Getting no-where with Halifax mortgage complaint

[SA Gold]

Re: Getting no-where with Halifax mortgage complaint

Good. The quicker you get your complaint of that annoying woman's desk the better.

Phew, thats good to hear!

The biggest flaw in the FOS system is the adjudicators have too much personal input into their decisions. They express opinions rather than factual assessments based on the evidence. Their reports are always waffle to justify their stance. Because they make them personal they take it personally when you don't agree, and then dig their heels in.

Agreed. Comments like "I wouldn't expect". Um, im sorry, but going back to my Car check anaology. If it said "we will check the spare wheel" and its missing. What would her response be - You had the chance for a more expense check. Sorry, can't accept that.

Your letter is fine. Later on you can tell the Ombudsman that your photographs were dismissed because they weren't date specific but the adjudicator never asked you for the date. And they were also dismissed without cross-checking the condition of the property with the surveyor's photographs. One of your arguments was that the surveyor couldn't have failed to see the roof problem and should have included it in his report with a recommendation for further investigation (another survey) if appropriate.

If this were in court you would have asked to see the surveyor's original notes (or transcript of his dictaphone-type tape).

Call the FOS and ask them to tell you when your complaint reaches an Ombudsman because you will have some more research to add before he/she makes the final Decision. I'm not sure what but we'll think of something.

Will do.

Update (before i had chance to call them)

Dear SA Gold

your complaint about Bank of Scotland plc (trading as Halifax)

I sent you my view of your complaint recently.

an ombudsman will review your complaint

Because you did not agree, an ombudsman will review your complaint and make a final decision. If the ombudsman’s conclusions are different to mine, they will explain why and let you reply before they give you their decision.
We should already have all the information the ombudsman needs to reach a decision. But if we need anything more from you, we will let you know.

what you need to do now

If you have any further points or information you want the ombudsman to consider, please send these to me by 5 November 2013. Your complaint will then be allocated to an ombudsman, who will issue a final decision.

Please get in touch if you have any questions.

Yours sincerely,

[SA Gold]

Re: Getting no-where with Halifax mortgage complaint

Morning,

Any suggestions on what to go back (further ammunition) to the Ombudsman with?

Thanks

SA

[SA Gold]

Re: Getting no-where with Halifax mortgage complaint

Morning,

Sorry to nag but does anyone have any suggestions on what to go back (further ammunition) to the Ombudsman with? I just thought if they receive a reply before the 5th then they may take more time to decide I am right

Thanks

SA

[IF]

Re: Getting no-where with Halifax mortgage complaint

You're not nagging SA Gold, wish I could help. Do send planB a PM and help will be on it's way

[SA Gold]

Re: Getting no-where with Halifax mortgage complaint

You're not nagging SA Gold, wish I could help. Do send planB a PM and help will be on it's way

Thanks IF. Will do.

Cheers
SA

[PlanB]

Re: Getting no-where with Halifax mortgage complaint

You're not nagging SA Gold, wish I could help. Do send planB a PM and help will be on it's way

Oh yes he is nagging

The FOS have given you until 5th November to do what? To tell the Adjudicator what you don't like about her decision. If you don't reply what will happen ? Will your complaint be rejected by an Ombudsman if you don't reply to the Adjudicator? No it won't. The Ombudsman will go back to square one and review all the evidence on the table.

I'll be back to give you more advice (just) before 5th November but before then I have three families who will be repossessed and evicted from their homes if I don't devote my time and energy to them. I'll probably get banned for saying that but I see my job (as a volunteer) is to encourage posters to think for themselves and hopefully empower them to handle situations for themselves. So if you've got any ideas as to how to progress your case please post them up and I'll add my thoughts.

[SA Gold]

Re: Getting no-where with Halifax mortgage complaint

Hi PlanB,
Sorry, i had no idea. Of course what you are dealing with is more important. I don't know how the FOS deal with things so glad you do. I recall you saying we could think up something to help our side of the story without the adjucticator loosing face. I'll have a think and post back.
Thanks for all your help to date.

Kind regards
SA

[PlanB]

Re: Getting no-where with Halifax mortgage complaint

Update
Dear SA Gold I sent you my view of your complaint recently. . . . . Because you did not agree, an ombudsman will review your complaint and make a final decision. If the ombudsman’s conclusions are different to mine, they will explain why and let you reply before they give you their decision.

If you have any further points or information you want the ombudsman to consider, please send these to me by 5 November 2013 . . .

You're panicking about a false deadline. What happens next is the Adjudicator sends the case to the Ombudsman Admin Team who place it in the queue for a relevant Ombudsman. The cases are usually allocated on a 'subject specific' basis. It'll sit in the queue for at least three months, usually six months, and often twelve months. Once you reach the front of the queue you will get a letter telling you your complaint is about to be allocated and asking you if you have anything more to add for the Ombudsman to consider.

The Adjudicator sort of made that clear in her letter albeit she sent out the signal that 5th November was your last chance to submit further information. I suspect this is because she feels threatened by your persistence and the fact that you've pointed out a few procedural errors on her side. She clearly wants to know what else you've got up your sleeve so she can try to shoot it down in flames before it reaches an Ombudsman. She has an ego problem if you ask me.

Send her a one-liner reminding her that you emailed her your request to refer your complaint to the Ombudsman last month and you would appreciate it if there was no further delay.

I doubt you'll hear anything more until after Christmas

[SA Gold]

Re: Getting no-where with Halifax mortgage complaint

Hi PlanB,
Thanks for posting. I did log in earlier on and re-read the whole thread. I racked my brains if there was any i could add but felt you had done such a great job with the letters that everything had been covered. I didn't post as there was nothing to add.

Thanks for the explanation on what will happen next. I guess its just a waiting game. I'll drop "Ego Woman" a reminder email tomorrow and post back when the Ombudsman get hold of it.

Thanks for all your help.

Kind regards,
SA

[PlanB]

Re: Getting no-where with Halifax mortgage complaint

Hi PlanB, Thanks for posting. . . . I racked my brains if there was any i could add but felt you had done such a great job with the letters that everything had been covered.

Thanks for all your help.

You're just saying that to make me feel bad for snapping at you a few days ago when I was feeling the pressure of juggling three repossessions

[SA Gold]

Re: Getting no-where with Halifax mortgage complaint

You're just saying that to make me feel bad for snapping at you a few days ago when I was feeling the pressure of juggling three repossessions

Nope. I am thanking you for doing a splendid job.

[SA Gold]

Re: Getting no-where with Halifax mortgage complaint

Afternoon,

Just received a rejection letter:

* Mr Ombudsman - You say you have reviewed all the evidence - would this include photos from Colleys of the effected area your adjudicator asked me for?

[SA Gold]

Re: Getting no-where with Halifax mortgage complaint

Afternoon,
I've been racking my brains on this and don't think i have anything to add to <cough> my case and feel i am getting a bit out of my depth trying to argue my point/deal with this. The Ombudsman has accepted the point about the roof void inspection but then de-cried it by saying there were further comments on the site which should have helped towards deciding on what inspection to have. My original point stands that if it was listed; if it wasn't checked, perhaps part of their process should be to advise of work not carried out. The same way they advised of checking for suitable guarantees for the Windows and central heating system.

I've dug out bank statements to confirm Halifax (and not those fucking clowns at C0lleys) were paid so not sure if this means i've hit a brick wall with all this?

The fact the form is a simple agree: yes/no suggests FOS have now officially wiped their hands of it and that if i don't agree its up to me to take it any further.

Is this the end of the road, or is it worth pushing any further? I guess i would be looking at the cost of the roof repairs at a minimum to recover so not sure how much it would cost to engage with someone in an attempt to get this.

Thanks for reading.

SA

[PlanB]

Re: Getting no-where with Halifax mortgage complaint

The Ombudsman has accepted the point about the roof void inspection but then de-cried it by saying there were further comments on the site which should have helped towards deciding on what inspection to have. My original point stands that if it was listed; if it wasn't checked, perhaps part of their process should be to advise of work not carried out.

I've dug out bank statements to confirm Halifax (and not those fucking clowns at C0lleys) were paid so not sure if this means i've hit a brick wall with all this?

. . . . Is this the end of the road, or is it worth pushing any further? I guess i would be looking at the cost of the roof repairs at a minimum to recover so not sure how much it would cost to engage with someone in an attempt to get this.

I didn't reply to your thread the minute you posted the Ombudsman Decision because I wanted to take time to think (and calm down ).

I agree with you that the Ombudsman accepts your point that the roof inspection wasn't carried out properly but then decides to put it in the context of the overall website message which I think is an unfair supposition that you would have read any more than necessary.

He also relies on the website definition of the roof void inspection which says it'll be done using "head and shoulders only" (so only a cursory glance) but makes no mention of the photos which support your argument that there was plenty of other evidence to alert the surveyor to a roof leak. In fact he makes no reference to the photos whatsoever even though the Adjudicator asked to see them as evidence.

I'm afraid I do agree with him that the survey was only for the benefit of the lender despite the fact you sponsored the cost of it. Early on in the thread I said that if the surveyor got it wrong then it should be the Halifax to complain to Colleys not you because you had no contract with the surveyor. But I was hoping that the FOS would use the "what is reasonable for a consumer to have expected in this situation" approach which they can do so well at times unlike a court which sticks to black and white evidence only.

This begs the question why did the Halifax send you the document if you're expected to ignore it. I expect the Halifax would say that's because you have the right to know what they have based their lending decision on because sometimes they don't lend the full amount or require a 'retention' of funds until remedial work is carried out. There have also been a number of cases where borrowers have sued lenders whose surveyors have overvalued their properties which they only find out when they come to sell, so lenders tend to tell you upfront how they got to the decision.

Is this the end of the road? My honest answer is "yes" because I don't see a court deciding anything different. I do think you should reject the Ombudsman's decision and consider a complaint on "Service Levels" through the Independent Assessor since he disregarded your photo evidence in his report (and possibly other bits and bobs). The IA can award compensation for poor service levels. Give it some thought before you go down that route. You've got three months to do this following a complaint to the FOS first:

http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.u..._reference.htm

[PlanB]

Re: Getting no-where with Halifax mortgage complaint

Now let me give you my personal view with a little bit of Devil's Advocate thrown into the mix. I'm doing this to make you feel better about your house purchase and hopefully help you to see the bigger picture.

You bought a repossession for a bit below market value because they wanted a quick sale. You then got the agreed price reduced further because of some defects. The Halifax were happy to lend the full mortgage you requested based on the surveyor's valuation. Therefore the house must have been worth what you paid for it at the time including the dodgy roof/ceiling.

Ask yourself whether you would have cancelled the purchase if you had known that there would be £1k of work to be done on the roof/ceiling. Probably not. From what you say the house was in a poor condition which is why you still haven't moved into it a year after buying it. There were lots of things which needed fixing up first.

We've argued that the surveyor could hardly have missed the water stain on the ceiling, but the same could be said of you since you visited the house before buying it. I expect a court would tell you caveat emptor or "let the buyer beware" and reject your claim outright with case law to back this up:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/caveat_emptor

So just remind yourself how excited and happy you were to bag the property which you said was to be your "home" not any old house to make a profit in your original thread.

http://forums.all-about-debt.co.uk/s...l=1#post247056


Then cheer yourself up by knowing that the Halifax had to pay £500 to the FOS to carry out the investigation so in some ways you've got your revenge. You may still get comp from the FOS for poor service levels too.