letter from PRA stating that they have purchased our debt with effect from 20.12.18

. . . .
6.2.20 Received letter confirming my SAR, promise to send it by 3rd march 2020
13.2.20 Received results of GDPR request, see page 3 post dated 15.2.20

Di

[Night Monkey]

Cheers Di, that's a good spot.

If/when we do pull the plug, should we keep paying the (possibly) enforceable MBNA debt in the hope of negotiating a full & final settlement, or stop everything & deal with the fallout as it comes?

All comments welcome, I of course accept that any decision to stop the DMP payments is ours alone, along with any repercussions.

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

If/when we do pull the plug, should we keep paying the (possibly) enforceable MBNA debt in the hope of negotiating a full & final settlement, or stop everything & deal with the fallout as it comes?

I'm not in a position to give debt advice, but I am aware that if you are paying a debt purchaser they are less likely to accept a F & F since they are happy to collect thousands and thousands of pounds effortlessly each month without the potential expense and risk of losing if they litigate.

DMPs set up by charities are a way of outsourcing their debt collection activities in a seemingly respectable way.

Di

[nightwatch]

if you decide to go self managed you normaly stop all payment's, but you would need to ask your DMC for an upto date staement of the account(s).
You will also need to send them a SAR, then you can find out who owns the debts and if they have been passed to any other companys that you haven't been informed of.
when you stop payment's you will be bombarded by phone calls, resist the urge to talk to them on the phone, every thing in writing,
some will contact you as soon as they know you have stopped dealing through a DMC,
others may take a while to notice.
during this time the money you would be paying out can be put to one side, this is a back up fund for any that get stroppy.

as has been said, some DMC's are not as impartial as they seem, some are given donations by the very company's you are in debt with, so it helps them to get a good payment from you.

most of the companys you owe to will eventually send a letter asking for you to make/ set up, a repayment plan,it will give you details of who owns the debt, what is owing, also it may contain the date they took over the debt,
they will send an I&E form, you do not need to fill this in, if you wish to pay them anything, you offer them xx amount stating that is all you can afford at that time.

Any that you have sent a CCA to that have not replied or are UE , can be filed away for now, but please up date your diary so we can keep on top of anything that may need advice.
any still with the original lender, will need nerves of steel at the outset, or they may sell it on ASAP when payment's stop, this is when you can sometimes get a good F&F from the purchaser, but may take awhile.

Any Questions??

NW x

[Night Monkey]

@NW - No questions at all at the moment thanks, I think we just need to bite the bullet.

And sending an SAR to StepChange is a brilliant idea, I'll do that this weekend.

@Di -

DMPs set up by charities are a way of outsourcing their debt collection activities in a seemingly respectable way.

is a sobering insight - thanks for that.


Onwards & upwards ...

[Night Monkey]

Sent GDPR request to StepChange, let's see what that brings.

I'm quite looking forward to that, actually.

[Warwick65]

I think many people forget that these so called charities are funded by providers and purchasers. It is part of their due diligence in treating customers fairly which they have to prove to get a licence. So it’s not charity but a cost of doing business.

That said, for some people they be useful particularly if the level of debt is causing mental health problems. Use them to get it all set up then do it yourself. Use and abuse them.

[Night Monkey]

Use them to get it all set up then do it yourself. Use and abuse them.

This, more by luck than judgement, seems to be our current plan .