Advice needed on debt taken out in daughter's name by "friend"

[Barney]

Re: Advice needed on debt taken out in daughter's name by 2friend"

Slowly becoming clearer (murkier?) now, definitely worse!

Apologies in advance for the lengthy post, but there was a lot to say!


It turns out there are two debts, one which daughter stupidly agreed to (Next) and let friend set up using daughter's details, but using friend's contact number. This had, as at 5 March, c.£290 outstanding - demanding £108 immediate payment.

Subsequently said 'friend', this time completely unknown to daughter, set up a Studio Card account using the same details she already had, but managed to have the goods ordered sent to her home address in this case. Daughter therefore only found this out when a first statement arrived. She confronted 'friend' who again took advantage of daughter's gullibility/vulnerability and 'talked her around' by promising to pay it off if she kept it to herself.

Clearly this hasn't been happening and daughter has been too ashamed to admit her stupidity until now. This debt I estimate at around £325 (only statement I have seen is from January which then stood at £280). (Both accounts are over limit (£250 limit each), so are unlikely to increase further except accruing interest/charges).


I have spoken with a good friend, who has spoken with his solicitor father and the opinion I have been given is basically this:-

• The Next debt: Daughter is complicit and, if possible, pay this off in full and 'kick daughter's arse' for being a bloody fool!
• The Studio card debt: Was taken out competely without daughter's knowledge by her 'friend' and is "fraud on her part, pure and simple, arguably with ID theft thrown in - serious offences". Daughter's only issue is not reporting sooner through fear and misguided loyalty to friend who promised she would pay pay off - foolish, but perhaps understandable.
• Recommendation: To treat second debt as fraud and report to company as such. Friend has not made any realistic attempt to repay as promised and advice was reiterated that this is clearly fraud by the friend as daughter was not aware until after the event and has not colluded or benefitted in any way. Also any audit trail at company would show friend's delivery address and phone number and if phone calls recorded, her voice at all stages. (Personally, I have serious misgivings that this would not be that straightforward despite best intentions of the advice).

The thinking is that, yes it will cost me £300 or thereabouts to clear Next account and daughter can pay me back each month ("tough love"), as it seems highly unlikely 'friend' will honour any agreement long-term to repay either way. However, for 'friend's' part, she is lumbered with a criminal record for fraud. That way we only lose £300 and she suffers serious consequences for her actions.

Alternatively, if I were to pay both off, yes daughter's problem is solved, but friend gets off 'scot-free' for fraud and very likely I 'lose' in excess of £600, as I see little realistic likelihood of 'friend' maintaining any agreed repayment plan beyond a couple of weeks.

She is a single mum on benefits with young children and I could try using the implied threat of reporting as fraud to hope this scares her into sticking to payments, but doubt that would last too long before she realises it as an idle threat. (I am increasingly getting the feeling that she has done this type of thing before to others. She has no parents and has 'fallen out' with most of the rest of her family apparently).


I am really not sure what to do for the best.


So far my daughter has the 'friend's' verbal promise that she will pay £15p.w. to daughter to pay off over time. If, BIG IF, she kept to that and I paid both off without her knowledge, then it would take around 40 weekly payments assuming the total of both debts is around £600 as I believe, but I doubt that this promise would be fulfilled.

I really do not want daughter dragging into any legal proceedings, as I believe she would struggle to cope with the stress (she had an emotional breakdown a few years ago after her long-term partner suddenly left, which partially explains her vulnerable nature ever since). I also do not want her to incur any further potential spiraling of these debts in her name, however, I feel strongly that this so called 'friend' should own up and pay up as she is the only one to reap any benefit from any of this and this whole mess is at her instigation.

I think this needs further careful consideration before acting, but initially I am looking at paying off Next for her on Friday (without informing 'friend') as she is at least partially culpable in that case and ensuring that account is closed with no option to resurrect. Then, only after I have repaid the account, I am thinking of advising Next that the phone number they hold was not my daughter's and should be removed as this was an attempted fraud, but I don't suppose they will care if they are repaid?


If anyone is still reading after all that:-

Any further thoughts / alternative advice would be appreciated?

[Sapphire]

Re: Advice needed on debt taken out in daughter's name by 2friend"

My thoughts on this and apologies if this offends anyone at all.

Pay off the debt that has your daughters name on it, sit her down and tell her to change her mobile number and to rid herself of the so called friend pronto, then tell get her to report the other debt as fraud, ok so she'll probably get a few forms to fill in which you can help her with and she might get a bit of grief from the 'ex' friend but after a while the 'ex' friend will find another mug to latch onto and so the story will carry on until she is prosecuted.

Your daughter has been though hell and back but tell her from me that if it don't kill you it makes you stronger, honestly she will be fine, just be there for her when she needs to talk, I guarantee she will get through this and for the better.

Now the bit that might offend....

This friend is playing on the fact that she's single with a couple of kids, well bully for her, there's lots of people in that situation and that don't go round committing fraud, there's also far too many people going round claiming they are hard done by because they are on their own with kids.

[Inca]

Re: Advice needed on debt taken out in daughter's name by 2friend"

Short of pinning the 'friend' up against a wall by the throat (my preferred 'problem solver') the ONLY way to deal with this is legally,,it's fraud,,out and out fraud and your daughter does not deserve to suffer financially because of this (and you definitely don't).
I agree with Cloggy,,you definitely need to find out what other cards/loans she has taken out...online shopping is as easy as ABC (even I can do it and I'm a complete plonker techy wise)
A lot of online catalogues allow delivery to a different address.
And as for the 'single mum on benefits' crap..thats just being reeled out to appease you,,she's nothing short of a thief.

[pompeyfaith]

Re: Advice needed on debt taken out in daughter's name by 2friend"

For the second debt it must be treated as fraud, what is stopping this person from doing it again? nothing I would pay off the first debt so your Daughter is not implicated as naturally you would wish to protect her.

The Second debt needs reporting as fraud and you can get further help here:

http://www.actionfraud.police.uk/rep...report-a-fraud

[Inca]

Re: Advice needed on debt taken out in daughter's name by 2friend"

Paperless billing...a help and a curse..your daughter really could have other debts run up by 'friend' and not have a clue,until she defaults on them.

[Barney]

Re: Advice needed on debt taken out in daughter's name by 2friend"

My thoughts on this and apologies if this offends anyone at all.

Pay off the debt that has your daughters name on it, sit her down and tell her to change her mobile number and to rid herself of the so called friend pronto, then tell get her to report the other debt as fraud, ok so she'll probably get a few forms to fill in which you can help her with and she might get a bit of grief from the 'ex' friend but after a while the 'ex' friend will find another mug to latch onto and so the story will carry on until she is prosecuted.

Your daughter has been though hell and back but tell her from me that if it don't kill you it makes you stronger, honestly she will be fine, just be there for her when she needs to talk, I guarantee she will get through this and for the better.

Now the bit that might offend....

This friend is playing on the fact that she's single with a couple of kids, well bully for her, there's lots of people in that situation and that don't go round committing fraud, there's also far too many people going round claiming they are hard done by because they are on their own with kids.

No offence taken whatsoever and thanks for the impressively quick response.


The irony of it is that since our daughter's partner left, she is also a single mum currently reluctantly having to claim benefits. It was said to her the other day: "You haven't got enough oars to paddle her own canoe, never mind trying to paddle someone else's!" Very true!

Just to clarify, both debts are in daughter's name, it is the second that was done without any prior knowledge. It is friend's mobile number on file in each case as daughter was stupid enough to let friend set up the Next account herself.


Regarding your very welcome opinion, in principle, I absolutely agree with you 100 percent.



I do see several potential pitfalls though:


I would imagine the company would demand that it be reported by daughter to the Police?, or would they do that themselves? Would they not question why it has taken several months for her to contact them? I really haven't a clue how this would work or pan out.

When fraud was mentioned by daughter, the 'friend' basically said that she would just say that daughter agreed to it "like the Next account" and tried to drag any and every little thing possible into the argument to obfuscate the reality of her wrongdoing. Don't want daughter being wrongly accused of colluding on the second debt.

Both 'friend's' kids and our Granddaughter attend same primary school and lives within a couple of streets of daughter. We are learning the hard way that 'friend' is quite the 'trouble causer' when things do not go her way and daughter mentions has some 'undesirable acquaintances'.

She also tries to play on the recently discovered fact that she is effectively a distant cousin (through marriage only and not my side of the family, thank goodness!)



What a bloody mess!

[Sapphire]

Re: Advice needed on debt taken out in daughter's name by 2friend"

Sure is a mess.

So both debts have your daughters name on them, but your daughter did not agree to her name being used on one of them ?

I think you have choices to make either

a) Pay the account, and tell the friend no more playtime and get the money from her weekly which will be a right bummer to do and you could end up losing out

b) Go to the old bill, tell the truth and hopefully your daughter will get a slapped wrist for being a silly mare

c) Tell the two companies that both accounts were obtained fraudulently and when the friend says differently deny everything, when they ask why the long time in reporting it say that you've been trying to sort it out privately but its got to a point that it can't be done

My personal favourite is c) plus tell everyone who will listen what a nasty barsteward ex friend is and tell the ex friend to do one

[Barney]

Re: Advice needed on debt taken out in daughter's name by 2friend"

Paperless billing...a help and a curse..your daughter really could have other debts run up by 'friend' and not have a clue,until she defaults on them.

Thanks to all respondents - absolutely overwhelmed by the responses.

I think we need to get a credit report (Noddle??) and then contact 'action fraud' or should we report to company first. As mentioned above my worry is that daughter becomes co-accused despite being the innocent, but extremely foolish party to all this.

I cannot sort this time wise until Friday, when I can pay off the Next account in full and will hopefully have time to phone whoever needs phoning.

Would you advise telling them (after repayment) that this was fraud as well (although daughter was talked into it or would you "turn a blind eye" and just insist on written confirmation of closure?

[Barney]

Re: Advice needed on debt taken out in daughter's name by 2friend"

Sure is a mess.

So both debts have your daughters name on them, but your daughter did not agree to her name being used on one of them ?

I think you have choices to make either

a) Pay the account, and tell the friend no more playtime and get the money from her weekly which will be a right bummer to do and you could end up losing out

b) Go to the old bill, tell the truth and hopefully your daughter will get a slapped wrist for being a silly mare

c) Tell the two companies that both accounts were obtained fraudulently and when the friend says differently deny everything, when they ask why the long time in reporting it say that you've been trying to sort it out privately but its got to a point that it can't be done

My personal favourite is c) plus tell everyone who will listen what a nasty barsteward ex friend is and tell the ex friend to do one

Am really liking your option c) but suspect it will be a) or b).

"What a wimp!" I hear you all say! Yes, we are very non-confrontational (read "soft") as a family and that is exactly why this sort of person tries to take advantage.

[Inca]

Re: Advice needed on debt taken out in daughter's name by 2friend"

You're not soft at all,,many people dislike confrontation (not me)
I had my ID used to garner loans,debts,catalogues,you name it...and mine was by a family member.
Only you can decide what's best for you and your daughter but I really would recommend a credit report,,hopefully there's no nasty surprises on there.

[Barney]

Re: Advice needed on debt taken out in daughter's name by 2friend"

For the second debt it must be treated as fraud, what is stopping this person from doing it again? nothing I would pay off the first debt so your Daughter is not implicated as naturally you would wish to protect her.

The Second debt needs reporting as fraud and you can get further help here:

http://www.actionfraud.police.uk/rep...report-a-fraud

Hi Pompeyfaith and thanks for responding, I almost missed your post whilst replying to others.

I have not spoken to the 'friend' since this all blew up a few days ago. In fact I have only spoken personally on a handful of occasions in all the time my daughter has known her.

I am off work on Friday and have promised Granddaughter a lift to school and pick her up later. I am hoping to engineer bumping into the 'friend'. She will not expect me being there and, if all goes to plan, I intend putting her on the spot.

She will not be threatened physically, it is not in my nature, but she will not so easily fob me off as she seems to be able to do with my daughter.

I intend to leave her in no doubt that it is my way or the hard way.

I will be asking her if she can think of any good reason why I should not have already reported her act(s) of fraud to the Police? Does she realise how serious a crime fraud is?

If I get the cocky response that she will simply deny it or implicate my daughter, I intend to advise her that to perjure herself in court on top of a conviction for fraud would highly likely see her risking a custodial sentence and where would that leave her with three kids at home? If that doesn't make her think then nothing will.

I guess I might get empty promises at best, but if that is the case, I will be playing hardball with at least the second debt being reported as fraud.

That's my current thoughts anyhow.

Any opinion 'yay' or 'nay' very welcome.

[MrsD]

Re: Advice needed on debt taken out in daughter's name by 2friend"

I'd be inclined towards Sapphire's option B

in the long run, probably cleaner and more clinical and you just play on your daughter's situation, as we say locally, act daft and get a hurl for nothing....................

[CleverClogs (RIP)]

Re: Advice needed on debt taken out in daughter's name by 2friend"

When fraud was mentioned by daughter, the 'friend' basically said that she would just say that daughter agreed to it "like the Next account" and tried to drag any and every little thing possible into the argument to obfuscate the reality of her wrongdoing. Don't want daughter being wrongly accused of colluding on the second debt.

Or indeed for the third, fourth or fifth debts?

The "friend" (or fiend!) has done this twice, with or without your daughter's complicity. What would stop her from having done this again and again, furnishing her entire house that way, or even providing the stock for a market stall by means of fraud committed in your daughter's name?

I really do not see that your daughter or you have any real choice in the matter - the crimes must be reported, as it seems possible that other frauds may have been committed; some may involve your daughter's details, but other offences may involve someone else.

[CleverClogs (RIP)]

Re: Advice needed on debt taken out in daughter's name by 2friend"

I am off work on Friday and have promised Granddaughter a lift to school and pick her up later. I am hoping to engineer bumping into the 'friend'. She will not expect me being there and, if all goes to plan, I intend putting her on the spot.

She will not be threatened physically, it is not in my nature, but she will not so easily fob me off as she seems to be able to do with my daughter.

Perhaps not, but it would be very much easier for the friendly fraudster to accuse you of being a paedophile.

Let her try that with the woodentops, if she likes - they have a Warrant Card, which you don't.

[MrsD]

Re: Advice needed on debt taken out in daughter's name by 2friend"

I'm with Clogs here Barney

I think the situation requires immediate action, I would be getting off to the police pronto

it is fraud but depending how you play it you could be looking at something like "grooming for financial gain" because really, that's what the pesky woman has done.