Lilly's Repossession

[lilly1203]

Re: Lilly1203 Diary

I feel a second SAR coming on. Wait until Niddy has seen the agreement, but UE isn't only about s.78. An agreement can be unenforceable in court for a whole host of reasons

Was there any PPI on that GE Money loan?

Cant see any PPI on the contract. How do I send Niddy the CCA, cant find the link on the new site, thanks Lilly Dad

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Lilly1203 Diary

Cant see any PPI on the contract. How do I send Niddy the CCA, cant find the link on the new site, thanks Lilly Dad

Webmaster@all-about-debt.co.uk

[lilly1203]

Re: Lilly1203 Diary

I feel a second SAR coming on. Wait until Niddy has seen the agreement, but UE isn't only about s.78. An agreement can be unenforceable in court for a whole host of reasons

Was there any PPI on that GE Money loan?

Hi PlanB and Elsa, Niddy says cant challenge the CCA as its after 04/07 as you have said, I will send SAR request today to NRAM and to GE. The total debt to all is about £19,000 inc GE and shortfall to NRAM. Thanks Lilly's Dad

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Lilly1203 Diary

Although this is post 04/07 there are errors such as they've added a broker and application fee to the PT's of the loan suggesting on the £400 broker fee @ 15.9% APR over 25yrs - a lot more would have been repaid hence the PT's are wrong but it's after 04/2007.

Hmmmmmm

[Undercover Elsa]

Re: Lilly1203 Diary

That's good though isn't it? Although sadly can't be out and out UE, at least it's a point for arguing down the residual balance/pushing for a write off..

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Lilly1203 Diary

That's good though isn't it? Although sadly can't be out and out UE, at least it's a point for arguing down the residual balance/pushing for a write off..

Well depends on default etc as well but yea, can't see how an £8k loan can turn into one at £30k loan just like that! It's absurd.....

[lilly1203]

Re: Lilly1203 Diary

Good to hear that Lilly and the kids are settling into their new life

The mortgage shortfall is small in the grand scheme of things and NRAM are unlikely to keep chasing her for long. But she needs to get a statement now with a full breakdown of all the add-ons such as legal costs, agent's fees, interest, and redemption charges etc. These can be challenged if they are excessive (they will be!). She needs to get that £3.5k figure down to as low as possible so they may write off the balance. She would have been responsible for the mortgage payments up until completion of the sale. She also needs to check whether they will be adding interest (sometimes they can) to that £3.5k shortfall which could add up over the years if she ignores it.

In some ways she has saved money by not being repossessed through the courts because she would have had to pay all NRAM's legal costs for that process too. She did a voluntary repossession (she handed in the keys) but that doesn't mean the lender should take advantage of the situation. They have a duty to get the best price and it looks as if they didn't. So the quick answer to your question is she should get the figures from NRAM and make a complaint to the FOS who do take repossession underselling seriously. I hope she's kept the valuations she had done which evidence a market value of £20k - £30k more than it was sold for. She needs comparables of similar houses sold locally (within a 5 mile radius) which she can get from the www.Zoopla.co.uk or www.nethouseprices.com websites. Just enter the postcode and voila. The recent figures take two months to become available (they're based on Land Registry figures so they will be accurate).

Here's a case where the FOS awarded compensation to someone whose house was undersold by the lender following repossession. I hope she finds this encouraging:

http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.u...ears.html#cs11

Hi PlanB, just to update things. I have sent off the SAR to NRAM and GE, I have done some research and we do have the valuation from the estate agent dated Feb 2013 that states £174.999 based on recent sales and today's market value. I have also got valuations from Zoopla and the same houses in the same road are all around £170,000 +, one actually sold for £170,000 recently. this would have cleared all the mortgage arrears and GE money. Shall I wait to hear back from NRAM re the SAR or contact FOS now, thanks Lilly's dad

[PlanB]

Re: Lilly1203 Diary

I have done some research and we do have the valuation from the estate agent dated Feb 2013 that states £174.999 based on recent sales and today's market value. I have also got valuations from Zoopla and the same houses in the same road are all around £170,000 +, one actually sold for £170,000 recently. this would have cleared all the mortgage arrears and GE money. Shall I wait to hear back from NRAM re the SAR or contact FOS now

This is great news

You will need further evidence of how the property was marketed (advertised in a newspaper etc.), how many viewings took place (or was it offered privately to a developer known to the agent), and were any offers made that may have been higher but were rejected by the agent in favour of the offer accepted which may have been lower from a cash buyer. While a lender has a duty to 'get on with it' when selling a repossession, that doesn't mean they can reject a better offer (or the potential for a better offer) just because they think it may take longer to complete.

I'd wait until you get back both your SARs because there should be more evidence in them to help you. I always think it's best to make one complaint with everything in it rather than fire off a knee-jerk reaction which doesn't tackle the whole problem. Part of the reason why complaints fail at the FOS stage is the information coming through in dribs and drabs. So if you can contain your excitement until you hear back from both NRAM and GE Money that would be best.

Can you just clarify the legal position once Lilly moved out of the house. Did she send the keys to the lender (which means she may have still owned it at the point of sale and would have had to sign various documents via a solicitor), or was the lender granted a possession order by the court so that NRAM owned it from then on?

[PlanB]

Re: Lilly1203 Diary

Can you just clarify the legal position once Lilly moved out of the house. Did she send the keys to the lender (which means she may have still owned it at the point of sale and would have had to sign various documents via a solicitor), or was the lender granted a possession order by the court so that NRAM owned it from then on?

The are several reasons why the way in which Lilly's property was *repossessed* will be relevant so here's a bit of information on voluntary repossession if she did hand back the property. I remember a post at the time where said she had already placed it with an estate agent at the higher price and NRAM agreed to continue marketing with them. Did this actually happen or did the lender appoint their own agent?

http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_ad..._back_the_keys

[lilly1203]

Re: Lilly1203 Diary

The are several reasons why the way in which Lilly's property was *repossessed* will be relevant so here's a bit of information on voluntary repossession if she did hand back the property. I remember a post at the time where said she had already placed it with an estate agent at the higher price and NRAM agreed to continue marketing with them. Did this actually happen or did the lender appoint their own agent?

http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_ad..._back_the_keys

Hi PlanB, NRAM moved from the original local estate agent (Paul Carr) who we appointed to Bill Tandy, he started the property at £142,000 and asked for offers. It was only on the market for a few weeks and they accepted an offer of £154,950, cheers Lillys Dad

[lilly1203]

Re: Lilly1203 Diary

The are several reasons why the way in which Lilly's property was *repossessed* will be relevant so here's a bit of information on voluntary repossession if she did hand back the property. I remember a post at the time where said she had already placed it with an estate agent at the higher price and NRAM agreed to continue marketing with them. Did this actually happen or did the lender appoint their own agent?

http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_ad..._back_the_keys

I will check with Lilly but I am sure we went for voluntary repossession, we agreed it at court and just gave the keys back, let you know later, LD

[PlanB]

Re: Lilly1203 Diary

NRAM moved from the original local estate agent (Paul Carr) who we appointed to Bill Tandy, he started the property at £142,000 and asked for offers. It was only on the market for a few weeks and they accepted an offer of £154,950

Are you sure Bill Tandy didn't enter the house into auction and then accepted a pre-auction date offer? Look on this website detailing all the properties which they put up as *lots* for sale this year and you will see some are marked "withdrawn" which tends to mean sold pre-auction. Is Lilly's house on this July auction list which was held in Walsall (click on dates for property addresses, photos and full details)?

http://www.auctionhouse.uk.net/birmi...-auctions.aspx

[PlanB]

Re: Lilly1203 Diary

I am sure we went for voluntary repossession, we agreed it at court and just gave the keys back

If you agreed it at court then it wouldn't have been a voluntary repossession in legal terms. It means you offered no defence so the lender got a possession order from the DJ. Does that make sense? If Lilly handed back the keys that would have prevented NRAM seeking an Eviction Warrant for which she would have been charged more legal costs. Chances are she was charged legal costs for the repossession hearing regardless of her willingness not to oppose it since the event still took place. Did she try to defend the proceedings or seek an adjournment to give her time to sell the house using her own estate agent?

[lilly1203]

Re: Lilly1203 Diary

If you agreed it at court then it wouldn't have been a voluntary repossession in legal terms. It means you offered no defence so the lender got a possession order from the DJ. Does that make sense? If Lilly handed back the keys that would have prevented NRAM seeking an Eviction Warrant for which she would have been charged more legal costs. Chances are she was charged legal costs for the repossession hearing regardless of her willingness not to oppose it since the event still took place. Did she try to defend the proceedings or seek an adjournment to give her time to sell the house using her own estate agent?

No there was no defense. We just went along and the DJ gave a 7 days possession order and we just gave them the keys, the house was empty by then. They did not ask for a money order ( or something like that) but said they may have to go back for that if there is a shortfall. LD

[lilly1203]

Re: Lilly1203 Diary

Hi Guys, it has been a time but we have just received a SAR response from NRAM. Just to update you all:

My daughter Lilly lost her husband an was unable to keep up payments on the house, NRAM repossessed and Lilly moved to a rented house with the children. She is very settled now. NRAM sold the property well under the market value and are now coming after her for the balance of £3,500. I have sent off a SAR as Niddy suggested and it has now come back, we have received a ream of paper with loads of stuff on it. Wondered what we need to do now, do we negotiate to pay what she can or do we ask for it to be written off, any suggestions would be very welcome, many thanks Lillys Dad