New tenancy problem

[PlanB]

Re: New tenancy problem

I would tweak it slightly to sound more like a demand for the return of the deposit. This woman needs a forthright approach or she doesn't 'get it'. No need to be overly polite on this occasion

Tell her that the 10 day statutory time limit for return of the deposit has expired and you request the full sum to be paid into bank account no 123456789 sort code 10-11-12 with immediate effect.

Tell her if she has any reason to withhold part of the deposit she must put her reasons in writing including any receipts to justify these deductions within seven days and pay the balance into your account now.

Warn her that if the matter is not resolved by Monday 18th August you will raise a dispute with mydeposits without further reference to her as is your legal right.

I'd also call mydeposits and tell them what you've done. They will log it on their system. That way she'll flag up as an awkward customer from the start. Get your word in first.

[marypoppins]

Re: New tenancy problem

Dear LL,

As lead tenant and on behalf of XYZ, can you please advise on receipt of this email, any reason you may have for withholding our deposit?

I am sure you will appreciate that the statutory time limit of ten days has now been exceeded.

If you intend to withhold any money, please send a written breakdown explaining your reasons, itemising and detailing any financial losses you believe you have suffered. Please include copies of any relevant receipts

Yours etc....

Will that suffice PlanB?

[marypoppins]

Re: New tenancy problem

Once again thank you PlanB.

[PlanB]

Re: New tenancy problem

Where next PlanB?

She uses my deposits .

The lead tenant should raise a dispute online here http://www.mydeposits.co.uk/tenants/...ster-a-dispute


Q. My Landlord intends to make a deduction from part of my deposit but I have not received the remaining amount, what happens now?

The Landlord has 10 days to return all or part of your deposit. If you do not receive any of your deposit then you may raise a dispute for the full amount. We will request the Landlord sends all of the deposit to us. If the Landlord makes payment of any undisputed amount after 10 days but before lodging it with us, we will ask for proof that this has been done i.e. bank transfer receipt or written confirmation from you.


There is no need to have any further contact with the Landlord once a dispute has been raised.

My only advice is to keep it factual not emotional when articulating the dispute to the scheme

[marypoppins]

Re: New tenancy problem

I've just been reading a fact sheet off the CAB site about the difference between an insurance back deposit scheme and a custodial one, which has put my mind a little bit to rest.

She uses my deposits which I know doesn't hold the money but I wasn't aware that any disputed amount has to be paid by the LL to the deposit scheme in the case of a dispute, until a resolution is agreed.

[marypoppins]

Re: New tenancy problem

10 days already up!
A spreadsheet showing itemised cleaning was emailed to the LL which she rejected because it was on an excel spreadsheet!

Another one was written out and she would only accept by post! It has been posted this week.

Irrespective of this, we can't see why she won't discuss any deductions she is considering as the itemised bill isn't going to make the house any cleaner/dirtier than when the checkout inspection was done.

When the checkout was done she was finding 'invisible' dust in places and insisted that the tenants did further cleaning (which they did to keep the peace) and she was of the opinion that their standards were not up to hers, despite them referring to the check in inventory every time she questioned something and she insisted that only her opinion counted! Unfortunately the check in company has gone bust so we can't go back to them, not that I think this would have made any difference.

They have many photo's which I have seen and it was in a much better condition than when they moved in, they also recorded some of the meeting and she was very difficult to deal with and shouted at them like they were 5 year olds!

She also said that they should have allowed a full day for the checkout to be done when one of the tenants questioned how much longer she planned to be there because they needed to be elsewhere and pointed out that she had been an hour late!

Where next PlanB?

[marypoppins]

Re: New tenancy problem

Ok PlanB, I hear what you're saying.

I'll be back after 10 days!

[PlanB]

Re: New tenancy problem

On the one hand I wonder whether we should leave it until she has considered any deductions but on the other hand, I don't want her to think that she can just take money that is unjustified.

I wouldn't do anything until Day 10 when the deposit should be paid or any issues the Landlord wishes to dispute will be raised and the balance returned. Until then all you can do is anticipate what she might do, but I'm not sure whether it's wise to go on the offensive before then in case that only provokes her into being even more intransigent than she already is (if that's possible!). In short don't pick a fight with her now.

Whatever email/letter goes to the Landlord must come from the Tenants themselves not you unless they nominate you as their official 'agent' which is a bit cumbersome. If your son is the Lead Tenant on the AST then the letter should come from him. The arbitration service (used by the deposit holder) will only deal with the Lead Tenant. A letter from the Lead Tenant's Mummy will be ignored since you weren't there at the check-out (or check-in) so have no first-hand knowledge of what was said between the parties (hearsay). Anything written to the Landlady has the potential to end up in front of the arbitrator including your emails. She could use this against the Tenants.

The Landlady has asked for an itemised cleaning bill because she can according to the tenancy agreement. You can't really criticize her for that.

I take your point about the Schedule of Condition being carried out by her and not a third party. There was nothing to stop the Tenants having their own inventory carried out so if there is a dispute they could present it to the arbitrator and ask for the Landlady to pay for its cost if they win the argument. The tenancy agreement should say who pays for the end of term check-out. Mine always say the Tenant should pay which on reflection is a bit unfair. But by doing that I put the ball in the Tenant's court to chose who they want to do it and I stand by their decision. That way I can't be accuse of not being objective.

The arbitrator will only look at the facts and not opinion. You can't really complain that she didn't give a rent reduction when the builders were in if you never asked for one at the time. Using it as a stick to beat her with now may be fruitless.

How do the other Tenants feel about all this? If your son is a lone voice he may have to go with the majority and agree with whatever they're happy to agree if he's outnumbered. The arbitrator may take a view on only one dissatisfaction against three content Tenants.

I know the deposit for your son was paid with your money but in legal terms it's his quarrel not yours. If it's any consolation I've never got back any money I've stumped up for my daughter's deposits over the years because she can't be bothered to fight for it since it's not her money

[marypoppins]

Re: New tenancy problem

Hi PlanB,

Would you mind giving the attached a once over please when you have a minute or two?

On the one hand I wonder whether we should leave it until she has considered any deductions but on the other hand, I don't want her to think that she can just take money that is unjustified.

There's no internet connection at the new house atm so I'm doing this on behalf of the guys.

I hope I've attached it ok, it's been a long time since I've done this!

[marypoppins]

Re: New tenancy problem

She's just being plain awkward for the sake of it. Who needs a breakdown of what was cleaned if she's got a pair of eyes to see it for herself. Does it matter whether they used Domestos or Sainsbury's own brand bleach down the toilet? And does she want to know whether the floors were cleaned with a Dyson or an Electrolux vacuum cleaner?

My thoughts exactly!

However you do say that only the communal areas were professionally cleaned so I'm guessing that didn't include the bedrooms in which case she may have those rooms professionally cleaned herself and deduct that cost from the deposit which would not be unreasonable.

They'd still got their belongings in their bedrooms on the day the clean was done but the house is more or less unfurnished so they only had a bed to move and clean under and around the bedrooms.

I'm beginning to dislike her as much as you do. Still it's all over now

'Dislike' is very mild for this bitch! But I believe that what comes around goes around!

[PlanB]

Re: New tenancy problem

She wasn't impressed with the 'professional' clean (cost £300 for communal areas only) and despite a receipt being produced, she has insisted they obtain a receipt showing a breakdown of what was done. . .

. . . she said that she will sort out whatever deductions she deems fit, once she is in receipt of the itemised cleaning bill..

She's just being plain awkward for the sake of it. Who needs a breakdown of what was cleaned if she's got a pair of eyes to see it for herself. Does it matter whether they used Domestos or Sainsbury's own brand bleach down the toilet? And does she want to know whether the floors were cleaned with a Dyson or an Electrolux vacuum cleaner?

However you do say that only the communal areas were professionally cleaned so I'm guessing that didn't include the bedrooms in which case she may have those rooms professionally cleaned herself and deduct that cost from the deposit which would not be unreasonable.

I'm beginning to dislike her as much as you do. Still it's all over now

[marypoppins]

Re: New tenancy problem

Thank you PlanB

Just a brief update, she turned up 45 mins late, with no explanation or apology!

She toured the house, questioning various things in each room which she wasn't happy with but they pointed out that the check in inventory noted the same things so they couldn't be held responsible and she couldn't argue with that.

She asked what the carpets had been cleaned with (a vax done by the tenants) and nothing more was said.

She wasn't impressed with the 'professional' clean (cost £300 for communal areas only) and despite a receipt being produced, she has insisted they obtain a receipt showing a breakdown of what was done. It does ask for an itemised receipt on the AST so they can't object to this and have been in touch with the company to sort it.

My son had arranged the cleaning company, having used them at his last house and they did a fantastic job, unfortunately if turned out to be a different company (he wasn't there when it was done) and the job wasn't as good as it should have been so this will somehow have to be addressed. In hindsight, they should have asked her for a recommendation!

I can't see the point of getting an itemised receipt now, or what difference this will make when she has already done the inspection.

She wasn't happy about the windows, they were smeared. Again a 'professional' job done costing £30!

She wanted replacement curtain hooks for the curtains in my sons room but backed down after he pointed out that his curtains weren't up at his window and had to sort them himself when he moved in. (this was stated in the inventory)

A light had gone in the extractor fan in the kitchen, it has never worked but wasn't mentioned in the inventory either way. I don't suppose a new bulb will cost a fortune.

As it stands, she said that she will sort out whatever deductions she deems fit, once she is in receipt of the itemised cleaning bill.

Hmm, not quite as brief but that's it, more or less!

Lots of photographs taken and of the meters too.

[PlanB]

Re: New tenancy problem

You're nearly there!

I have a feeling she'll argue about the carpet cleaning but back down when your son and his mates provide her with all those photos. The only other things she could raise are provable breakages such as cupboard door handles or shower curtains etc. They'd be entitled to argue 'wear and tear' on pretty much everything else such as discoloured grouting. Floor scratches and coffee ring marks can be an issue if the professional clean can't remove them. Cigarette burns are the only other thing I've had to argue.

Make sure they take a note of the utility meter readings using a digital camera.

They should get back the deposit in 10 days or a letter explaining any reason to withhold part of it. Keep us posted.

If she deducts anything from the deposit then raise a complaint with the scheme who's holding it or the insurance company who's insured it (if she's using mydeposits).

[marypoppins]

Re: New tenancy problem

The rent was proven with bank statements PlanB so no lies were made.

They didn't ask about a rent rebate and I agree that they should have but she was so unapproachable, it took ages to get a mere £40 for the canvas wardrobe that the builders wrecked!

Tomorrow is check out day so will be back to update. They have had the house professionally cleaned including a steam clean of the oven, curtains dry cleaned, garden tidied which they have kept tidy throughout their stay. Drains, gutters and waste pipes cleaned with drain cleaner and bleached areas where appropriate.

But they haven't had the carpets cleaned due to the mess the builders made on them, they did point this out at the time and she agreed that they didn't have to do this, but she has now denied saying it! However they have photo's of the mess the builders made so we will see what happens.

A checkout inventory is not done by the check in company, she will do it herself based on the check in one, which will probably work in the tenants favour because it doesn't show the state of the house in a very good light!

Roll on tomorrow.

[PlanB]

Re: New tenancy problem

I do take your point about the agent giving a reference, however he does know the landlady and the problems she has caused throughout the tenancy and at the end of the day, he would have known if there had been a problem with rent not being paid because he would have had to find some new tenants for her.

Not necessarily. She may have decided to use another agency if there were rent issues with the Tenants.

The agent had no knowledge or evidence of the rent being paid on time so he lied in that reference.

it implies that there has been problems with the tenants which is very unfair when the friction that has been caused has mostly been down to them living in a building site for several weeks throughout the 12 months they have been there and simply getting fed up with it.

Did they ask for a rent rebate for the inconvenience like I suggested?