New tenancy problem

[PlanB]

Re: New tenancy problem

Moving on to today, my son was woken (about 10am so not too early)this morning by builders entering the house (with keys) in order to start work on his room, which entailed removing plaster and water damaged parts on the chimney breast and replacing plaster board and plan to return tomorrow to re-plaster.

. . . . . The builders used no dust sheets! So it doesn't take much imagination to picture the state of his room at the end of today and they are planning to return tomorrow to re-plaster and it will at some point then need to be re-decorated. He will be at work tomorrow so won't be able to see . . . .
. . . . when they will have to come back and sort leak in the loft.

Blimey this Landlady has got builders who will work on a Saturday. Can you get me their phone number because I can never get mine to work weekends

Your son will be at work tomorrow so will miss the mess. Surely the only crime that's been committed is he got woken up at 10 am this morning. Maybe the Landlady left a voicemail telling him the builders were on the way if his mobile was switched off. Would he have preferred to have been woken up at 7 am with a call to say clear your room out so the builders can start work?

I don't see a problem with the builders returning to fix the loft problem since I presume no one is living in it

[PlanB]

Re: New tenancy problem

I'm going to speak frankly so please don't take offence

This poor Landlady can't win can she? You were cross because she didn't answer calls or emails on New Year's Day. How many businesses take calls on a Bank Holiday unless the place is on fire? Then when she sends round some builders to fix the problem 48 hours later she's in trouble because she didn't give notice in advance. How do you know she didn't try to ring one of the tenants and they didn't answer her calls? Perhaps she was expecting the tenants to be back at work so she told the builders to let themselves into the property and get on with the job in preference to expecting the tenants to take time off work to provide access.

So the builders have made a mess. That's what builders do I'm afraid. The plastering job isn't finished so who's to say they won't clear up when it's over. Plaster takes six weeks to dry before it can be painted over unless they're using the quick-dry method. Maybe this Landlady will send in professional cleaners when the job's done. Wait and see.

The tenancy agreement will make the Landlord responsible for repairs. I don't know what sort of redress the tenants are seeking and why they think they're due anything. They reported a problem and she fixed it. I think she's blooming marvellous to have got on the job so quick during the Christmas/New Year holidays

You should read Pookey's thread. He's been waiting two years to get some of his repairs carried out by his Landlord.

If your son wants to send his Landlady an email today then I think it should say a great big THANK YOU for responding so quickly to the problem.

I warned you I was going to speak frankly

[marypoppins]

Re: New tenancy problem

I know I was going to 'butt' out BUT it seems that there is a damp issue in the house!

The roof had been replaced before occupation however it seems that it was done by someone who didn't know what they were doing!

My sons room has several patches of damp, in corners and on the chimney breast (mid terraced property) builders came round in October and did 'as much as they could' but stated that the roof job was done very badly.

I don't know what they did in October but of course with all the rain we've had, the damp has re-appeared and is worse than ever!

On new years day, water was also discovered leaking through the loft hatch and it seems that there is a gap between the the adjoining house on the one side, they tried to get in touch with the landlady but she didn't respond to calls or an email at this point.

Moving on to today, my son was woken (about 10am so not too early)this morning by builders entering the house (with keys) in order to start work on his room, which entailed removing plaster and water damaged parts on the chimney breast and replacing plaster board and plan to return tomorrow to re-plaster.

Whilst it is appreciated that this work is urgently needed, no notice was given and this resulted in a mad dash to get furniture and items removed from the area that they needed to get to and the room was obviously off limits whilst the work was being done, which was very inconvenient as no time was given to extract things from the room that he would need.

The builders used no dust sheets! So it doesn't take much imagination to picture the state of his room at the end of today and they are planning to return tomorrow to re-plaster and it will at some point then need to be re-decorated. He will be at work tomorrow so won't be able to see what is done and I guess they won't be bothered about they mess they leave, if they didn't use any protection for items in the room in the first place!

Hopefully planB is around (or anyone else) to give some guidelines as to what redress the tenants are entitled to. In my opinion and knowing how awful plaster dust is and the mess it makes, I would think that the room is likely to be uninhabitable until the job is completed and will require a very thorough and possibly a professional clean.

Any advice very much appreciated, he wants to send an email to the landlady about today but I think we also need to know the tenants rights as far as who is responsible for what. Especially when they will have to come back and sort leak in the loft.

[marypoppins]

Re: New tenancy problem

Freezer now in situ, it seems they had a bargain, thank goodness for generous relatives!

Seems that the fridge isn't working properly now!

I'm going to 'butt out' and leave them to sort this themselves Plan B.

[marypoppins]

Re: New tenancy problem

Oh dear you do seem to have got off to a bad start here but I'd be lying if I didn't say it's not looking completely one-sided

Extremely bad start but hey ho, only just under 11 months to go!

Housing law isn't always black and white and most disputes are decided on reasonableness. Try looking at this objectively even though it's your son at the eye of the storm.

The Tenants told the Landlord that they could buy a second-hand freezer for £20. The Landlord has paid the Tenants the £20. Sorted. If the Tenants aren't happy with that resolution then they shouldn't have agreed to it in the first place.

The other three agreed this before mentioning it to my son unfortunately so yes, nothing more can be done.

The Tenants have said they will amend to Inventory to be accurate, and the Landlord has agreed to do the same. Sorted.

I just advised them to keep a copy of an email that was sent to the agent.

The rent is due when the tenancy agreement says it's due and not before or after. If the rent is due on the first of the month and that day falls on a weekend (like 1st September does) then the tenancy agreement may say that rent should be paid "on the last working day of the month" or "as cleared funds before the 1st of the month" which would mean payment was due last Friday not next Monday. What does it say in the tenancy agreement about the rent due date?

AST states payments due on the 1st of each month but yes of course if it falls on a weekend then it would need to be paid on the Friday before and in this case, was paid on Thursday 30th (there was a glich, it seems with Barclays that day so it may not have got there until 31st)

Is the Landlord really a pain in the a*se for demanding rent due? If the Landlord decides to delegate rent collection to his accountant is that so bad? Although I don't approve of anyone shouting at Tenants under any circumstances.

Yes if they are demanding rent before it is due, by way of a call from the accountant and then an abusive telephone call from the LL

The Tenants can only deal direct with the agent if the tenancy has been established as a *managed* tenancy and this will be spelt out in the tenancy agreement. An awful lot of rentals are set up on a *Tenant Find* only basis. Once the Tenant has been found the agent has nothing more to do with the deal. What does it say in the tenancy agreement? If it's not managed by the agent then they can refuse to take any calls from the Tenants and they will have no option but to deal with the Landlord direct.

The agent has confirmed that they only act on a 'tenant find' basis, but want to help because it reflects on them for future rentals if the existing tenants have had a troublesome tenancy and are likely to 'warn' any prospective new tenants.

On the issue of the tenants' deposit the Landlord has a statutory obligation to give the tenants the prescribed information within 30 days of receipt of the money. Read about how it works here:

http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_ad...ection_schemes

Thanks for the link, I haven't read it yet but noted that on the AST that it states the name and address of the company that it will be registered but nothing more.

As a mother I share your good intentions to get all this sorted for your son, and you have been giving advice on what to do and what not to do. I did the same until my daughter told me to butt out, stop interfering and allow her to grow up. Don't say I haven't warned you

He wouldn't dare to at the moment, I'm still supplying the readies!

Good news this week is that it looks like a job has been secured so my bank balance will start looking healthier. First time in three years!

Thanks for your assistance.

[PlanB]

Re: New tenancy problem

No freezer supplied, agent sent £20 as a gesture (one of the group said that they could get a second hand one for that amount off a friend) and he has also said that they can amend the inventory and the landlady will too.

It looks as though this landlady is going to be a PITA as she's already had her accountant chasing rent and she has also called the lead tenant today and shouted at her! The rent isn't due until 1st September and was paid in full yesterday. (it seems there was a problem with Barclays and the payment didn't go through immediately) In view of this, there is no way I would trust her to amend the inventory so I have advised them to send written confirmation and get written confirmation back from the agent that the missing freezer has been noted.

I have also advised them to ignore any more calls from the landlady or the accountant and deal directly with the agent, who they arranged the tenancy through.

Another question please. The tenancy agreement states that the deposit is protected but should they still expect written confirmation of this too?

I thought we had problems with student lets but this is getting off to a very bad start!

Oh dear you do seem to have got off to a bad start here but I'd be lying if I didn't say it's not looking completely one-sided

Housing law isn't always black and white and most disputes are decided on reasonableness. Try looking at this objectively even though it's your son at the eye of the storm.

The Tenants told the Landlord that they could buy a second-hand freezer for £20. The Landlord has paid the Tenants the £20. Sorted. If the Tenants aren't happy with that resolution then they shouldn't have agreed to it in the first place.

The Tenants have said they will amend to Inventory to be accurate, and the Landlord has agreed to do the same. Sorted.

The rent is due when the tenancy agreement says it's due and not before or after. If the rent is due on the first of the month and that day falls on a weekend (like 1st September does) then the tenancy agreement may say that rent should be paid "on the last working day of the month" or "as cleared funds before the 1st of the month" which would mean payment was due last Friday not next Monday. What does it say in the tenancy agreement about the rent due date?

Is the Landlord really a pain in the a*se for demanding rent due? If the Landlord decides to delegate rent collection to his accountant is that so bad? Although I don't approve of anyone shouting at Tenants under any circumstances.

The Tenants can only deal direct with the agent if the tenancy has been established as a *managed* tenancy and this will be spelt out in the tenancy agreement. An awful lot of rentals are set up on a *Tenant Find* only basis. Once the Tenant has been found the agent has nothing more to do with the deal. What does it say in the tenancy agreement? If it's not managed by the agent then they can refuse to take any calls from the Tenants and they will have no option but to deal with the Landlord direct.

On the issue of the tenants' deposit the Landlord has a statutory obligation to give the tenants the prescribed information within 30 days of receipt of the money. Read about how it works here:

http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_ad...ection_schemes

As a mother I share your good intentions to get all this sorted for your son, and you have been giving advice on what to do and what not to do. I did the same until my daughter told me to butt out, stop interfering and allow her to grow up. Don't say I haven't warned you

[SXGuy]

Re: New tenancy problem

Yes as far as im aware, whoever the company is that protects the deposit, would also be giving the tennat details of how and whos protecting it. At least this is what happend with me.

[marypoppins]

Re: New tenancy problem

Hi, just a little update here.

No freezer supplied, agent sent £20 as a gesture (one of the group said that they could get a second hand one for that amount off a friend) and he has also said that they can amend the inventory and the landlady will too.

It looks as though this landlady is going to be a PITA as she's already had her accountant chasing rent and she has also called the lead tenant today and shouted at her! The rent isn't due until 1st September and was paid in full yesterday. (it seems there was a problem with Barclays and the payment didn't go through immediately) In view of this, there is no way I would trust her to amend the inventory so I have advised them to send written confirmation and get written confirmation back from the agent that the missing freezer has been noted.

I have also advised them to ignore any more calls from the landlady or the accountant and deal directly with the agent, who they arranged the tenancy through.

Another question please. The tenancy agreement states that the deposit is protected but should they still expect written confirmation of this too?

I thought we had problems with student lets but this is getting off to a very bad start!

[PlanB]

Re: New tenancy problem

I would also imagine that this is not subject to the 7 day dispute stipulation, because its clearly wrong.

I completely agree. The dispute must be raised within seven days not resolved within seven days. These things can sometimes go on for months.

[SXGuy]

Re: New tenancy problem

Just spoke to my friend whos a landlord / ex estate agent. And he informs me if the inventory says there is a Freezer, then you have a right to either demand one is fitted, or its removed from the inventory list.

So ring the agency and get this sorted. Dont take any excuses.

I would also imagine that this is not subject to the 7 day dispute stipulation, because its clearly wrong.

[marypoppins]

Re: New tenancy problem

Thanks for all that info planB, I do find it strange that the inventory isn't part of the tenancy agreement but take your point about them checking the appliances and advising the agent accordingly, should they not match.

My son does have have one of those small freezers and fridge so he's really not desperate but as you say, a considerate LL would supply one to keep them all happy. (especially when the four sharers have coughed up nearly £4k in rent and deposit!)

I have emailed the agent to this effect and he is going to contact the LL and try and sort it.

I'll post up any developments.

[PlanB]

Re: New tenancy problem

I've also spotted that they have seven working days to reject the inventory that they signed, so I've advised them to email the agent tomorrow and reject it due to the missing appliance.

I don't think they need to reject the whole inventory, they just want it amended so that it's accurate. A good inventory will list every appliance make and model so that the tenant can't do a switch. A "washing machine" is not good enough because I once had a tenant take a £500 Miele one and replace it with a rubbish one from Currys In fact there was case where the Tenant removed all the brass light switches and sockets and replaced them with plastic ones

An accurate inventory is vital for any end-of-tenancy dispute over the return of the deposit. I suggest that they double check everything on the list in case there are other amendments needed. Have they been told where their deposit has been registered yet? The Landlord has 30 days to do this.

[PlanB]

Re: New tenancy problem

I am looking for some advice regarding a tenancy that my son has just signed up for.

The inventory clearly states that there is a freezer in the house, which has turned out not to be the case. There is one small fridge and one large fridge.

The other housemates met up with the landlord to view and take possession of the keys but it wasn't spotted at the time because no one opened the appliance doors.

They have since spoken to the landlord who refuses to supply one!

I personally think that this is breach of contract but need someone to clarify this before I start shouting at the agents who were the original point of contact.

Golly, life without a freezer, where will your son keep his vodka Only joking

The Landlord is not in breach of the tenancy agreement which only says that the property must have everything in it as stated in the Inventory. It would also be reasonable for tenants to expect everything that was in the property when they originally viewed it to still be in the property when they take possession, unless they've asked for specific items to be removed or items added which should be made clear in writing in the tenancy agreement under "special conditions". Most prospective tenants wouldn't open an appliance door to check what's behind it on a first inspection, especially not a freezer for fear of defrosting everything by mistake.

Tenants should always be present at the inventory check-in and then they should sign the last page to say they agree with the contents since this is the point at which discrepancies are noted. This is usually done at the same time as handing over the keys. Most tenants are so excited or stressed out on moving day that they tend to say "Yeah Yeah Yeah whatever" to everything on the list. That is why the AST will say that the tenant has a further 7 days to record any amendments. Most inventories will note whether an appliance has been tested or not.

So unless the provision of a freezer was specifically made a condition of the rental (and noted on the rental acceptance form) then the Landlord has no legal duty to provide one. However it would be foolish of a Landlord not to oblige by getting one delivered to keep them happy, because a happy tenant is a tenant who will look after the gaff and pay their rent on time. I can understand the reluctance of the Landlord to remove one fridge to make room for a freezer because that raises a storage problem for him, and what if the next tenants want a fridge not a freezer which will mean he'll have to reverse that manoeuvre .

One easy solution is to buy one of those small freezers which fit on a work surface (or in a bedroom but freezers do tend to whirr in the night!) which only cost about £80. Since there may be four of them (I'm guessing that because of the two double beds ) twenty quid each is not too horrendous. And if course they can take it with them when they go, or sell it to the Landlord.

Here's one from Argos: http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Produc...er/4810430.htm

[SXGuy]

Re: New tenancy problem

I don't know enough about tenancy laws, someone else may. I do have a friend who is a landlord, and ex estate agent, so I can find out if no one has any info to help. Im just assuming that should the inventory check be wrong, it may cause them issues in the future and would have thought they would want to amend it.

Like if they said, the house comes with a spa, and there is no spa, when the tenancy ends, would they want you to re furnish the property with a spa, or would they accept there wasn't one? They need to at least accept that some points in the inventory are wrong, or amend them, legally I don't know where this stands, im talking morally.

As far as I know, fridges etc fall under "white goods" the definition of what those white goods are, is something im unsure of.

[marypoppins]

Re: New tenancy problem

Hi SXGuy,

Do you mean that they should have amended it and removed the freezer from the inventory?

The tenancy is also described as part furnished, which appears to be two double beds. This isn't a problem but kitchen appliances are a basic requirement unless an agreement is made prior to the signing of the tenancy.

The landlord has stated that they are not 'legally' obliged to supply a freezer.