Lilly's Repossession

[Pixie]

Re: Lilly1203 Diary

Thanks PlanB.

[PlanB]

Re: Lilly1203 Diary

PlanB's the one for this. No doubt she'll look in later.

I've taken a look and I need some *thinking time* if that's ok with everyone. Give me a day or two.

The difficulty is Lilly decided against going to the hearing to ask the court for time to sell the property through her chosen agent. She went with a voluntary repossession when she handed in the keys hence the standard 7 day eviction/repossession. This move probably denied her the evidence she needs to prove that the property was getting interest, viewings, and possibly a viable offer at the right price. Forgive me for saying this but that hasn't helped her argument about the lender selling the property at below market value.

I'll think of something so tell her not to worry yet because there always is a Plan B

[Pixie]

Re: Lilly1203 Diary

PlanB's the one for this. No doubt she'll look in later.

[lilly1203]

Re: Lilly1203 Diary

Hi Plan B, thanks for the reply. We had the house valued at £174,000 by a local estate agent and it was on the market for £169,000 to get a quick sale, this would have paid all debts and left her with some cash. NRAM took it to court and got a 7 day eviction order, they then changed estate agents and put it on the market for £125,000 or nearest offer, it was sold at £152,000, £22,000 below value. This left Lilly with a short fall to them of £3,500 to clear the mortgage and £12,000 to GE capital who are now coming after her for this via "Capital Recoveries". NRAM are also after her demanding contact. We have been looking through the SAR paperwork but nothing jumps out at us, they have just resent all the paperwork again (yesterday), there must be 400 sheets plus now. There are no transcripts of any phone calls they made asking for her husband after he died nor any phone calls when they were asking the children where their dad was. Could you suggest what we can do now, is there any response or shall I write pointing out the low sale price and request transcripts of the phone calls. I have put another thread on re GE money and the secured loan that they are chasing via Capital Recoveries,should I copy them into the letter to NRAM and point out that this is now a formal complaint, thanks Lillys Dad

Hi Guys, just wondered if anyone has any idea what to do in this situation. Lilly's late husband took out a loan in Sept 2007 for £9000 with GE capital, the loan was in both names and was secured on the house. NRAM took possession of the house in March this year and sold it for £22,000 under valuation, GE are now coming after Lilly for £12,389.86 via Capital Recoveries. As the loan was in Sept 2007 I don't think we can go down the UE route. I have sent a letter to NRAM formality complaining about there selling tactics and asking for further info re the SAR, I will then send a complaint to FOS as PlanB suggested. Not sure how to deal with GE or Cap Recoveries, the loan was secured but she no longer has the house, if it had sold at market value she would have paid everyone off and had some left for herself, any suggestion will be very appreciated, cheers Lilly Dad.

[lilly1203]

Re: Lilly1203 Diary

If NRAM sold the property below market value then they owe her money and not the other way round! From memory her home was sold at auction and I encouraged you to get valuations from a reputable agent before it was repossessed so you've got written evidence. When the SAR arrives check all the charges, legal fees, auctions fees etc which have been added and dispute the whole lot together with the under-sale. Make a formal complaint and then progress that to the FOS who take a strong line on lenders' treatment of customers over repossessions. In this case they ordered the lender to pay the customer £3k in compensation

http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.u...ears.html#cs11

Hi Plan B, thanks for the reply. We had the house valued at £174,000 by a local estate agent and it was on the market for £169,000 to get a quick sale, this would have paid all debts and left her with some cash. NRAM took it to court and got a 7 day eviction order, they then changed estate agents and put it on the market for £125,000 or nearest offer, it was sold at £152,000, £22,000 below value. This left Lilly with a short fall to them of £3,500 to clear the mortgage and £12,000 to GE capital who are now coming after her for this via "Capital Recoveries". NRAM are also after her demanding contact. We have been looking through the SAR paperwork but nothing jumps out at us, they have just resent all the paperwork again (yesterday), there must be 400 sheets plus now. There are no transcripts of any phone calls they made asking for her husband after he died nor any phone calls when they were asking the children where their dad was. Could you suggest what we can do now, is there any response or shall I write pointing out the low sale price and request transcripts of the phone calls. I have put another thread on re GE money and the secured loan that they are chasing via Capital Recoveries,should I copy them into the letter to NRAM and point out that this is now a formal complaint, thanks Lillys Dad

[PlanB]

Re: Lilly1203 Diary

NRAM sold the property well under the market value and are now coming after her for the balance of £3,500. . . .

. . . do we negotiate to pay what she can or do we ask for it to be written off

If NRAM sold the property below market value then they owe her money and not the other way round! From memory her home was sold at auction and I encouraged you to get valuations from a reputable agent before it was repossessed so you've got written evidence. When the SAR arrives check all the charges, legal fees, auctions fees etc which have been added and dispute the whole lot together with the under-sale. Make a formal complaint and then progress that to the FOS who take a strong line on lenders' treatment of customers over repossessions. In this case they ordered the lender to pay the customer £3k in compensation

http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.u...ears.html#cs11

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Lilly1203 Diary

Hi Guys, it has been a time but we have just received a SAR response from NRAM. Just to update you all:

My daughter Lilly lost her husband an was unable to keep up payments on the house, NRAM repossessed and Lilly moved to a rented house with the children. She is very settled now. NRAM sold the property well under the market value and are now coming after her for the balance of £3,500. I have sent off a SAR as Niddy suggested and it has now come back, we have received a ream of paper with loads of stuff on it. Wondered what we need to do now, do we negotiate to pay what she can or do we ask for it to be written off, any suggestions would be very welcome, many thanks Lillys Dad

Hiya

You do not make any offer to pay - you asked for SAR to see if any charges/payment protection/etc was on there? You need to ask Lily to check each page and find errors.... that's a long boring process but one that Lily must do, sadly you won't be able to help much with that as it needs the account holder to check and study everything in the SAR......

However if you are claiming the lender sold the house cheap then the FOS pick up these complaints and can render the balance claimed by the lender as written off.

[lilly1203]

Re: Lilly1203 Diary

Hi Guys, it has been a time but we have just received a SAR response from NRAM. Just to update you all:

My daughter Lilly lost her husband an was unable to keep up payments on the house, NRAM repossessed and Lilly moved to a rented house with the children. She is very settled now. NRAM sold the property well under the market value and are now coming after her for the balance of £3,500. I have sent off a SAR as Niddy suggested and it has now come back, we have received a ream of paper with loads of stuff on it. Wondered what we need to do now, do we negotiate to pay what she can or do we ask for it to be written off, any suggestions would be very welcome, many thanks Lillys Dad

[lilly1203]

Re: Lilly1203 Diary

If you agreed it at court then it wouldn't have been a voluntary repossession in legal terms. It means you offered no defence so the lender got a possession order from the DJ. Does that make sense? If Lilly handed back the keys that would have prevented NRAM seeking an Eviction Warrant for which she would have been charged more legal costs. Chances are she was charged legal costs for the repossession hearing regardless of her willingness not to oppose it since the event still took place. Did she try to defend the proceedings or seek an adjournment to give her time to sell the house using her own estate agent?

No there was no defense. We just went along and the DJ gave a 7 days possession order and we just gave them the keys, the house was empty by then. They did not ask for a money order ( or something like that) but said they may have to go back for that if there is a shortfall. LD

[PlanB]

Re: Lilly1203 Diary

I am sure we went for voluntary repossession, we agreed it at court and just gave the keys back

If you agreed it at court then it wouldn't have been a voluntary repossession in legal terms. It means you offered no defence so the lender got a possession order from the DJ. Does that make sense? If Lilly handed back the keys that would have prevented NRAM seeking an Eviction Warrant for which she would have been charged more legal costs. Chances are she was charged legal costs for the repossession hearing regardless of her willingness not to oppose it since the event still took place. Did she try to defend the proceedings or seek an adjournment to give her time to sell the house using her own estate agent?

[PlanB]

Re: Lilly1203 Diary

NRAM moved from the original local estate agent (Paul Carr) who we appointed to Bill Tandy, he started the property at £142,000 and asked for offers. It was only on the market for a few weeks and they accepted an offer of £154,950

Are you sure Bill Tandy didn't enter the house into auction and then accepted a pre-auction date offer? Look on this website detailing all the properties which they put up as *lots* for sale this year and you will see some are marked "withdrawn" which tends to mean sold pre-auction. Is Lilly's house on this July auction list which was held in Walsall (click on dates for property addresses, photos and full details)?

http://www.auctionhouse.uk.net/birmi...-auctions.aspx

[lilly1203]

Re: Lilly1203 Diary

The are several reasons why the way in which Lilly's property was *repossessed* will be relevant so here's a bit of information on voluntary repossession if she did hand back the property. I remember a post at the time where said she had already placed it with an estate agent at the higher price and NRAM agreed to continue marketing with them. Did this actually happen or did the lender appoint their own agent?

http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_ad..._back_the_keys

I will check with Lilly but I am sure we went for voluntary repossession, we agreed it at court and just gave the keys back, let you know later, LD

[lilly1203]

Re: Lilly1203 Diary

The are several reasons why the way in which Lilly's property was *repossessed* will be relevant so here's a bit of information on voluntary repossession if she did hand back the property. I remember a post at the time where said she had already placed it with an estate agent at the higher price and NRAM agreed to continue marketing with them. Did this actually happen or did the lender appoint their own agent?

http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_ad..._back_the_keys

Hi PlanB, NRAM moved from the original local estate agent (Paul Carr) who we appointed to Bill Tandy, he started the property at £142,000 and asked for offers. It was only on the market for a few weeks and they accepted an offer of £154,950, cheers Lillys Dad

[PlanB]

Re: Lilly1203 Diary

Can you just clarify the legal position once Lilly moved out of the house. Did she send the keys to the lender (which means she may have still owned it at the point of sale and would have had to sign various documents via a solicitor), or was the lender granted a possession order by the court so that NRAM owned it from then on?

The are several reasons why the way in which Lilly's property was *repossessed* will be relevant so here's a bit of information on voluntary repossession if she did hand back the property. I remember a post at the time where said she had already placed it with an estate agent at the higher price and NRAM agreed to continue marketing with them. Did this actually happen or did the lender appoint their own agent?

http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_ad..._back_the_keys

[PlanB]

Re: Lilly1203 Diary

I have done some research and we do have the valuation from the estate agent dated Feb 2013 that states £174.999 based on recent sales and today's market value. I have also got valuations from Zoopla and the same houses in the same road are all around £170,000 +, one actually sold for £170,000 recently. this would have cleared all the mortgage arrears and GE money. Shall I wait to hear back from NRAM re the SAR or contact FOS now

This is great news

You will need further evidence of how the property was marketed (advertised in a newspaper etc.), how many viewings took place (or was it offered privately to a developer known to the agent), and were any offers made that may have been higher but were rejected by the agent in favour of the offer accepted which may have been lower from a cash buyer. While a lender has a duty to 'get on with it' when selling a repossession, that doesn't mean they can reject a better offer (or the potential for a better offer) just because they think it may take longer to complete.

I'd wait until you get back both your SARs because there should be more evidence in them to help you. I always think it's best to make one complaint with everything in it rather than fire off a knee-jerk reaction which doesn't tackle the whole problem. Part of the reason why complaints fail at the FOS stage is the information coming through in dribs and drabs. So if you can contain your excitement until you hear back from both NRAM and GE Money that would be best.

Can you just clarify the legal position once Lilly moved out of the house. Did she send the keys to the lender (which means she may have still owned it at the point of sale and would have had to sign various documents via a solicitor), or was the lender granted a possession order by the court so that NRAM owned it from then on?