Re: Advice needed on debt taken out in daughter's name by 2friend"
Slowly becoming clearer (murkier?) now, definitely worse!
Apologies in advance for the lengthy post, but there was a lot to say!
It turns out there are two debts, one which daughter stupidly agreed to (Next) and let friend set up using daughter's details, but using friend's contact number. This had, as at 5 March, c.£290 outstanding - demanding £108 immediate payment.
Subsequently said 'friend', this time completely unknown to daughter, set up a Studio Card account using the same details she already had, but managed to have the goods ordered sent to her home address in this case. Daughter therefore only found this out when a first statement arrived. She confronted 'friend' who again took advantage of daughter's gullibility/vulnerability and 'talked her around' by promising to pay it off if she kept it to herself.
Clearly this hasn't been happening and daughter has been too ashamed to admit her stupidity until now. This debt I estimate at around £325 (only statement I have seen is from January which then stood at £280). (Both accounts are over limit (£250 limit each), so are unlikely to increase further except accruing interest/charges).
I have spoken with a good friend, who has spoken with his solicitor father and the opinion I have been given is basically this:-
The thinking is that, yes it will cost me £300 or thereabouts to clear Next account and daughter can pay me back each month ("tough love"), as it seems highly unlikely 'friend' will honour any agreement long-term to repay either way. However, for 'friend's' part, she is lumbered with a criminal record for fraud. That way we only lose £300 and she suffers serious consequences for her actions.
Alternatively, if I were to pay both off, yes daughter's problem is solved, but friend gets off 'scot-free' for fraud and very likely I 'lose' in excess of £600, as I see little realistic likelihood of 'friend' maintaining any agreed repayment plan beyond a couple of weeks.
She is a single mum on benefits with young children and I could try using the implied threat of reporting as fraud to hope this scares her into sticking to payments, but doubt that would last too long before she realises it as an idle threat. (I am increasingly getting the feeling that she has done this type of thing before to others. She has no parents and has 'fallen out' with most of the rest of her family apparently).
I am really not sure what to do for the best.
So far my daughter has the 'friend's' verbal promise that she will pay £15p.w. to daughter to pay off over time. If, BIG IF, she kept to that and I paid both off without her knowledge, then it would take around 40 weekly payments assuming the total of both debts is around £600 as I believe, but I doubt that this promise would be fulfilled.
I really do not want daughter dragging into any legal proceedings, as I believe she would struggle to cope with the stress (she had an emotional breakdown a few years ago after her long-term partner suddenly left, which partially explains her vulnerable nature ever since). I also do not want her to incur any further potential spiraling of these debts in her name, however, I feel strongly that this so called 'friend' should own up and pay up as she is the only one to reap any benefit from any of this and this whole mess is at her instigation.
I think this needs further careful consideration before acting, but initially I am looking at paying off Next for her on Friday (without informing 'friend') as she is at least partially culpable in that case and ensuring that account is closed with no option to resurrect. Then, only after I have repaid the account, I am thinking of advising Next that the phone number they hold was not my daughter's and should be removed as this was an attempted fraud, but I don't suppose they will care if they are repaid?
If anyone is still reading after all that:-
Any further thoughts / alternative advice would be appreciated?
Slowly becoming clearer (murkier?) now, definitely worse!
Apologies in advance for the lengthy post, but there was a lot to say!
It turns out there are two debts, one which daughter stupidly agreed to (Next) and let friend set up using daughter's details, but using friend's contact number. This had, as at 5 March, c.£290 outstanding - demanding £108 immediate payment.
Subsequently said 'friend', this time completely unknown to daughter, set up a Studio Card account using the same details she already had, but managed to have the goods ordered sent to her home address in this case. Daughter therefore only found this out when a first statement arrived. She confronted 'friend' who again took advantage of daughter's gullibility/vulnerability and 'talked her around' by promising to pay it off if she kept it to herself.
Clearly this hasn't been happening and daughter has been too ashamed to admit her stupidity until now. This debt I estimate at around £325 (only statement I have seen is from January which then stood at £280). (Both accounts are over limit (£250 limit each), so are unlikely to increase further except accruing interest/charges).
I have spoken with a good friend, who has spoken with his solicitor father and the opinion I have been given is basically this:-
- The Next debt: Daughter is complicit and, if possible, pay this off in full and 'kick daughter's arse' for being a bloody fool!
- The Studio card debt: Was taken out competely without daughter's knowledge by her 'friend' and is "fraud on her part, pure and simple, arguably with ID theft thrown in - serious offences". Daughter's only issue is not reporting sooner through fear and misguided loyalty to friend who promised she would pay pay off - foolish, but perhaps understandable.
- Recommendation: To treat second debt as fraud and report to company as such. Friend has not made any realistic attempt to repay as promised and advice was reiterated that this is clearly fraud by the friend as daughter was not aware until after the event and has not colluded or benefitted in any way. Also any audit trail at company would show friend's delivery address and phone number and if phone calls recorded, her voice at all stages. (Personally, I have serious misgivings that this would not be that straightforward despite best intentions of the advice).
The thinking is that, yes it will cost me £300 or thereabouts to clear Next account and daughter can pay me back each month ("tough love"), as it seems highly unlikely 'friend' will honour any agreement long-term to repay either way. However, for 'friend's' part, she is lumbered with a criminal record for fraud. That way we only lose £300 and she suffers serious consequences for her actions.
Alternatively, if I were to pay both off, yes daughter's problem is solved, but friend gets off 'scot-free' for fraud and very likely I 'lose' in excess of £600, as I see little realistic likelihood of 'friend' maintaining any agreed repayment plan beyond a couple of weeks.
She is a single mum on benefits with young children and I could try using the implied threat of reporting as fraud to hope this scares her into sticking to payments, but doubt that would last too long before she realises it as an idle threat. (I am increasingly getting the feeling that she has done this type of thing before to others. She has no parents and has 'fallen out' with most of the rest of her family apparently).
I am really not sure what to do for the best.
So far my daughter has the 'friend's' verbal promise that she will pay £15p.w. to daughter to pay off over time. If, BIG IF, she kept to that and I paid both off without her knowledge, then it would take around 40 weekly payments assuming the total of both debts is around £600 as I believe, but I doubt that this promise would be fulfilled.
I really do not want daughter dragging into any legal proceedings, as I believe she would struggle to cope with the stress (she had an emotional breakdown a few years ago after her long-term partner suddenly left, which partially explains her vulnerable nature ever since). I also do not want her to incur any further potential spiraling of these debts in her name, however, I feel strongly that this so called 'friend' should own up and pay up as she is the only one to reap any benefit from any of this and this whole mess is at her instigation.
I think this needs further careful consideration before acting, but initially I am looking at paying off Next for her on Friday (without informing 'friend') as she is at least partially culpable in that case and ensuring that account is closed with no option to resurrect. Then, only after I have repaid the account, I am thinking of advising Next that the phone number they hold was not my daughter's and should be removed as this was an attempted fraud, but I don't suppose they will care if they are repaid?
If anyone is still reading after all that:-
Any further thoughts / alternative advice would be appreciated?
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