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  • #16
    If you want to , you can cancel your DMP with step chnge, they will not suspend payment's, they do not recognise UE, it is Pay or leave,
    Yes put money aside in case needed further down the line,
    Wescot may be collecting for Santander,
    If debt's are stll held by original lenders, there is little chance of a low F&F, also while still paying they are reluctant to negotiate a F&F, why would they if you will pay for xx amount of years,
    stop paying and they panic, you will receive lot's of call's (dont talk over the phone with them) some "nice" letters, just post on here when you do and we can see where to go from there,

    NW
    I'm an official AAD Moderator and also a volunteer, here to help make the forum run smoothly. Any views or opinions are mine and not the official line of AAD. Similarly, any advice I have offered you is done so on an informal basis, without prejudice or liability. If in doubt seek advice from a qualified insured professional - Find a Solicitor or go to the National Probono Centre.

    If you spot an abusive or libellous post then please report it by Clicking Here. If you need to contact me, for instance if I've issued you a warning, moved, edited or deleted your post, please send me a message by clicking my username.

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    • #17
      So far I've requested three CCAs, received none and have one confirmation of non-enforceability from PRA. I need to request one from HSBC and also send something to HSBC regarding an overdraft - can anyone tell me what?

      While I confirm the legal situation with each debt I'm minded to let the payments continue via StepChange until the pending compensation is settled, at which point I'll go for a full & final settlement where possible; if this continues much beyond Christmas I may reassess. I'm not sure that I want to rattle any cages just yet.

      Comment


      • #18
        HI NM,
        to continue to pay is your choice.
        the overdraft is covered by the same CCA , so pop them in the post and see what happens
        I'm an official AAD Moderator and also a volunteer, here to help make the forum run smoothly. Any views or opinions are mine and not the official line of AAD. Similarly, any advice I have offered you is done so on an informal basis, without prejudice or liability. If in doubt seek advice from a qualified insured professional - Find a Solicitor or go to the National Probono Centre.

        If you spot an abusive or libellous post then please report it by Clicking Here. If you need to contact me, for instance if I've issued you a warning, moved, edited or deleted your post, please send me a message by clicking my username.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Night Monkey View Post
          So far I've requested three CCAs, received none and have one confirmation of non-enforceability from PRA. I need to request one from HSBC and also send something to HSBC regarding an overdraft - can anyone tell me what?

          While I confirm the legal situation with each debt I'm minded to let the payments continue via StepChange until the pending compensation is settled, at which point I'll go for a full & final settlement where possible; if this continues much beyond Christmas I may reassess. I'm not sure that I want to rattle any cages just yet.

          Hello

          I see you've asked a question on another thread here >


          Originally posted by Night Monkey View Post

          Can anyone say if this a bad idea for any reason beyond being more expensive in the long run? I'm in a similar situation, still paying acknowledged UE debts via StepChange until I have funding to make some F&F settlement offers - like you I'm reluctant to 'light the blue touchpaper' until I'm in a position to respond with more than 'go away'.

          Every situation is different so I thought it best to answer your question on your own thread.

          Are there any updates on any of your debts before I make my suggestions?

          Di
          Legal Disclaimer

          I am a Litigation Executive at Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specialises in consumer credit. If you need to contact me you can send a message by clicking on my username or by emailing me at di@joannaconnollysolicitors.co.uk or by telephoning 0330 053 9340. Our initial advice is always free.

          Any posts I make on the AAD Consumer Forum are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide on the forum is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Diana Mayhew View Post
            Are there any updates on any of your debts before I make my suggestions?
            Hi

            No major updates, in brief we have five debts. I've requested five CCAs, received none, have one confirmation of non-enforceability from PRA (which may cover two of them) and a 'thank you' from Wescot, a letter returned without comment regarding an HSBC credit card and no response regarding an HSBC overdraft.

            I'm expecting some compensation early next year (Easter?) and am minded to let things lie until I can make offers and hopefully make it all go away. I'm just concerned that me continuing to pay muddies the water somehow, in an acknowledging-the-debt kind of way?

            Cheers, and thanks for your time.

            Comment


            • #21
              Sometimes you wont get a reply, Sometimes you do and often times it can be months down the line etc. As long as you have sent the CCA request, With the £1 payment and ideally have sent it recorded delivery ( so you have proof it got there) then it doesn't matter really whether they reply of not, You are afforded the protections under the Consumer Credit Act in respect of S78 requests.

              Its obviously helpful if they reply to your CCA request with a load of garbage as it is quite easy to judge your position. If the reply back is unenforceable, and if you wish to follow the UE route - You would need to stop paying and keep any creditors at bay for 6 years ( 5 in Scotland) until the debt becomes Statute Barred. ( I am sure you already know some of that )

              If you get no reply to your CCA request, Then the debt is Unenforceable until such times they can correctly comply with your request. Sometimes they can, sometimes they cannot - This is where it gets a bit more complicated and you have to decide whether to stop payments and see how it proceeds or continue paying.

              It can feel against the grain etc but its the only way to use the UE route. Anybody who has been through it, Has been in the very same position. I remember when I first stopped payments for the first time, It was a slightly scary time and required a leap of faith - I took it, 6 years down the line here I am with all debts Statute barred - A bit of fun and games along the way - But around £70K of debt gone. It was crippling me and made me feel terrible. Those 6 years have absolutely flown by honestly

              You must remember, For every month you make a payment, That's another month off being Statute Barred - Each payment is technically acknowledging the debt ( As you say) but don't worry about that point too much. The road to a debt being Statute Barred will only start when payment stops

              I appreciate you may be thinking of making offers to settle when you get some funds etc - But answer me this, Why would you want to make offers on a debt when it may well be unenforceable? If it is Unenforceable then you wont be paying anything and can have a nice Holiday instead

              See how you go first - Keep that money safe as a backup plan
              Last edited by Spud; 14th October 2019, 23:40.
              I'm an official AAD Moderator and also a volunteer, here to help make the forum run smoothly. Any views or opinions are mine and not the official line of AAD. Similarly, any advice I have offered you is done so on an informal basis, without prejudice or liability. If in doubt seek advice from a qualified insured professional - Find a Solicitor or go to the National Probono Centre.

              If you spot an abusive or libellous post then please report it by Clicking Here. If you need to contact me, for instance if I've issued you a warning, moved, edited or deleted your post, please send me a message by clicking my username.

              Comment


              • #22
                I've received a letter from PRA group stating that the current balance is £8937.58 and enclosing 'copy documents as requested'. This consists of a readable 'Pre-contractual Explanation Sheet' and two pages of very small type which is apparently pre-contractual credit information (about four pages shrunk to one sheet) and a credit card agreement, just about readable but including some personal details. Do I scan this as best I can and send to Niddy for an opinion?

                Comment


                • #23
                  yes please, if poss put a link to this diary aswell, no need to cross anything out, only nidd sees it
                  I'm an official AAD Moderator and also a volunteer, here to help make the forum run smoothly. Any views or opinions are mine and not the official line of AAD. Similarly, any advice I have offered you is done so on an informal basis, without prejudice or liability. If in doubt seek advice from a qualified insured professional - Find a Solicitor or go to the National Probono Centre.

                  If you spot an abusive or libellous post then please report it by Clicking Here. If you need to contact me, for instance if I've issued you a warning, moved, edited or deleted your post, please send me a message by clicking my username.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Night Monkey View Post
                    Type of account - MBNA credit card
                    Date commenced - Approx 2012
                    Approx balance - £9325
                    Date last paid - Early 2018
                    Are you on arrangement or not paying - DMP with StepChange
                    Status - default
                    Account owner - PRA Group (UK) Ltd.

                    17.8.19 Requested CCA details
                    22.8.19 Received letter returning £1 postal order 'as a gesture of goodwill'
                    Say they have requested the required information and placed account on hold (therefore ceasing collections)
                    Enclosed CCA consumer factsheet
                    11.9.19 - Received letter from PRA enclosing generic terms and conditions and a statement dated 10.11.18 giving a balance of £9861.43 and an equal charge-off adjustment totaling £0.00, together with the previous statement showing a credit of £76.54 - presumably the last one I made. Also shows arrears of £1244.92.
                    More interestingly the letter states that pending receipt of further documents the debt is currently deemed unenforceable (!) which means they are unable to take court action against us, etc. It points out that the debt has not been written off and they are free to contact us, pass on our details to a third party and continue to report the account with credit reference bureaux.
                    9.11.19 Received letter from PRA group stating current balance is £8937.58 and enclosing 'copy documents as requested'. This consists of a readable 'Pre-contractual Explanation Sheet' and two pages of very small type which is apparently pre-contractual credit information (about four pages shrunk to one sheet) and a credit card agreement, just about readable but including some personal details. Set to Niddy for an opinion.

                    I'm quoting your earlier post so members can see the history.

                    When was this debt assigned from MBNA to PRA?

                    And was it assigned direct to PRA or could it have been assigned to Aktiv Kapital before they assigned it to PRA?

                    Do you recall getting a Default Notice from MBNA before they terminated the account?

                    The credit agreement isn't the only thing which can make a debt unenforceable - the debt owner has to get all their statutory obligations right, which they failed to do in the case of PRA v Diana Mayhew (me )


                    Originally posted by Joanna Connolly View Post
                    ‘“RECONSTITUTED AGREEMENT” – IRREDEEMABLY UNENFORCEABLE”
                    “UNREDACTED DEEDS OF ASSIGNMENT – NO ASSIGMENT PROVED”


                    So, held Recorder Bellamy in PRA Group (UK) Limited v Mayhew at Central London County Court on 22nd March 2017, at the end of a 3 day multi track trial, when dismissing PRA’s claim against our client.


                    Stale debts sued for on the back of 2 ‘reconstituted’ MBNA credit card agreements (May 1999 and October 2000) were held irredeemably unenforceable under CCA 1974. The evidence of an honest witness was preferred to that of so called “reconstituted agreements”.


                    After 3 days of close forensic examination of, and legal argument about, evidence and documents from both PRA and MBNA stating that our client’s specific debt had been assigned, the court held that no assignment had been proved.


                    Efforts, over many months, in earlier cases to force PRA into disclosure of un-redacted deeds and deep and sustained forensic challenge to the provenance of documents needed to prove regulatory compliance, finally drew back the veil. The reality behind bulk debt purchasing was revealed.


                    This decision shows that just saying an agreement is enforceable and producing a “reconstituted” copy does not prove that it is enforceable. Just saying an agreement has been assigned and producing a notice saying it has been assigned does not prove legal assignment.


                    Debt purchasers need to provide proof. If that means the pitifully few pence in the pound they pay for stale debts will increase because banks will now have to start keeping original evidence complying with regulatory consumer protection measures, it is hard to imagine many tears being shed, outside the City of London.

                    Di
                    Legal Disclaimer

                    I am a Litigation Executive at Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specialises in consumer credit. If you need to contact me you can send a message by clicking on my username or by emailing me at di@joannaconnollysolicitors.co.uk or by telephoning 0330 053 9340. Our initial advice is always free.

                    Any posts I make on the AAD Consumer Forum are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide on the forum is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Diana Mayhew View Post
                      When was this debt assigned from MBNA to PRA?
                      I have a letter from MBNA dated 3rd January 2018 stating that they have decided to sell the debt to PRA Group (UK) Ltd., transferring ownership & rights to collect etc.

                      And was it assigned direct to PRA or could it have been assigned to Aktiv Kapital before they assigned it to PRA?
                      Assigned directly, I believe.

                      Do you recall getting a Default Notice from MBNA before they terminated the account?
                      Default notice dated 4th September 2018.

                      Looks like they've got their act together on this one...

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Night Monkey View Post

                        I have a letter from MBNA dated 3rd January 2018 stating that they have decided to sell the debt to PRA Group (UK) Ltd., transferring ownership & rights to collect etc.



                        Assigned directly, I believe.



                        Default notice dated 4th September 2018.

                        Looks like they've got their act together on this one...
                        Not necessarily - depends on the state and form of the default notice for a start - Maybe it depends on the terms of the assignment but they are difficult to get hold of- I remember seeing one that said after a year the OC would not help in retrieval of documents (but that was a different firm and many years ago).

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Night Monkey View Post
                          Looks like they've got their act together on this one...
                          Have you heard anything further from PRA?

                          What was Niddy's opinion on the credit agreement which they sent you on 9th November?

                          Di

                          Legal Disclaimer

                          I am a Litigation Executive at Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specialises in consumer credit. If you need to contact me you can send a message by clicking on my username or by emailing me at di@joannaconnollysolicitors.co.uk or by telephoning 0330 053 9340. Our initial advice is always free.

                          Any posts I make on the AAD Consumer Forum are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide on the forum is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

                          Comment

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